MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #16

[OldCop]

We always seem to be going back to Chloe. It’s hard to look at the injuries to JOK’s arm without thinking of her.
I have revisited Nicole Albert’s testimony wherein she said the following:
Nicole Albert said the dog had been up in their bedroom but Brian Albert let her out to go to the bathroom soon after arriving home. The backyard was fenced in, she said.
After that, she said Brian Albert brought the dog back upstairs.

Karen Read trial: Owners of home where John O'Keefe was found testify

The Canton, Massachusetts, couple who owned the home at the center of the Karen Read murder trial took the stand Friday. Brian and Nicole Albert have been the subject of intense public speculation for months — while prosecutors say Read killed her boyfriend, Boston Police Officer John O’Keefe...

www.nbcboston.com

Chloe was known to be an aggressive dog who had attacked neighbors of the Alberts in the past and did not like strangers..
So, after reviewing Nicole’s testimony, that tells me BA let the dog out at just about the exact time JOK was walking up to the house.
Did JOK walk in the front door as BA was bringing Chloe down from upstairs?
Did Chloe come in from the back as JOK was coming in the front?
Was the side gate from the backyard open? The side gate that leads to the area where JOK was found?
Mention has been made of the basement with the bulkhead that leads to the backyard; the basement with the replaced floor, replaced bulkhead door, and the home gym that was down there. If BA brought Chloe down from the second floor to go out, would he then bring him down another set of stairs to the basement to let her out that way? I’m sure there was at least one door from the first floor that opened to the back yard. Was he afraid to bring Chloe through the house while everyone was there? Or did he bring JOK into the basement through the bulkhead from the backyard after JOK was attacked by Chloe to check his injuries?
JOK was reportedly inebriated. Did he fall and hit his head in the basement? Did Chloe jump him and he fell back hitting his head?
If JOK walked up the front steps, down the basement steps, and brought up the bulkhead steps, wouldn’t that count as the 3 flights of stairs that JOK’s health app reported?
We will never know because the bulkhead doors were replaced, the floor was removed, and Chloe has moved on to a new life in idyllic Vermont.

 

[shotgun09]

We always seem to be going back to Chloe. It’s hard to look at the injuries to JOK’s arm without thinking of her.
I have revisited Nicole Albert’s testimony wherein she said the following:
Nicole Albert said the dog had been up in their bedroom but Brian Albert let her out to go to the bathroom soon after arriving home. The backyard was fenced in, she said.
After that, she said Brian Albert brought the dog back upstairs.

Karen Read trial: Owners of home where John O'Keefe was found testify

The Canton, Massachusetts, couple who owned the home at the center of the Karen Read murder trial took the stand Friday. Brian and Nicole Albert have been the subject of intense public speculation for months — while prosecutors say Read killed her boyfriend, Boston Police Officer John O’Keefe...

www.nbcboston.com

Chloe was known to be an aggressive dog who had attacked neighbors of the Alberts in the past and did not like strangers..
So, after reviewing Nicole’s testimony, that tells me BA let the dog out at just about the exact time JOK was walking up to the house.
Did JOK walk in the front door as BA was bringing Chloe down from upstairs?
Did Chloe come in from the back as JOK was coming in the front?
Was the side gate from the backyard open? The side gate that leads to the area where JOK was found?
Mention has been made of the basement with the bulkhead that leads to the backyard; the basement with the replaced floor, replaced bulkhead door, and the home gym that was down there. If BA brought Chloe down from the second floor to go out, would he then bring him down another set of stairs to the basement to let her out that way? I’m sure there was at least one door from the first floor that opened to the back yard. Was he afraid to bring Chloe through the house while everyone was there? Or did he bring JOK into the basement through the bulkhead from the backyard after JOK was attacked by Chloe to check his injuries?
JOK was reportedly inebriated. Did he fall and hit his head in the basement? Did Chloe jump him and he fell back hitting his head?
If JOK walked up the front steps, down the basement steps, and brought up the bulkhead steps, wouldn’t that count as the 3 flights of stairs that JOK’s health app reported?
We will never know because the bulkhead doors were replaced, the floor was removed, and Chloe has moved on to a new life in idyllic Vermont.

