UK- Major incident declared in Southport after multiple stabbings, 29 July 2024

[jackal67]

I have children of the same age group and am in the UK. Schools are very secure - usually a buzzer/intercom system to identify yourself before you are given access to the building during the school day. Playgrounds are opened up at school drop off and pick up times but then gates are locked. Our school has an 8 foot fence surrounding all of the grounds.

Out of school activities can be in a variety of places - some in schools, but others in much more open places. My kids have done cub scouts etc in purpose built buildings with security similar to school premises, but also other groups like music, dance etc where the group has hired a community building for a one off event or a regular weekly slot. These buildings are often owned and run by community groups or charities on a low budget, and are not exclusively used by children. For example, one building my kids have attended would be used for a young children’s dance group on one evening a week, but for adult learning classes, dance groups and craft groups on other evenings. It was used for lunch clubs for elderly people one day a week. You could also hire it for a party at the weekend.

This type of setting being used for kids groups in the UK is absolutely common practice.

I agree but surely it is possible to lock these venues from the inside while the class is on. Leaving doors open and propped open is a security risk IMO

 

[QB2022]

I do suspect that in hindsight propping that door open may have been against protocol, even though it is understandable when it is as warm as it is. UK buildings are designed to keep heat in, with the temp as they are currently I can very imagine that room was boiling and with no air movement.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

UK schools had their security tightened up after Dunblane to include at least one locked barrier between the public and pupils.

I hope we do not have to start locking children inside village halls and community centres. There are thousands of clubs and events like this all over the country in the summer hols - the reason this case is so shocking is that incidents are vanishingly rare.

 

[iamshadow21]

I do suspect that in hindsight propping that door open may have been against protocol, even though it is understandable when it is as warm as it is. UK buildings are designed to keep heat in, with the temp as they are currently I can very imagine that room was boiling and with no air movement.

Especially in a dance and movement program a couple of hours long, the risk of heat related illness would be far higher than a random knife attacker. The studio just got the worst luck, for this to happen there, to them. They weren't negligent, the door was ajar to try to prevent those kids from being harmed. This wasn't a threat they could anticipate... There was no warning, it was like lightning from a clear sky, indiscriminate and brutal.

MOO

 

[Skigh]

UK schools had their security tightened up after Dunblane to include at least one locked barrier between the public and pupils.

I hope we do not have to start locking children inside village halls and community centres. There are thousands of clubs and events like this all over the country in the summer hols - the reason this case is so shocking is that incidents are vanishingly rare.

I totally agree. I think the perpetrator is the only one at fault ,not the fact that the adults left a door open.

 

[dalsglen]

Especially in a dance and movement program a couple of hours long, the risk of heat related illness would be far higher than a random knife attacker. The studio just got the worst luck, for this to happen there, to them. They weren't negligent, the door was ajar to try to prevent those kids from being harmed. This wasn't a threat they could anticipate... There was no warning, it was like lightning from a clear sky, indiscriminate and brutal.

MOO

Our council have installed aircon in all council owned halls under a certain area for this exact reason, so many complaints made about how unbearably hot they were and as they all had to remain locked, the council caved.

Round my area in Scotland, Schools were locked, brownies door was locked, youth club door was locked etc. If you weren't there at bang on time then that was it, you weren't getting in. Yet you've always just been able to saunter into any council owned pool or gym etc.

30 years almost that we've lived like that, with only that one incident.

 

[scapa]

Well done to the school for acting so quickly , Many little escape artists in childcare settings !

Hah -- our youngest was the same. His nursery had small-person door handles that turned pleasingly but only opened a door when a big person turned the top one. The nursery kids spent hours on this vexing problem.

Community halls have so many different variationss and in our local area (Western Isles) buzzers and CCTV are now more standard. But in a mixed-use space on a weekend I'm not surprised that this attacker found a way in. No doubt there will be costly, time-consuming, distancing security upgrades in the wake of this horror, IMO yet another cruelty heaped on cruelties. Very little prevents a determined killer, and children have a right to play outside and dance on a Saturday and swim at the Lido or mess about in the garden without fear of murder by strangers. And that right is critical in a free society, despite the risks, IMO. It benefits us all.

