PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #3

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
The bulletin, which was first obtained by Politico, stated, “The FBI and DHS remain concerned about the potential for follow-on or retaliatory acts of violence following this attack, particularly given that individuals in some online communities have threatened, encouraged, or referenced acts of violence in response to the attempted assassination.”

The bulletin warned that “lone actors” or small cells of individuals will likely “continue to view publicly accessible locations like political rallies and campaign events as attractive targets.”
 
The Secret Service botched this as badly as you can. Not only did they leave that warehouse roof open but when Trump was been taken off stage you do not stop because to Trump told you so you keep moving.
 
Has anyone read any discussion about cameras on the buildings that surround the site? The building the shooter on was a business, do they have security cameras? Seems that would tell quite a bit about what transpired the days before the shooting. TIA
 
The Secret Service repeatedly denied requests for more personnel and other security resources from agents guarding former President Donald Trump prior to the assassination attempt on the candidate at a July 13 rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, a Secret Service official told NBC News.

The earlier requests for additional resources, which stretched over two years, could not be fully accommodated because the Secret Service lacked the resources to fulfill them, the official said.

“The Secret Service has a vast, dynamic, and intricate mission. Every day we work in a dynamic threat environment to ensure our protectees are safe and secure across multiple events, travel, and other challenging environments,” said Anthony Guglielmi, a spokesperson for the Secret Service. “We execute a comprehensive and layered strategy to balance personnel, technology, and specialized operational needs.”...
 
I haven't posted on this thread, for various reasons, primarily because I avoid any threads that have even a whiff of being potentially political, because I abhor what politics in the US has become today. However, I have been watching and reading avidly since Butler, PA is my hometown. Although I live in Pittsburgh now, I was on my way there that evening for something else that night, in the city/downtown. As I was about halfway there, my phone started just blowing up with texts from friends and family in the area. Like many of you, I am appalled and flabbergasted at what transpired that day, the failures, and the multiple opportunities that there were to have nipped this in the bud before this became a tragedy.

After reading articles from multiple places and the really good analysis and questions posed here by our ever-savvy sleuthers, I am in the camp that the failures and circumstances of the event lie squarely on the shoulders of the SS, who was responsible for 2 key elements that could have made a difference (all IMHO):

1. Designating the Perimeter - To me, this was the first and biggest failure of security that occurred, given the range of the weapon used and rifles available to pretty much every citizen in the US today. How could buildings within shooting range of the stage where Trump was going to be NOT considered in the inner perimeter, especially since there was clearly an ability to get up on to a rooftop using an AC unit? I can see if the only way to get up on the roof (if say, the building was 10 stories) was through the building, that securing any entrances would be enough, but that clearly wasn't the case. While it's true that Butler County is Trump Country and he is beloved there, no place is immune from a disgruntled lone gunman.

2. Communications/Chain of Command Confusion - Although less is known about what exactly the chain of command and ability of local police to reach and be heard by the SS teams, it seems to me that the delays from when the shooter was spotted at every point were either not taken seriously or not communicated to those who could do something about it until it was too late. Arrrgh! There were SO many opportunities to have stopped the shooter. For once, this might have been the time to act in the "Shoot First, Ask Questions Later" mode, that LE is criticized (sometimes rightfully) for in circumstances where it isn't even warranted. Heck, how about we just ask Thomas Crook some questions in a friendly manner, "Hey son, what are you doing? What's in the bag? Why do you have that range finder? Can we see some ID?" [This one I am going to criticize local LE for - let's, you know, err on the side of caution here people!] I think that had that happened, it might have been enough to spook Crooks, and we would all be reading about a man being questioned and let go or perhaps found with a gun instead of what transpired.

On that point of Communications....were the SS dismissive of any warnings from local LE, thinking "What do these small-time cops know about anything?" ... or was there some chain of communications that bounced from person to person to person that required escalation that ultimately delayed everything?