Isn't that something !!??? If only there was an Investigator, who would question witnesses who may have been present during such time. Why, they may have been able to subpoena phones? Oh, That's right. The DA put a kabosh on that stuff, didn't you, Mr Morrisey?

We see you......

 

[Trebor5591]

Who hasn't said that they hate someone when angry?

Most people, I would imagine, would not say they hate a loved one, even if they are angry. If they do, they are not the kind of person you want a relationship with. IMO.

 

[Betty P]

This is the first trial I watched where grounds for an objection weren't required or a sustained objection was not explained, leaving jurors to just assume that the question was improper or worse, when it could simply have been that it had already been asked and answered. It really does not seem ethical!

IMO MOO

I haven't been following this trial closely, so I'm trying to catch up. It's these unusual things that the prosecutor and judge did that really bother me. When trials are watched by millions and closely scrutinized and discussed, its unusual to see the court and prosecution break rules and do suspicious things. And I see there are a lot of suspicious things.

 

[HarmonyE.]

We always seem to be going back to Chloe. It’s hard to look at the injuries to JOK’s arm without thinking of her.
I have revisited Nicole Albert’s testimony wherein she said the following:
Nicole Albert said the dog had been up in their bedroom but Brian Albert let her out to go to the bathroom soon after arriving home. The backyard was fenced in, she said.
After that, she said Brian Albert brought the dog back upstairs.

Karen Read trial: Owners of home where John O'Keefe was found testify

The Canton, Massachusetts, couple who owned the home at the center of the Karen Read murder trial took the stand Friday. Brian and Nicole Albert have been the subject of intense public speculation for months — while prosecutors say Read killed her boyfriend, Boston Police Officer John O’Keefe...

www.nbcboston.com

Chloe was known to be an aggressive dog who had attacked neighbors of the Alberts in the past and did not like strangers..
So, after reviewing Nicole’s testimony, that tells me BA let the dog out at just about the exact time JOK was walking up to the house.
Did JOK walk in the front door as BA was bringing Chloe down from upstairs?
Did Chloe come in from the back as JOK was coming in the front?
Was the side gate from the backyard open? The side gate that leads to the area where JOK was found?
Mention has been made of the basement with the bulkhead that leads to the backyard; the basement with the replaced floor, replaced bulkhead door, and the home gym that was down there. If BA brought Chloe down from the second floor to go out, would he then bring him down another set of stairs to the basement to let her out that way? I’m sure there was at least one door from the first floor that opened to the back yard. Was he afraid to bring Chloe through the house while everyone was there? Or did he bring JOK into the basement through the bulkhead from the backyard after JOK was attacked by Chloe to check his injuries?
JOK was reportedly inebriated. Did he fall and hit his head in the basement? Did Chloe jump him and he fell back hitting his head?
If JOK walked up the front steps, down the basement steps, and brought up the bulkhead steps, wouldn’t that count as the 3 flights of stairs that JOK’s health app reported?
We will never know because the bulkhead doors were replaced, the floor was removed, and Chloe has moved on to a new life in idyllic Vermont.

If this had been an accident, I don't think we'd have seen anything like the lengths the Alberts, the McCabes and Higgins went to to cover it up. Endless lies, destruction of evidence, and butt dials galore.

Aside from the bulkhead, the house had four doors to the outside. Two in the front. One led directly into the foyer, close to the basement stairs. The second required guests to walk into what Nicole A. called "the den". There was also a door off the far end of the kitchen which led directly to the back yard and a slider off the "den" which led to a sunporch which led to a door to a deck. My guess would be that the easiest and fastest way to bring Chloe to the back yard would be the door off the kitchen. The guests were actually mostly in the the dining area of the house, which is not very close to the kitchen door. I think BA said he let Chloe out back as soon as he got home and she came straight back in. He may then have brought her "down cellar" as more people entered the house.

