Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #6 *Arrests*

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Right, that would pertain to all evidence in which DNA testing would be performed. Am I misunderstanding your point? Apologies if so.
No, no problem at all. And no apology necessary, but thank you just the same! It just seemed that the statement was oddly worded. Not yours…. the article. And it could well be boilerplate. I don’t read these things everyday. And with an apparent gag order in the case was hunting and pecking for any small morsel…..

I thought it might have been more precise to have used terms such as ‘any entire biological sample’ - or ‘an entire biological sample’? To allow for multiple samples. It is probably simply my obtuse way of reading it. MOO
 
Yes, but the larger point is both her children changed their names to Adams. Were both family names tainted? Or was TA the driving force behind both? IMO, this demonstrates more of her controlling manipulation and narcissism. Further, it’s the motive behind the murders. She knows best and no one will stand in her way.
My thought, TA tends to poison the kids relationships with the parent, whether it be her kids and the ex spouse, or the grandchildren. She wants to be their sole influence. She seems to be extremely manipulative and controlling. How many times has she been married?
 
Thank you for posting this PommyMommy….

I also note in that article particular mention that prosecution efforts are not to consume in its entirety a certain biological sample when conducting DNA testing. Wonder what that sample pertains too? MOO
In a nutshell, the Defense filed a Discovery Motion and Court issued an Order but not before each opposed the language referencing testing evidence so the Court reconsidered and revised the language to what OP quotes in the article. Court also revised the defense Motion so both the Motion and Order now match. It's confusing so understandable that MSM wasn't clear. This is the language that was struck from the Order:
1719227578121.png
Also, this is not referring to any specific biological sampling-- it's just a preliminary discovery Order.

 
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In a nutshell, the Defense filed a Discovery Motion and Court issued an Order but not before each opposed the language referencing testing evidence so the Court reconsidered and revised the language to what OP quotes in the article. Court also revised the defense Motion so both the Motion and Order now match. It's confusing so understandable that MSM wasn't clear. This is the language that was struck from the Order:
View attachment 512734
Also, this is not referring to any specific biological sampling-- it's just a preliminary discovery Order.

Thank you Seattle1 for the insight and clarification!
And FWIW I promise that I did not contact the court and ask them to insert the word ‘any’ to IMO clarify the confusing statement. MOO
 
Yes, but the larger point is both her children changed their names to Adams. Were both family names tainted? Or was TA the driving force behind both? IMO, this demonstrates more of her controlling manipulation and narcissism. Further, it’s the motive behind the murders. She knows best and no one will stand in her way.
Agree. TAs narcissism. I assume she was preparing to change Wranglers kids names too.
I really do wonder how all TAs kids are getting by. They each have enough individual trauma IMHO, maybe they are getting closer and closer with all this. Who knows...
 
My thought, TA tends to poison the kids relationships with the parent, whether it be her kids and the ex spouse, or the grandchildren. She wants to be their sole influence. She seems to be extremely manipulative and controlling. How many times has she been married?
I think I remember 5.
Ha
But maybe I'm thinking Lori Vallow.
Ha.
I'll be back!!
 
Dug a little, so possibly 3? I found her as also a Dobson, Herald and, of course, Rickman. Not quite as many as Elizabeth Taylor, lol.
I thought there was a McLendon (sp?) in there somewhere as well. Or maybe that was just a paternity thing?

I would think after marriage #2 you would just stick with your maiden name. Elizabeth Taylor & Zsa Zsa Gabor did and they should know. Seems like it would save on paperwork.
 
Thank you for posting this PommyMommy….

I also note in that article particular mention that prosecution efforts are not to consume in its entirety a certain biological sample when conducting DNA testing. Wonder what that sample pertains too? MOO
Could be anything minute. In the Kelsey Berreth case it was a small tooth fragment recovered from the burn pit. :(

JMO
 
I thought there was a McLendon (sp?) in there somewhere as well. Or maybe that was just a paternity thing?

I would think after marriage #2 you would just stick with your maiden name. Elizabeth Taylor & Zsa Zsa Gabor did and they should know. Seems like it would save on paperwork.

McLendon was paternity.
 

Oklahoma Preliminary Hearing Discovery​

After the arraignment, defense counsel can request preliminary hearing discovery from the district attorney's office. The discovery a defendant is entitled to receive prior to the Preliminary Hearing is significantly less than the discovery a defendant receives prior to trial. Technically a defendant is not entitled to any discovery prior to the preliminary hearing. However, if the state does not make the law enforcement reports available for inspection at least 5 days prior to the preliminary hearing, than the magistrate can not stop the preliminary hearing once a determination has been made that probable cause exists. (See Oklahoma Statutes Title 22 Section 258 paragraph 6).

In practice every district attorney that I am aware of provides copies of the police reports prior to the preliminary hearing, for a price. Sometimes district attorneys will provide copies of photographs and interviews to a defendant prior to the preliminary hearing, but they are not required to do so.


I'm finding much of this very interesting: OK Statute does not require the Prosecution to provide copies of Discovery to the defense for the preliminary hearing, but only provides for the Prosecution to "make discovery available" for inspection by defense counsel, hence for a price noted above!

Also finding the provision that Discovery for the prelim does not include any physical evidence which may exist at the time, extremely unique to OK. For example, in addition to written or recorded statements of the accused, I generally find most states will call for any evidence that exists to be discovered to the defense as soon as practicable, but not later than a defined number of calendar days (i.e., such as 21 days), after the defendant’s first appearance, at the time of or following the filing of charges.

