Halyna Hutchins Shot With Prop Gun - Alec Baldwin indicted & Hannah Gutierrez-Reed charged, 2021 #8

[al66pine]

"Accident” or “Intention" in Invol Manslaughter?

Some posts discuss these two ^ words, defining & dissecting them, but I’m puzzled about why. The trial of AB is for NM crime of Involuntary Manslaughter.

Jury Instrxn for InvolMan in Hannah Guttierez-Reed’s April trial, IIUC per below, did NOT include the word “accident” or “intention.” (I subbed AB for HGR’s name, and “his” for “her.”):
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
“- AB endangered the safety of another by handling or using a firearm in an unsafe manner;
“- AB should have known of the danger involved by his action;
“- AB acted with a willful disregard for the safety of others;
“- AB’s act caused the death of Halyna Hutchins.
“- This happened in NM on or about the 21st day of October 2021.”
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Willful disregard for the safety of others. Nothing about “accident” or “intention.”
Seems likely imo, that this ^ will be a Jury Instrxn in AB's trial. Imo

As always, welcoming comment or correction, esp’ly from our legal professionals.

_______________________________
* HGR Trial. InvolManslaughter, marked Instrxn “No. 12,” at page 13 of pdf:

https://nmcourts.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/March-8-2024-Jury-Instructions.pdf

 

[Slick762]

What was going on at that set for there to be live rounds all over the place?

This topic came up a lot during the HGR trial. There are some plausible ways it happened.
- HGR got live rounds for target practice and negligently brought them on set and mixed them with the dummy ammo. She had a police interview where she talks arrogantly about bad weapons and ammo handling and says she would dump a handful of dummies into her fanny pack and use them as she worked, rather than working from a tray of rounds that had already been properly checked.
- HGR got live rounds in order to make more dummy rounds and accidentally mixed them up. The set did have a shortage of dummy ammo. One of the tools she bought on the movie budget was a press to remove bullets from brass (take the round apart). She might have thought she could empty out some live rounds and press the bullets back in.
- HGR grabbed live rounds from her dad's place and thought they were dummies.
- Thell Reed accidentally gave her live rounds, thinking they were dummies.
- Seth accidentally or purposely gave her live rounds. That was the defenses version of what happened but there was no evidence to support that.

 

[clearskies1]

"Accident” or “Intention" in Invol Manslaughter?

Some posts discuss these two ^ words, defining & dissecting them, but I’m puzzled about why. The trial of AB is for NM crime of Involuntary Manslaughter.

Jury Instrxn for InvolMan in Hannah Guttierez-Reed’s April trial, IIUC per below, did NOT include the word “accident” or “intention.” (I subbed AB for HGR’s name, and “his” for “her.”):
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
“- AB endangered the safety of another by handling or using a firearm in an unsafe manner;
“- AB should have known of the danger involved by his action;
“- AB acted with a willful disregard for the safety of others;
“- AB’s act caused the death of Halyna Hutchins.
“- This happened in NM on or about the 21st day of October 2021.”
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Willful disregard for the safety of others. Nothing about “accident” or “intention.”
Seems likely imo, that this ^ will be a Jury Instrxn in AB's trial. Imo

As always, welcoming comment or correction, esp’ly from our legal professionals.

_______________________________
* HGR Trial. InvolManslaughter, marked Instrxn “No. 12,” at page 13 of pdf:

https://nmcourts.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/March-8-2024-Jury-Instructions.pdf

Willful disregard sounds like recklessness or gross negligence. The risk is high because it involves a deadly weapon. You must take great care.... along those lines. JMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Willful disregard sounds like recklessness or gross negligence. The risk is high because it involves a deadly weapon. You must take great care.... along those lines. JMO.

And that's why this trial in New Mexico is taking place.

 

[Universecalling]

I know all this.

It was NOT destroyed, however. That is simply incorrect language. It is blatantly untrue.

Say that I kill someone in my car driving at 70 mph. The police take my car and do tests with it. During those tests they decide to do an emergency stop test at 140 mph (analogous to the unnecessary test the FBI did on the gun) and blow out the two front tyres due to the extreme nature of the test.