I admit that of course I could be biased in favor of the LE in my little hometown, but I do hope that some answers will be forthcoming in the upcoming hearings and there is accountability for the failures that occurred.

And just because, I'll share some good tidbits about Butler, PA. It was an amazing, safe, and wonderful place to grow up, full of great people - and also, the birthplace of the Jeep: Butler | Butler County Tourism & Convention Bureau
Reading your post and I appreciate your local perspective. It must be so very unsettling to have something like this happen in your hometown. I think most all of us don't think any differently of your town, the local LE in that town or the people that live there. This could have happened in any town, in any state, in America. It seems like this is a wake up call for the SS and one that has needed to happen for a long time. I would never wish anyone to be harmed like this or killed, but if anything at all good can come from it, I hope it's that SS will regroup and retrain, or implement new training or new procedures so they are stronger and better equipped to keep those they are protecting safe.
 
I have a question for anyone here that might have worked in security, LE or other similar line of work.

I was thinking about the issue of the perimeter and wondering if it really even takes more assets or costs more to have a larger perimeter. If they had included those buildings in the secure area, it seems that would not have taken more personnel at all. Once the area is searched and secured, then anyone entering that area would still be required to go through a metal detector, bags checked, etc. It makes the inside area bigger, but it seems it would make a larger area around that person safer so I guess I am not even understanding why those buildings in question where the shooter was were not included in the secure area. This was not an area where that meant they had another city block to secure. It would literally just widen the area to include those buildings. I am sure they cleared them anyway before putting LE inside them. So why not just include them in the area only people who have been screened could go? It just seems so simple and easily preventable without the need for more people to keep it secure it just seems the secure area needed to just be larger and in a giant field with a few buildings, it wouldn't have been hard to do.
 
I admit that of course I could be biased in favor of the LE in my little hometown, but I do hope that some answers will be forthcoming in the upcoming hearings and there is accountability for the failures that occurred.

IMO it’s only natural that you should be supportive of your local LE. I feel the same about my NYPD, even though NYC is on the opposite end of the spectrum from a small town.

I imagine the SS has a fluctuating quota of personnel assigned to any protectee, depending on what they deem to be the threat level.

A sitting president and First Lady ( or if we ever have a First Gentleman) will be assigned the highest level and by law they cannot refuse.

A former president is assigned protection for life, but I would hazard a guess that Jimmy Carter, at 99 years old and over a year in hospice, does not require as much protection as former presidents who are out and about in public.

Trump also qualifies as a presidential candidate within 120 days of an election. Perhaps that started when RFK was assassinated on the campaign trail, but I’m too lazy to look that up.

IMO the fault here lies in some amnesia regarding just how divisive this country is now, and what a controversial man Trump is, and what catnip killing him would be to people whose mind is set on going out in infamy.

Yet TC also searched info about Biden and the DNC and other famous people. I do think it boils down to the convenience of Trump being at an outdoor rally in a small town that was local for a very angry and disturbed young man.

I am not a fan of either Trump nor Biden, but I think it’s unforgivable to have allowed Trump to take the stage when TC had already been spotted as someone suspicious.

And yes, Trump is a difficult man to protect because he doesn’t like to be told what to do by anyone, IMO. His instinct was to rally the crowd once he was only marginally shot, but we all know a fraction of a difference would have been the end of him.

All JMO.
 
'[They] could've said, "Let's wait for 15, 20 minutes, 5 minutes." Nobody said…I think that was a mistake,' he added.

Trump, along with the rest of the United States, later questioned how Crooks could have possibly made it onto the roof to begin with.

'How did somebody get on that roof?' Trump questioned. 'And why wasn't he reported, because people saw he was on that roof.'

Trump revealed that security agents were alerted that someone was on the roof with a gun before he even walked out on stage - and did not stop him from doing so.


BBM - Mind boggling! :mad:
 
The Secret Service repeatedly denied requests for more personnel and other security resources from agents guarding former President Donald Trump prior to the assassination attempt on the candidate at a July 13 rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, a Secret Service official told NBC News.

