MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #17

[Universecalling]

I couldn't help but see this as I scrolled by!

Gordon Ramsey was lucky enough to survive his accident, and therefor develop bruises. Bruises take hours/days to develop.

JO didn't survive because he died of hyperthermia first. So no bruises.

JMO

He literally had bruising on his head.
Also, while bruising develops gradually, red bruising develops immediately after the injury. He also did not die instantly.

I posted the above picture as an example to show the damage that happens to the body after a car hit.
The purpose of the picture was not to show the color of the bruising, rather a severity.

 

[MyJoey]

If you're thinking that a rose bush caused those wounds on John's arm, then no, they didn't. Rose thorns aren't long enough and they're spaced too closely together. Plus I doubt they would penetrate his sweatshirt if he just brushed against them. Source: Me having brushed up against thorned bushes many, many times.
View attachment 516802

Someone or something had to furrow into his arm to cause those wounds, just as the EMT said in the trial.

Just running stuff through my brain. MOO many of the wounds on John’s arms look thick/ wide. Brain injuries are known to cause vomiting as we know he did get sick. They are also known to cause convulsions, if he was laying around glass and plastic pieces, could some be from that? Just thinking with my fingers.

 

[Seattle1]

If I almost run you over and you hit your head on the curb while you jump out of the way, or I clip you and push you over and you hit your head, you are still guilty of manslaughter. If you intended to do it you are guilty of murder.

But of course there is ample evidence she did hit him with her car and the analysis done <modsnip - derogatory nicknames are not allowed> just falls so short of being actual science they should take away his PhD.

Then again, if Jurors believed the CW failed to prove this greater charge of manslaughter while operating a motor vehicle under the influence of liquor, they may have been hung up on the lesser included charge of involuntary manslaughter. We really have no idea what the panel were split on-- especially knowing they acquitted the defendant on Count 3.

 

[JenaTaoson]

I don't think that's true. I thought they explicitly said they just looked at pictures. They didn't reconstruct the scene. They didn't even go to the scene. They never saw the vehicle in person. I know they said they did not consider information re: DNA or vehicle residue.

Sure, they did use their knowledge to reach a conclusion. I don't doubt their expertise in their fields. On a daily basis, I work with experts who are often wrong (for all the right reasons) about things. This is certainly a weakness in the CW's case and I would expect they will need to present a much clearer and confident picture of the incident to secure a conviction in the next trial.

Still... even with Lally's bungling... 8 of 12 jurors believe KR killed JO with her SUV.

To be fair, I imagine they didn't just look at pictures. They would have looked at direction, distance, and speed. Also, the angle of the individual when hit based on evidence from the deceased body.
IANAP but I have more of a basic understanding than TP.
MOO
ETA: unlike other fields, physics is a science deeeeply embedded in math. I would trust a DNA expert much less than a physics expert. Again, MOO

 

[ch_13]

Just running stuff through my brain. MOO many of the wounds on John’s arms look thick/ wide. Brain injuries are known to cause vomiting as we know he did get sick. They are also known to cause convulsions, if he was laying around glass and plastic pieces, could some be from that? Just thinking with my fingers.

Again, you have to explain the tiny holes in John's shirtsleeve. I'd estimate they're about 1/4" in diameter or even smaller.

But why don't you test it out? Take a sharp, broken piece of plastic and some old scrap of fabric. Rub the plastic over the cloth and see the kind of holes it makes. I'm pretty sure you won't end up with anything that looks like John's sleeve.

 

[JenaTaoson]

I couldn't help but see this as I scrolled by!

Gordon Ramsey was lucky enough to survive his accident, and therefor develop bruises. Bruises take hours/days to develop.

JO didn't survive because he died of hyperthermia first. So no bruise

When drinking your blood thins to a degree that you are more likely to bruise if injured. Even in the cold.
So I imagine getting hit by a car would cause bruising, even if he was hit in the arm and went down. His body at least would show bruising from the impact with the ground. SWMOO

 

[TIGER0822]

Yet mostly unlikely. As someone who has been in business for going on 22 years, and who is and has been in multiple pet sitting/dog walking forums, it is very rare and usually a job we won't take on as we need to make sure the dog has water when we return. We don't leave dogs outside unless the dog is somewhere in the country. Also, an expensive dog like a purebred Malinois is not going to be left outside due to potentially being stolen, and that's beyond more practical reasons like weather. Case in point we are having storms here today. It's thundering. I just finished walking my group of 3 dogs and I've been inside all 3 houses. One dog needed water and food, one is in the living room behind a gate and the third has free run of the house. My clients have always given me free run of their homes. None of them wants their dog to be outside in thunderstorms or extreme heat or cold.

A person was running a very busy dog operation (we are talking upto 8 dogs), doggie daycare, overnight dog boarding, allegedly daily walks, bathing etc., the pickup and drop off was always from the front door. This operation was illegal or multiple reasons, but the fact is that the dog owners did not come into the house.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

A person was running a very busy dog operation (we are talking upto 8 dogs), doggie daycare, overnight dog boarding, allegedly daily walks, bathing etc., the pickup and drop off was always from the front door. This operation was illegal or multiple reasons, but the fact is that the dog owners did not come into the house.