Recall that Higgins got tripped up on cross, admitting he'd said he "came upstairs" to look at one of Albert's kid's military medals. He'd denied ever being in the basement, but as these medals were kept in the first floor den or library, this clearly indicates he had been in the basement at some point as that was the only place to "come up" from. Higgins also testified at the FBI grand jury that he got a glimpse of a tall dark haired man entering the house. Aside from Matt McCabe, John O'Keefe was the only other invited male party guest who could have entered the house after Higgins arrived. Higgins never made any attempt to say this could have been Matt McCabe, so we're left to ponder if Higgins just hedged his bets in case it was later determined by forensics that John had indeed entered the house. Because he knew exactly what happened to John in that house. (and my own personal guess is John entered that house because he was drunk wanted to confront Higgins over Karen or something that was said as they exited the Waterfall.)

John's phone stopped moving at 12:32 (after Karen had left as she was verified already back at John's by 12:36) so I don't think any stair counts happened after he was killed. The phone was probably turned off and then back on when the killers put it on the ground and then put his body on top of it.

 

[thref23]

John's phone stopped moving at 12:32 (after Karen had left as she was verified already back at John's by 12:36)

John's phone stopped moving at 12:25 am, the is widely reported by various sources but here is one:

O’Keefe traveled down Dedham Street and turned left onto Oakdale, then left onto Maplecroft. As he is traveling down Maplecroft and past Pinecone Road in the hilly area, his phone showed him ascending and descending three floors of stairs.

He turned right on Cedarcrest Road but went past Fairview Road. He made a three-point turn and traveled back toward Fairview, turning onto the street and coming to a stop in front of 34 Fairview Road at 12:24 a.m.

Between 12:25 and 6:15 a.m., O’Keefe’s cellphone did not register any movement.

Karen Read trial live updates: GPS data shows O’Keefe never entered the house

Testimony resumed in the Karen Read trial on Thursday. Follow the latest updates here.

www.masslive.com

edit - I think its Apple Health data shows movement at 12:32 (or appears to if interpreted in a specific manner), but GPS data shows that the phone was approximately stationary as of 12:25

 

[Sachi]

If this had been an accident, I don't think we'd have seen anything like the lengths the Alberts, the McCabes and Higgins went to to cover it up. Endless lies, destruction of evidence, and butt dials galore.

Aside from the bulkhead, the house had four doors to the outside. Two in the front. One led directly into the foyer, close to the basement stairs. The second required guests to walk into what Nicole A. called "the den". There was also a door off the far end of the kitchen which led directly to the back yard and a slider off the "den" which led to a sunporch which led to a door to a deck. My guess would be that the easiest and fastest way to bring Chloe to the back yard would be the door off the kitchen. The guests were actually mostly in the the dining area of the house, which is not very close to the kitchen door. I think BA said he let Chloe out back as soon as he got home and she came straight back in. He may then have brought her "down cellar" as more people entered the house.

Recall that Higgins got tripped up on cross, admitting he'd said he "came upstairs" to look at one of Albert's kid's military medals. He'd denied ever being in the basement, but as these medals were kept in the first floor den or library, this clearly indicates he had been in the basement at some point as that was the only place to "come up" from. Higgins also testified at the FBI grand jury that he got a glimpse of a tall dark haired man entering the house. Aside from Matt McCabe, John O'Keefe was the only other invited male party guest who could have entered the house after Higgins arrived. Higgins never made any attempt to say this could have been Matt McCabe, so we're left to ponder if Higgins just hedged his bets in case it was later determined by forensics that John had indeed entered the house. Because he knew exactly what happened to John in that house. (and my own personal guess is John entered that house because he was drunk wanted to confront Higgins over Karen or something that was said as they exited the Waterfall.)