In other words, it appears that other than making the law enforcement reports available for inspection at least 5 days prior to the preliminary hearing, OK is satisfied with the prosecution handing over only up to what is necessary to establish probable cause--and just sit on the rest!
Perhaps the intent here is to save the evidence for trial and prevent any more evidence than necessary to exist in the hands and minds of the public while the defendant awaits trial.

Given the parties have nine (9) months from the initial appearance of the defendant to set the preliminary hearing, perhaps this preserves the defendants right to a panel of impartial jurors. Nonetheless, I hope we don't have to wait 9 months to learn of the details surrounding the murder of our victims. MOO



Preliminary Hearings are somewhat like mini trials and are not meant to have all of the prosecution's evidence revealed.

In these big cases the discovery process can take over a year. Both sides are gathering evidence after arrest ..... the prosecution still continues gathering their evidence while the defense starts their own investigation.

The defense must also turn over evidence to the prosecution.
 

Preliminary Hearings are somewhat like mini trials and are not meant to have all of the prosecution's evidence revealed.

In these big cases the discovery process can take over a year. Both sides are gathering evidence after arrest ..... the prosecution still continues gathering their evidence while the defense starts their own investigation.

The defense must also turn over evidence to the prosecution.
I believe this is going to be one long, nasty, finger pointing case. I wonder who or how many will flip for a deal?

MOO
 
I believe this is going to be one long, nasty, finger pointing case. I wonder who or how many will flip for a deal?

MOO

Grice & Adams confessed so if anyone pleads and turns State's evidence at trial it would be these 2.

However, they could have 2nd thoughts and have their attorneys backtrack their statements. Considering they were recorded they would need their confessions thrown out because if a jury sees these confessions it will be impossible to explain them away.

2 Cents
 
Grice & Adams confessed so if anyone pleads and turns State's evidence at trial it would be these 2.

However, they could have 2nd thoughts and have their attorneys backtrack their statements. Considering they were recorded they would need their confessions thrown out because if a jury sees these confessions it will be impossible to explain them away.

2 Cents
I agree, but I think their motives for doing so will differ a bit.

I think Tifany will do whatever is best for Tifany. I don't think she has any intention of taking the blame to spare the others in any way, but she will most certainly not hesitate to throw them to the wolves if it serves her to do so. She is concerned about herself and no one else.

I think Grice seems to have realized just how badly he screwed up his life by joining this group of misfits and may have no real interest in maintaining a united front for that reason. I think he'll do whatever his lawyers tell him to do and take a deal that gives him some hope of maintaining a relationship with his kids (however unrealistic that might be). The only wild card with him is if he feels that TC & Cole pose a real threat to him if he breaks with the pack. He clearly is a follower/wannabe type and might be more afraid of them than anything else - and given what he's seen first hand, he might not be wrong.
 
I thought there was a McLendon (sp?) in there somewhere as well. Or maybe that was just a paternity thing?

I would think after marriage #2 you would just stick with your maiden name. Elizabeth Taylor & Zsa Zsa Gabor did and they should know. Seems like it would save on paperwork.
I know, right? If she wasn’t headed to the pokey for life, she was young enough to get a few more weddings under her belt. Cullum is no prize, but he was probably going to be #4.
 
I agree, but I think their motives for doing so will differ a bit.

I think Tifany will do whatever is best for Tifany. I don't think she has any intention of taking the blame to spare the others in any way, but she will most certainly not hesitate to throw them to the wolves if it serves her to do so. She is concerned about herself and no one else.

I think Grice seems to have realized just how badly he screwed up his life by joining this group of misfits and may have no real interest in maintaining a united front for that reason. I think he'll do whatever his lawyers tell him to do and take a deal that gives him some hope of maintaining a relationship with his kids (however unrealistic that might be). The only wild card with him is if he feels that TC & Cole pose a real threat to him if he breaks with the pack. He clearly is a follower/wannabe type and might be more afraid of them than anything else - and given what he's seen first hand, he might not be wrong.

Grice has nothing to worry about because I believe the 5 of them will continue to be housed separately when they get into the State Prison system. No chance to take revenge or plot prison escapes.

If Tifany is negotiating a plea deal she has already thrown her co-defendants to the wolves. To get a plea you have to be truthful and prosecutors can tell if your story is matching up to the evidence.

Not realistic for Tifany to say she did the crime alone because there is overwhelming evidence that the 4 others were involved in some way.

It is in her best interest to be truthful about her co-defendant's participation if she really is going to negotiate a plea deal for herself.

2 Cents
 
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I agree, but I think their motives for doing so will differ a bit.

I think Tifany will do whatever is best for Tifany. I don't think she has any intention of taking the blame to spare the others in any way, but she will most certainly not hesitate to throw them to the wolves if it serves her to do so. She is concerned about herself and no one else.

I think Grice seems to have realized just how badly he screwed up his life by joining this group of misfits and may have no real interest in maintaining a united front for that reason. I think he'll do whatever his lawyers tell him to do and take a deal that gives him some hope of maintaining a relationship with his kids (however unrealistic that might be). The only wild card with him is if he feels that TC & Cole pose a real threat to him if he breaks with the pack. He clearly is a follower/wannabe type and might be more afraid of them than anything else - and given what he's seen first hand, he might not be wrong.
I almost think Grice was such a follower that he may have been the one to do the dirty work, just to get their approval. He’s so much younger and probably not the sharpest pencil. He was injured at the time the others were arrested. He was asking about DNA and leaving the country. I would almost bet that he is going to get thrown under the bus.
 
I almost think Grice was such a follower that he may have been the one to do the dirty work, just to get their approval. He’s so much younger and probably not the sharpest pencil. He was injured at the time the others were arrested. He was asking about DNA and leaving the country. I would almost bet that he is going to get thrown under the bus.

How was he injured?
 

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