Is it an honest thing to say that my car has been destroyed?

No, it's not!

Is it an honest thing to say that my defence team are incapable of testing my car?

No it's not!

A family member was in a roll over crash recently.
The entire family has been using the word destroyed when describing the car.
It can absolutely be put back together with new parts. But, let’s face it… it’s destroyed.

 

[clearskies1]

So the judge ruled today that some of Alec's statements can come in. She said that the State can introduce Alec's comments (during his interview on the day of the shooting) that show he had knowledge that blanks can kill someone. She also said that the State can bring in some statements that it claims show that he was not as upset as the defense says he was after the shooting. I'm not entirely clear what those statements are -- it may have to do with him planning a family trip. It's all drawn out but both argument/rulings take place starting at 4:57:57 below and extending for about 30 minutes after that. JMO.

 

[Snoopster]

I'm sorry that I haven't been following this case, but was this from today? (i.e. AB storming out of the courtroom) Or was this from a previous hearing?

 

[clearskies1]

I'm sorry that I haven't been following this case, but was this from today? (i.e. AB storming out of the courtroom) Or was this from a previous hearing?

Yes, it was today.

 

[Luna20]

Mr. Baldwin is innocent. sorry..Hannah G. was the cause and architect of all the sorrows, and while they aren't trying her right now I wonder why she was not charged further, I mean could she have done this intentionally? . mOO

She could have but there is no evidence of that. Murderers do stupid things sometimes but to intentionally murder someone on a film set would be beyond stupid for the sake of getting caught. It was her first big gig, she didn’t want to jeopardize that.

However she did jeopardize her ‘career’ by being unprofessional and negligent. Her arrogance and immaturity superseded judgment. She overestimated being the daughter of a known armorer.

 

[mickey2942]

AB has quite a temper. I will never forget the horrible things that he said to his daughter, Ireland, on the phone. She was, like 12, at the time. I can't imagine that kind of cruelty from a parent.

Seriously, you couldn't pay me to be married to him. People who say things like that, don't magically change. That is their personality. I wouldn't even work for him. I am sure that he is charming in person. Like other narcissists.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

Seth accidentally or purposely gave her live rounds. That was the defenses version of what happened but there was no evidence to support that.

I do wonder in the case of Seth Kenney if the reloaded ammunition that had been gifted to him by his friend were also included in the dummy boxes. Their misidentification or the thought being overlooked would be understandable, and most likely unintentional considering SK tells The NY Times, Starline Brass only sells dummies and the components needed to put together the ammunition or rounds like the powder and brass case. Furthermore, following HH’s tragic shooting and death, SJ did notice that not all the rounds in the box the forsaken bullet came from made the jiggling sound causing SK to further speculate that perhaps the used rounds gifted by his friend had been reloaded all this time unbeknownst to him.

Additionally, Since they are hand made by the buyers they may not necessarily follow the color-coded pattern, like the silver and brass centers on top, that help differentiate and identify live rounds from the dummy ones. I wonder too if LE took this into consideration when they searched SK’s house or did too understandably miss them like everybody else? I know an officer stated in court today that the bullets found at SK’s that originally belonged to Tell Reed did not match the one they had in forensics but perhaps the reloaded ones Starline Brass will have a better since they come from the same company that supplied ammunition to Rust production team.

JMO

Detectives Work to Trace How Live Rounds Got on ‘Rust’ Film Set (Published 2021)

Investigators are trying to determine whether a supplier who was supposed to provide the movie with blanks and dummies may have sent live rounds.

www.nytimes.com

Is the Embattled Young ‘Rust’ Armorer Getting a Fair Shot?