John's phone stopped moving at 12:32 (after Karen had left as she was verified already back at John's by 12:36) so I don't think any stair counts happened after he was killed. The phone was probably turned off and then back on when the killers put it on the ground and then put his body on top of it.

Do you have a theoretical sense of when and how his murder occurred? A theory of how it all went down?

 

[HarmonyE.]

edit - I think its Apple Health data shows movement at 12:32 (or appears to if interpreted in a specific manner), but GPS data shows that the phone was approximately stationary as of 12:25

The 12:25 stamp is his GPS which is likely around the time he entered the house. The people in the Nagel vehicle arrived just after John and Karen did and they saw her alone in the car while they waiting for Ryan's sister to come out. Like the other 8 people that walked/drove past the flag pole, they saw no body, although their headlights were on. There are texts with Julie Nagel that confirm the this time frame. Arrival time was 12:23 or 12:24.

GPS doesn't track people moving in a house. He was in 34 Fairview by 12:25 and he didn't leave until he was taken out. (and his phone turned off then on to cover movement by the killers who would have known to think of such things with two of them being cops).

iPhone health app, on the other hand, does track phone movement and John's moved at 12:32, when Karen was halfway home. I don't know what you mean by "if interpreted in a specific manner". The CW witness claimed the stair data was wrong because Karen went up and down a 50 foot hill. (This was a blatant lie, btw. There are no inclines on the way and this is something I wish the defense had addressed.) However, I heard no testimony explaining that time stamps on health apps are often wrong.

So John's phone moved after Karen left. And IMHO there is no reason to disbelieve the stair data either.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Do you have a theoretical sense of when and how his murder occurred? A theory of how it all went down?

I do, and I think a drunken John probably instigated it. Something started between him and Higgins at the Waterfall or Karen told him about the text she got from Higgins while there. So he went to Fairview to confront him. I cannot go further here because that would involve naming a few names, but its safe to say I think it was over in a short period of time, with a fist fight being ended by heavy blunt object being swung at John's head. I believe one of the defense witnesses said he could not have survived the head injury and would have been immediately rendered unconscious.

I think the multitude of "butt dials" made to John's phone that continued until more than 15 minutes after Karen was gone may have been made to locate John's phone. Which was either lost in the scuffle or perhaps placed down somewhere by John as the fight started.

 

[kittythehare]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1809320631101792529

 

[Maat99]

John's phone stopped moving at 12:25 am, the is widely reported by various sources but here is one:

Karen Read trial live updates: GPS data shows O’Keefe never entered the house

Testimony resumed in the Karen Read trial on Thursday. Follow the latest updates here.

www.masslive.com

From the article you linked:
Using the location and health data from O’Keefe’s phone, Guarino said at 12:12 a.m., O’Keefe was at the Waterfall bar and took 170 steps, traveling 326 feet. There are seven minutes where there is no location data, then O’Keefe’s cellphone is located on Dedham Street near Cedarcrest Road. At 12:20 a.m., while on Dedham Street, the address of 34 Fairview Road was entered into the Waze navigation app on the cellphone, which provided location data for the remainder of the route.


Interesting that cell phone “expert” Trooper Guarino thought that the location and health data from JOs phone was accurate enough to track JOs steps from the bar to KRs car.
I wonder why he didn’t use the Waze data instead? The Waze data is what he used as evidence that JO never walked even one step from the spot where Waze navigation ended. Even though nobody saw JO by the car for the next 5 hours - not even JM who was staring into the yard looking for him

But somehow the health data is the inaccurate walking data once JO arrived at BAs house - even though it is specifically designed to track walking and according to the Waze website, Waze doesn’t track it at all.
If I weigh the evidence from Waze vs the evidence from the location and health data designed to track walking, I am going with the health data. Just like Trooper Guarino did when he needed to proved that JO left the bar, ***walked to ***and got into KRs car.

https://support.google.com/waze/thread/120443310?hl=en&sjid=7805086531658122302-NC

 

[thref23]

Like the other 8 people that walked/drove past the flag pole, they saw no body, although their headlights were on. There are texts with Julie Nagel that confirm the this time frame.