The earlier requests for additional resources, which stretched over two years, could not be fully accommodated because the Secret Service lacked the resources to fulfill them, the official said.

“The Secret Service has a vast, dynamic, and intricate mission. Every day we work in a dynamic threat environment to ensure our protectees are safe and secure across multiple events, travel, and other challenging environments,” said Anthony Guglielmi, a spokesperson for the Secret Service. “We execute a comprehensive and layered strategy to balance personnel, technology, and specialized operational needs.”...
I'd like to know the total number of requests denied by type of request and title (I know they can't release names) for the last two years.

I think former president Trump and the American citizens need to be assured request were not an act of discrimination.

Assassination attempt was preventable, three citizens were injured and one lost their life. This needs to be a very transparent investigation.

The SS is already walking back several statements made by the Director, not a good look.

Moo
 
Moo....
I think TC was going to set off the bomb in his car, creating chaos. He had the remote on the roof. Then immediately start firing on the crowd.

When he was discovered, he immediately started firing.

He wanted a mass casualty event, using a former president would forever ensure his place in history.
 
Last edited:
Link to live broadcast
File attached of information requested


Below are the details for the hearing:

WHAT:
Hearing titled “Oversight of the U.S. Secret Service and the Attempted Assassination of President Donald J. Trump”

DATE: Monday, July 22, 2024

TIME: 10:00 AM EST

LOCATION: 2154 Rayburn House Office Building

WITNESS: Kimberly Cheatle, Director, U.S. Secret Service

WATCH: The hearing will be open to the public and press and will be livestreamed online at U.S. House Committee on Oversight and
Accountability.
 

Attachments

Last edited:
Rehoboth Beach, Del. — The Secret Service has acknowledged it denied some requests by Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump's campaign for increased security at his events in the years before the assassination attempt on him at a recent rally.

In the immediate aftermath of the July 13 attack, the law enforcement agency had denied rejecting such requests. But the Secret Service acknowledged late Saturday, a week after the attempt on Trump's life, that it had turned back some requests to increase security around the former president.

The reversal is likely to be a key focus of a congressional hearing Monday where Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle is expected to appear before lawmakers who have been expressing anger over security lapses that allowed a 20-year-old gunman to climb atop the roof of a nearby building at Trump's rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, and fire his weapon.

Trump was wounded in the right ear, one rallygoer was killed and two others were injured. Secret Service gunmen killed the shooter...
 
Moo....
I think TC was going to set off the bomb in his car, creating chaos. He had the remote on the roof. Them immediately start firing on the crowd.

When he was discovered, he immediately started firing.

He wanted a mass casualty event, using a former president would forever ensure his place in history.

Wow, my mind never went there. You could well be right. What a sick, evil man.
 
Trump revealed that security agents were alerted that someone was on the roof with a gun before he even walked out on stage - and did not stop him from doing so.
RSBM. This seems inconsistent with the timeline as I previously understood it. Has it been verified?
 
Officials said the snipers spotted the suspect, 20-year-old Thomas Matthew Crooks, on the roof of a building outside the security zone at the rally Saturday in Butler, Pennsylvania, at 5:52 p.m. ET. The shooting happened at 6:12 p.m. ET, 20 minutes later, the sources said.

 
RSBM. This seems inconsistent with the timeline as I previously understood it. Has it been verified?

I think we need to remember that these quotes from President Trump are snippets taken from his interview with Jesse Watters that will appear on his show tomorrow night. Watters apparently interviewed President Trump, asking him questions about the events of Saturday, July 13th, and other sources are reporting on President Trump's responses. These are not unsolicited statements by President Trump, and we aren't seeing the full context of the remarks by just listening to these snippets. Tomorrow night we will get the full context when we see the entire interview and questions, dialogue, etc. We do know that President Trump is not being critical of his Secret Service detail, he has supported them throughout this tragedy, but it would be crazy if he didn't have questions about how the SS in charge of the operational details and overall security of the event handled the information that is now public knowledge in the media.
 