As the first criminal trial over the film’s tragic shooting gets underway, prosecutors look to paint Hannah Gutierrez-Reed as a druggie whose mistakes led to calamity. Defenders say she’s a scapegoat for penny-pinching producers and a blundering investigation. New details reveal both may be true.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

Negligence or scapegoating? Trial of 'Rust' armorer begins in fatal shooting by Alec Baldwin

Prosecutors sought to pin blame on a movie weapons supervisor for bringing live ammunition on set that contributed to the fatal shooting of a cinematographer by Alec Baldwin during production of the film "Rust."

kslnewsradio.com

Judge dismisses involuntary manslaughter case against Alec Baldwin

The dismissal comes after very heated testimony from a crime scene technician about ammunition that was obtained by the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office after the trial of Hannah Gutierrez-Reed was over.

www.koat.com

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Anatomy of Ammo | Rifle, Handgun, and Pistol Brass

Starline would like to help reloaders better understand some reloading terms including case, cartridges, brass, empties, shells, projectile, powder and primer.

www.starlinebrass.com

 

[Slick762]

I'm playing catch up.

I do wonder in the case of Seth Kenney if the reloaded ammunition that had been gifted to him by his friend were also included in the dummy boxes. Their misidentification or the thought being overlooked would be understandable, and most likely unintentional considering SK tells The NY Times, Starline Brass only sells dummies and the components needed to put together the ammunition or rounds like the powder and brass case. Furthermore, following HH’s tragic shooting and death, SJ did notice that not all the rounds in the box the forsaken bullet came from made the jiggling sound causing SK to further speculate that perhaps the used rounds gifted by his friend had been reloaded all this time unbeknownst to him.

Additionally, Since they are hand made by the buyers they may not necessarily follow the color-coded pattern, like the silver and brass centers on top, that help differentiate and identify live rounds from the dummy ones. I wonder too if LE took this into consideration when they searched SK’s house or did too understandably miss them like everybody else? I know an officer stated in court today that the bullets found at SK’s that originally belonged to Tell Reed did not match the one they had in forensics but perhaps the reloaded ones Starline Brass will have a better since they come from the same company that supplied ammunition to Rust production team.

JMO

Detectives Work to Trace How Live Rounds Got on ‘Rust’ Film Set (Published 2021)

Investigators are trying to determine whether a supplier who was supposed to provide the movie with blanks and dummies may have sent live rounds.

www.nytimes.com

Is the Embattled Young ‘Rust’ Armorer Getting a Fair Shot?

As the first criminal trial over the film’s tragic shooting gets underway, prosecutors look to paint Hannah Gutierrez-Reed as a druggie whose mistakes led to calamity. Defenders say she’s a scapegoat for penny-pinching producers and a blundering investigation. New details reveal both may be true.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

Negligence or scapegoating? Trial of 'Rust' armorer begins in fatal shooting by Alec Baldwin

Prosecutors sought to pin blame on a movie weapons supervisor for bringing live ammunition on set that contributed to the fatal shooting of a cinematographer by Alec Baldwin during production of the film "Rust."

kslnewsradio.com

Judge dismisses involuntary manslaughter case against Alec Baldwin

The dismissal comes after very heated testimony from a crime scene technician about ammunition that was obtained by the Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office after the trial of Hannah Gutierrez-Reed was over.

www.koat.com

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Anatomy of Ammo | Rifle, Handgun, and Pistol Brass

Starline would like to help reloaders better understand some reloading terms including case, cartridges, brass, empties, shells, projectile, powder and primer.

www.starlinebrass.com

I followed HGR trial fairly close and followed the gun and ammo testimony really closely.

Seth did have live rounds, but they were not a match for the live rounds found on set. 4 components; brass, primer, powder and bullet. None of the live rounds found at Seths place were a match with the live rounds found on set. IIRC, powder, bullet, and primer were all different.

It was never proven where the live rounds came from but apparently there was a 'mystery box' of dummy ammo that magically appeared on set and HRG told the cops she only shook the box and didn't check individual rounds.

And there was a whole 'Mean Girls' dynamic in play because HRG and the prop master were both young women with no movie experience, they were nepo hires (Thell's daughter and Seths sister-in-law) and depending on the schedule, and whether they were doing armorer or prop work, it would flipflop back and forth as to which one was in charge that day. And they were constantly arguing and brought their respective relatives into it. Which meant that not only were they inexperienced, but they were power tripping on each other and had a crappy working relationship.