And what about all of the people who came in and out of the house and never saw John inside of it, never saw or heard a fight, never saw anybody carrying John back outside? These people are capable of covering up a murder and keeping their mouth shut, but not capable of failing to notice a body inconspicuously lying at the far end of someone's lawn, late at night?

GPS doesn't track people moving in a house.

GPS would typically track a change in the phone's location, even within a house, so long as it is active and location is being recorded. You should be able to pull out your own phone and verify this.

I had been under the impression that his location had been recorded all night, but I guess all I know for sure off the top of my head is that a change in location was recorded at 6:15 am. This generally coincides with dash cam video of John being put on a stretcher at 6:14:49 found here.

From what I can find via Google, it seems that per GPS data, the phone remained approximately stationary between 12:25:36 and 6:15:36. Yet there is video of John being moved around 6:15:00 and I doubt that the "36 seconds" is a coincidence. This gives me the impression that maybe John's location was being logged automatically at 1 or 5 minute intervals at 36 seconds past the minute. This should have been clarified at trial IMO if it was not.

I don't know what you mean by "if interpreted in a specific manner".

I simply don't know how Apple Health data is typically logged, recorded, and interpreted. There has been so much argument to that effect in this trial, and I know that the defense is crafty while the prosecution can be prone to error.

But even for those with an Apple Watch, the Health app is known to detect lots of "steps" when people are sitting on a couch. And from what I gather, it is less accurate without a watch.

Anyways, just because the phone moves, doesn't mean it's location has changed. It could have fallen out of a pocket, etc.

 

[kittythehare]

Michael Proctor has been reassigned in wake of the Karen Read trial. What comes next is still unclear.

Massachusetts State Police Trooper Michael Proctor “is not able to function as a trooper” while he awaits a duty status hearing.

www.boston.com

 

[TTF14]

I haven't been following this trial closely, so I'm trying to catch up. It's these unusual things that the prosecutor and judge did that really bother me. When trials are watched by millions and closely scrutinized and discussed, its unusual to see the court and prosecution break rules and do suspicious things. And I see there are a lot of suspicious things.

I doubt it's breaking a rule to not expound on objections, but it certainly isn't ideal in the spirit of transparency. I'm no legal scholar, but I think they should be made to put reasons for objections being made and sustained/overruled on the record.

IMO

 

[Betty P]

I doubt it's breaking a rule to not expound on objections, but it certainly isn't ideal in the spirit of transparency. I'm no legal scholar, but I think they should be made to put reasons for objections being made and sustained/overruled on the record.

IMO

I thought that was the way its usually handled. Maybe there are rules that allow them to skip that if its the same objection being raised again and again. IANAL, but most courtroom lawyers usually explain the nature of their objection. If accurate, it also seems questionable if LE didn't collect all the evidence usually collected in this type of murder case.

 

[TTF14]

I thought that was the way its usually handled. Maybe there are rules that allow them to skip that if its the same objection being raised again and again. IANAL, but most courtroom lawyers usually explain the nature of their objection. If accurate, it also seems questionable if LE didn't collect all the evidence usually collected in this type of murder case.

Agree, it's usually the case, but it seems to not be the law in Massachusetts.

 

[thebedbug]

I doubt it's breaking a rule to not expound on objections, but it certainly isn't ideal in the spirit of transparency. I'm no legal scholar, but I think they should be made to put reasons for objections being made and sustained/overruled on the record.

IMO

Judges can sustain objects without them even being made. There was nothing strange going on other than people who (probably) don't normally watch trials, watching this trial and (possibly) comparing it to TV drama trials.