Washington — During Abraham Lincoln's presidency, anyone could come to the White House and see him. Come they did: mothers looking to have their sons released from military service, wives urging that their husbands be freed from prison after resisting the draft, others who simply wanted to meet the president.

“Some only wanted comfort in a terrible time, and that he freely gave," James B. Conroy wrote in his book "Lincoln’s White House: The People’s House in Wartime."

The world has vastly changed since the 1860s, and so has protection for presidents. Protective details have grown in size, responsibility and technology over more than a century of the Secret Service protecting presidents.

When presidents leave the White House, they are accompanied by a phalanx of Secret Service officers and agents. Cars can no longer drive past what is often dubbed “the people's house” at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. The fence has been raised, and don't even try to get past the gate without an appointment or badge.

The number of people under guard also has grown as vice presidents, former presidents, candidates, family members and more get protection...

I haven't posted on this thread, for various reasons, primarily because I avoid any threads that have even a whiff of being potentially political, because I abhor what politics in the US has become today. However, I have been watching and reading avidly since Butler, PA is my hometown. Although I live in Pittsburgh now, I was on my way there that evening for something else that night, in the city/downtown. As I was about halfway there, my phone started just blowing up with texts from friends and family in the area. Like many of you, I am appalled and flabbergasted at what transpired that day, the failures, and the multiple opportunities that there were to have nipped this in the bud before this became a tragedy.

After reading articles from multiple places and the really good analysis and questions posed here by our ever-savvy sleuthers, I am in the camp that the failures and circumstances of the event lie squarely on the shoulders of the SS, who was responsible for 2 key elements that could have made a difference (all IMHO):

1. Designating the Perimeter - To me, this was the first and biggest failure of security that occurred, given the range of the weapon used and rifles available to pretty much every citizen in the US today. How could buildings within shooting range of the stage where Trump was going to be NOT considered in the inner perimeter, especially since there was clearly an ability to get up on to a rooftop using an AC unit? I can see if the only way to get up on the roof (if say, the building was 10 stories) was through the building, that securing any entrances would be enough, but that clearly wasn't the case. While it's true that Butler County is Trump Country and he is beloved there, no place is immune from a disgruntled lone gunman.

2. Communications/Chain of Command Confusion - Although less is known about what exactly the chain of command and ability of local police to reach and be heard by the SS teams, it seems to me that the delays from when the shooter was spotted at every point were either not taken seriously or not communicated to those who could do something about it until it was too late. Arrrgh! There were SO many opportunities to have stopped the shooter. For once, this might have been the time to act in the "Shoot First, Ask Questions Later" mode, that LE is criticized (sometimes rightfully) for in circumstances where it isn't even warranted. Heck, how about we just ask Thomas Crook some questions in a friendly manner, "Hey son, what are you doing? What's in the bag? Why do you have that range finder? Can we see some ID?" [This one I am going to criticize local LE for - let's, you know, err on the side of caution here people!] I think that had that happened, it might have been enough to spook Crooks, and we would all be reading about a man being questioned and let go or perhaps found with a gun instead of what transpired.

On that point of Communications....were the SS dismissive of any warnings from local LE, thinking "What do these small-time cops know about anything?" ... or was there some chain of communications that bounced from person to person to person that required escalation that ultimately delayed everything?

I admit that of course I could be biased in favor of the LE in my little hometown, but I do hope that some answers will be forthcoming in the upcoming hearings and there is accountability for the failures that occurred.

And just because, I'll share some good tidbits about Butler, PA. It was an amazing, safe, and wonderful place to grow up, full of great people - and also, the birthplace of the Jeep: Butler | Butler County Tourism & Convention Bureau

What a great thoughtful post- I was inspired to go the link you provided!!! Who knew Butler was the home of the Jeep???
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
60
Guests online
163
Total visitors
223

Forum statistics

Threads
609,000
Messages
18,248,409
Members
234,523
Latest member
MN-Girl
Back
Top