And when the shooting happened, both Thell and Seth immediately blamed each other for the live rounds. And Thell has been busting his *advertiser censored* behind the scenes, passing 'information' to the cops and having one of his buddies act as a 'good Samaritan' and pass another mystery box of live ammo to the cops, years after the shooting, and claim it came from Seth.

As far as the gun being 'broken'. It was broken during an FBI forensic test where they basically hit the hammer with a mallet to see if it could have been dropped and fired on its own, and that's what caused the parts to break. Given that the gun was purchased new for the movie, as a gun guy I doubt there was any sort of mechanical problem with it or worn-out parts at the time of the shooting. And if there had been, a proper armorer would have caught and fixed it.

 

[otto]

I'm playing catch up.

I followed HGR trial fairly close and followed the gun and ammo testimony really closely.

Seth did have live rounds, but they were not a match for the live rounds found on set. 4 components; brass, primer, powder and bullet. None of the live rounds found at Seths place were a match with the live rounds found on set. IIRC, powder, bullet, and primer were all different.

It was never proven where the live rounds came from but apparently there was a 'mystery box' of dummy ammo that magically appeared on set and HRG told the cops she only shook the box and didn't check individual rounds.

And there was a whole 'Mean Girls' dynamic in play because HRG and the prop master were both young women with no movie experience, they were nepo hires (Thell's daughter and Seths sister-in-law) and depending on the schedule, and whether they were doing armorer or prop work, it would flipflop back and forth as to which one was in charge that day. And they were constantly arguing and brought their respective relatives into it. Which meant that not only were they inexperienced, but they were power tripping on each other and had a crappy working relationship.

And when the shooting happened, both Thell and Seth immediately blamed each other for the live rounds. And Thell has been busting his *advertiser censored* behind the scenes, passing 'information' to the cops and having one of his buddies act as a 'good Samaritan' and pass another mystery box of live ammo to the cops, years after the shooting, and claim it came from Seth.

As far as the gun being 'broken'. It was broken during an FBI forensic test where they basically hit the hammer with a mallet to see if it could have been dropped and fired on its own, and that's what caused the parts to break. Given that the gun was purchased new for the movie, as a gun guy I doubt there was any sort of mechanical problem with it or worn-out parts at the time of the shooting. And if there had been, a proper armorer would have caught and fixed it.

I'm following the trial. Two inexperience people failed to check the gun and ammo before it landed in Alec Baldwin's hands. It has been established that the gun cannot fire unless the hammer is pulled back and the trigger is pulled. That means Baldwin pulled the hammer, pointed the gun, pulled the trigger.

Maybe he was fooling around, expecting the gun to have a dummy round. Testimony will be entered that Baldwin knew that a dummy round could kill, or cause serious injury.

That establishes that, regardless of dummy/ live round, Baldwin knew it was dangerous to point a gun at staff and pull the trigger. Regardless of who put live ammo on set, Baldwin was careless with the gun, causing death.

Is there a lawsuit against Baldwin for wrongful death?

 

[Sor Juana]

15 Key Moments from Alec Baldwin’s Manslaughter Trial Opening Statements

 

[Marantz4250b]

This topic came up a lot during the HGR trial. There are some plausible ways it happened.
- HGR got live rounds for target practice and negligently brought them on set and mixed them with the dummy ammo. She had a police interview where she talks arrogantly about bad weapons and ammo handling and says she would dump a handful of dummies into her fanny pack and use them as she worked, rather than working from a tray of rounds that had already been properly checked.
- HGR got live rounds in order to make more dummy rounds and accidentally mixed them up. The set did have a shortage of dummy ammo. One of the tools she bought on the movie budget was a press to remove bullets from brass (take the round apart). She might have thought she could empty out some live rounds and press the bullets back in.
- HGR grabbed live rounds from her dad's place and thought they were dummies.
- Thell Reed accidentally gave her live rounds, thinking they were dummies.
- Seth accidentally or purposely gave her live rounds. That was the defenses version of what happened but there was no evidence to support that.