We aren't talking about dog owners. We are talking about dog walkers. we as fog walkers go into homes to pick the dog up because the owners are usually at work. Even with people working from home we still go inside to get the dog.

 

[Seattle1]

Wondering what kind of bush that is? Rose?

It seems to be something intended to shield the utility box.

While this google image is dated April 2022, I first thought it was just a pile of yard debris when viewing a 2024 image.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[TIGER0822]

Additional motion by defense, 4th juror has come forward

https://twitter.com/x/status/1811050889760702838

It a

We aren't talking about dog owners. We are talking about dog walkers. we as fog walkers go into homes to pick the dog up because the owners are usually at work. Even with people working from home we still go inside to get the dog.

This person ran the business from the house, she was my tenant. Only she forgot to tell me about it. People dropped off their dogs for walking, daycare, bathing, grooming and boarding. They even set up an LLC.

 

[OldCop]

He literally had bruising on his head.
Also, while bruising develops gradually, red bruising develops immediately after the injury. He also did not die instantly.

I posted the above picture as an example to show the damage that happens to the body after a car hit.
The purpose of the picture was not to show the color of the bruising, rather a severity.

Agree. Plus, since the PHD’s did study the autopsy report, they would also believe the evidence or lack thereof of additional soft tissue injuries not visible to the naked eye on the torso which would occur with a body/vehicle impact.

 

[MyJoey]

It seems to be something intended to shield the utility box.

While this google image is dated April 2022, I first thought it was just a pile of yard debris when viewing a 2024 image.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Wow what a great view, thank you.

 

[HawthorneJuniper]

1 in 3 pedestrians hit at 25 miles per hour are severely injured, 4% will die.

Pedestrian Crash Analysis Shows That Even at Low Speeds, Accidents Often Cause Severe Injuries

MoneyGeek analyzed data from the NHTSA to learn more about pedestrian crashes; we found that even crashes at slow speeds can lead to severe injury.

www.moneygeek.com

Based on a US Department of Transportation study.

Sure, people actually HIT by cars die. JOK was NOT hit by a car. And Karen's car did not have damage consistent with a pedestrian fatality.

I've yet to see anyone provide examples of a pedestrian fatality with only a cracked tail light as damage to the vehicle & with no injuries to the pedestrian except a head wound and an arm with scratches & punctures & ZERO injury to the rest of his body.

These are pictures of cars from from actual pedestrian fatalities. Science, logic & math all say that this was not a vehicle/pedestrian collision.

 

[MyJoey]

Again, you have to explain the tiny holes in John's shirtsleeve. I'd estimate they're about 1/4" in diameter or even smaller.

But why don't you test it out? Take a sharp, broken piece of plastic and some old scrap of fabric. Rub the plastic over the cloth and see the kind of holes it makes. I'm pretty sure you won't end up with anything that looks like John's sleeve.

Yeah thinking is easier than all that effort lol.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Additional motion by defense, 4th juror has come forward

https://twitter.com/x/status/1811050889760702838

Youtube's "The Lawyer You Know" just did an excellent video on the 4th juror and all the current ramifications taking place and possible issues with the jury instructions.
IIRC: He's not an approved source to post?

 

[TIGER0822]

Yeah thinking is easier than all that effort lol.

Even better, borrow a cannon!

 

[OldCop]

Just running stuff through my brain. MOO many of the wounds on John’s arms look thick/ wide. Brain injuries are known to cause vomiting as we know he did get sick. They are also known to cause convulsions, if he was laying around glass and plastic pieces, could some be from that? Just thinking with my fingers.

Or this:

 

[ShadyLady]

It seems to be something intended to shield the utility box.

While this google image is dated April 2022, I first thought it was just a pile of yard debris when viewing a 2024 image.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Thanks for that. BUT, what I noticed is there is a curb, no sidewalk, parking lane, etc. SOOOOO, if BH parked his jeep by the mailbox, he would have parked in the street BLOCKING traffic. Now don't believe he was truthful where he parked the jeep.

Snow day, and he parked in the traffic lane????

 

[fluffypaste]

Youtube's "The Lawyer You Know" just did an excellent video on the 4th juror and all the current ramifications taking place and possible issues with the jury instructions.
IIRC: He's not an approved source to post?

I'm so angry at the judge for not clarifying this matter herself before dismissing the jury. This is supposed to be her actual job. Why was she so incurious about the results of the trial?

Inexcusable.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

It seems to be something intended to shield the utility box.

While this google image is dated April 2022, I first thought it was just a pile of yard debris when viewing a 2024 image.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

The small plantings IMO ~1 - 2 foot in height, almost appear to be small red or white oak saplings perhaps? A cluster of them? Basing this on the thin trunks and leaves and their shape in the earlier winter image and this image from the Google earth view link in above post.

I didn’t readily locate any large donor trees other than perhaps across the road and further back. Not a resident to that area so not sure typical plantings nor native types. MOO