 

[PamCake]

Oh and add to that, medical testimony from Dr Sheridan, Dr Rentschler, Dr Wolfe and the ME herself (who made some sort of reservation but did say something more solid would be expected) that the nature of the head wound ruled out hitting lawn and lawn with cold hard ground beneath it and thin ice on a lawn. Head wound was blunt force trauma and the back of JO's head had come into contact with a solid object (concrete, steel etc if falling backwards or a hard object yielded with force for eg baseball bat, weight, tyre lever or some similar object). Moo

I'm not sure anybody has mentioned this before but could he have injured his head by hitting the fire hydrant, somehow?

 

[HarmonyE.]

And what about all of the people who came in and out of the house and never saw John inside of it, never saw or heard a fight, never saw anybody carrying John back outside? These people are capable of covering up a murder and keeping their mouth shut, but not capable of failing to notice a body inconspicuously lying at the far end of someone's lawn, late at night?



GPS would typically track a change in the phone's location, even within a house, so long as it is active and location is being recorded. You should be able to pull out your own phone and verify this.

I had been under the impression that his location had been recorded all night, but I guess all I know for sure off the top of my head is that a change in location was recorded at 6:15 am. This generally coincides with dash cam video of John being put on a stretcher at 6:14:49 found here.

From what I can find via Google, it seems that per GPS data, the phone remained approximately stationary between 12:25:36 and 6:15:36. Yet there is video of John being moved around 6:15:00 and I doubt that the "36 seconds" is a coincidence. This gives me the impression that maybe John's location was being logged automatically at 1 or 5 minute intervals at 36 seconds past the minute. This should have been clarified at trial IMO if it was not.



I simply don't know how Apple Health data is typically logged, recorded, and interpreted. There has been so much argument to that effect in this trial, and I know that the defense is crafty while the prosecution can be prone to error.

But even for those with an Apple Watch, the Health app is known to detect lots of "steps" when people are sitting on a couch. And from what I gather, it is less accurate without a watch.

Anyways, just because the phone moves, doesn't mean it's location has changed. It could have fallen out of a pocket, etc.

As I said, I believe John's phone was probably turned off once it was located by the "butt dials" that kept happening. Turned back on when it was put on the ground around 4 am. Two of these guys are cops and they would think of that when trying to stage a scene.

My phone GPS doesn't know where in the house I am and it certainly doesn't know if I'm in my neighbor's kitchen. It knows the address I'm at, but it doesn't know if I'm in the living room or a bedroom. John's GPS no longer tracked him once he was in the house because there was nothing further for his GPS to track. And there is no question Karen was gone before 12:32. John likely entered the house around 12:24 or 12:25, no later. Independent eye witnesses, one of whom is apparently a very good friend of the Alberts, all said Karen was alone in the car with the dome light on. They'd seen a male when they were following her car, but he was no longer there when they looked when she was still parked. No John on the lawn. How do you explain this?

Not sure what you mean about his phone falling out of his pocket. It was found under him. According to Trooper Paul when asked how this could happen his response was a shrug and the now famous "It just did". Stellar science.

If you mean he was hit at 12:25 and the phone just "fell out" at 12:32, I don't think this was suggested by anyone and I don't see how it would be possible. His head injury was immediately incapacitating. But then again, I don't see how it's possible he was hit by a car as his injuries simply don't support that conclusion.

Whether you believe the health app makes up steps randomly or not, the time stamp of the last phone movement was 12:32. That's a fact. This also doesn't mean John stopped moving then. It just means someone last moved his phone at 12:32.

If we're now questioning accuracy of phone data, I guess we better let Alex Murdaugh out of prison, because his iPhone data went a long way in getting him convicted.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I'm not sure anybody has mentioned this before but could he have injured his head by hitting the fire hydrant, somehow?

No. He wasn't found near the hydrant.