It was said in court today that Hannah was almost certainly the person who introduced the live rounds. I don't know whether it was mentioned at her own trial but there was a box of dummies with a single live round in it found at the scene which was almost certainly taken there by Hannah.

 

[Marantz4250b]

A family member was in a roll over crash recently.
The entire family has been using the word destroyed when describing the car.
It can absolutely be put back together with new parts. But, let’s face it… it’s destroyed.

That's a bad analogy; strictly speaking, it's not "destroyed" as it still exists in the form of a vehicle. I'd agree that it's destroyed for all practical purposes as it's damaged beyond use.

We are talking about legal specifics in a trial involving a death here. To say that the gun was "destroyed" by the FBI is false and bordering on a lie. Personally, I would call it a lie because hat the FBI did to it didn't even put it "beyond use" as a firearm. It was still capable of firing. The only thing not working on it was the sear preventing the hammer locking back and possibly the bolt may not unlock to release the cylinder but both of those can be over come.

In any event, the gun can easily be repaired by installing two new parts, which it was, just like fitting two new tyres in my car analogy.

I also think that the crime scene lady was wrong when she agreed with the defence that it could not be restored to it's original condition. It can be by putting in two new parts. I'd agree that it could not be restored to its original state but that is not what she was asked.

 

[Marantz4250b]

As far as the gun being 'broken'. It was broken during an FBI forensic test where they basically hit the hammer with a mallet to see if it could have been dropped and fired on its own, and that's what caused the parts to break. Given that the gun was purchased new for the movie, as a gun guy I doubt there was any sort of mechanical problem with it or worn-out parts at the time of the shooting. And if there had been, a proper armorer would have caught and fixed it.

What was astonishing from yesterday was the fact that not only was this gun virtually brand new but by huge coincidence it was put together by, and personally quality checked by, one of the Pietta owners himself! Alessandro Pietta, I think his name was. Think he owns the company with his brother, it having been started in 1963 by their father.

The reason he did this was that this gun was to be a display gun at the 2018 Shot Show and they wanted to make sure that it was absolutely flawless and the best of the best as it was there to promote their products.

So, we have the actual boss of the company that made the gun personally confirming that this gun was literally perfect when it left his factory.

We then had the guy from EMF who are the Pietta importers confirming that this gun lived most of it's life in a display case hardly even being handled. It was sold to PDQ around one month before the incident on the set, it having done basically nothing between then and leaving the factory.

So, for Alec Baldwin to claim that this gun was defective and capable of discharging on it's own is total and utter rubbish, quite honestly!

When this gun was made it was sent to the national Proof House to be tested as all firearms are required to be by law. That test involves firing an over pressure round through each chamber to make sure it is safe. That being the case it is very likely that the bullet which killed HH and wounded JS was only the seventh bullet ever to pass through it's bore, the seventh live round ever to be discharged from it.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Hancock was on the stand briefly at the end of the day Thursday and will continue her direct examination by the prosecution Friday before undergoing what's likely to be a long cross-examination by the defense as they look to poke holes in an investigation they have suggested unfairly focused on Baldwin.

Before Hancock took the stand, Italian gunmaker Alessandro Pietta testified Thursday about quality control in the manufacturing process for the gun eventually acquired by an Albuquerque-based gun and ammunition supplier to "Rust" and handled by Baldwin in the fatal shooting. It was shipped in 2017, and Pietta last examined the gun in 2018 through a sales and distribution company.

"If you want to release the hammer you have to pull the trigger," he told the courtroom

Lead detective to testify in Baldwin's trial over fatal 'Rust' set shooting

Baldwin has claimed the gun fired accidentally after he followed instructions to point it toward Hutchins, who was behind the camera.

newschannel20.com

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1811517834213654626

https://twitter.com/x/status/1811692474684809598

 

[KSwizzle]

Yeah I guess Baldwin’s defense has to argue it was just a one in a million fluke that the gun in proper working order discharged without pulling the trigger, or someone between the time PDQ obtained the gun and when Baldwin got it in his hands, someone altered the gun

I think those could be tough to argue and or prove