Hoping for good news on the remaining injured. I lived in Cardiff during a postgrad degree and know the area where the attacker grew up well. I doubt there's much there by way of explanation. There rarely is.

 

[WiseOwl]

Teenager, 17, arrested over Southport stabbings had 'nice family'

The 17-year-old boy was born in Cardiff after his family moved from the African nation - then moved north to Merseyside about ten years ago.

www.dailymail.co.uk

rbbm
''The teenager held over the Southport stabbings was an 'introvert' who lived in a nearby village with his 'nice family', who had moved to the UK from Rwanda.''

''As a youngster he trained in karate with his father doing classes with Sensei Chico Mbakwe, 79, at St Cadoc's church hall in Llanrumney - a suburb of the Welsh capital.''

''Mr Mbakwe said the boy was a 'typical, normal five year old' who continued to train at the dojo even after his father fell out with club leaders.
Mr Mbakwe said: 'He was a good child, a normal child, who had lots of energy.
'I remember him because he continued to train with us for around three months after his father left for another dojo I own.'
Mr Mbakwe said the family were nice but the boy's father fell out with him after he failed him for his black belt grading.''

'The youngest child was very quiet, an introvert
He was quite clingy to his mum while his older brother was more boisterous and would stick his tongue out at you.''
'They must have had lots of money, it wouldn't have been a cheap rent.
'This is a lovely estate in a nice part of Cardiff.'

How many times have we seen the quiet, introvert of the family ending up being a killer, or in this case, a mass murderer. There is no excuse whatsoever for what this sick monster has done - look at those poor little girls, their whole lives ahead of them but snuffed out by this sicko.

IMO monsters like this should have to forfeit their human rights, they shouldn't have a right to anything and they are definitely not human.

 

[Skigh]

How many times have we seen the quiet, introvert of the family ending up being a killer, or in this case, a mass murderer. There is no excuse whatsoever for what this sick monster has done - look at those poor little girls, their whole lives ahead of them but snuffed out by this sicko.

IMO monsters like this should have to forfeit their human rights, they shouldn't have a right to anything and they are definitely not human.

The neighbour is remembering him when he was 5 years old ,so he could be totally different nearly 13 years later. I do agree with you that there are no excuses and what he did is indefensible.

 

[iamshadow21]

The neighbour is remembering him when he was 5 years old ,so he could be totally different nearly 13 years later. I do agree with you that there are no excuses and what he did is indefensible.

Agreed.

Vanishiningly few five year olds appear as monsters. And the vast majority of those who are difficult or troubled at that age turn out okay.

Sure, there are going to be some kids who show antisocial behaviour from infancy, but in a lot of these crimes, there isn't that kind of overt warning that they're going to be violent.

MOO

 

[Dotta]

"Taylor Swift fans ​

raise more than £100k ​

for children's hospital ​

where Southport stabbing victims were taken - ​

after pop star revealed her​

'complete shock' ​

over rampage at Swift-themed dance class."​

Taylor Swift fans raise more than £100k for children

Three little girls have now died while five others remain in a critical condition following the horrific attack that took place as they attended a themed dance class in Southport.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[scapa]

Protestors clash with police -- chants suggest specific political affiliations (rightwing / EDL etc) sigh.

Southport stabbing: chaotic scenes as police clash with far-right protesters outside mosque – as it happened

Violent clashes at street protest, hours after police released names of three children who were killed

www.theguardian.com

 

[Teeniesmum]

Yea, most places here are usually open, especially in summertime when it's warm and the doors are open to let some air in. Even school playgrounds are accessible to anyone.

I do Guides & Brownies in a small stuffy little church hall, we have the windows open and the doors wedged open as it's so hot and airless we will have to rethink this going forward. These murders are beyond my comprehension seeing the 3 little girls faces and then trying to fathom why a 17 year old would do this, I just can't.

 

[iamshadow21]

I do Guides & Brownies in a small stuffy little church hall, we have the windows open and the doors wedged open as it's so hot and airless we will have to rethink this going forward. These murders are beyond my comprehension seeing the 3 little girls faces and then trying to fathom why a 17 year old would do this, I just can't.

Yeah... The hall I did Brownies in thirty years ago was in no way air conditioned. It didn't even have ceiling fans. In Sydney. It looks exactly the same from the outside, today. The only way it was bearable in the heat was to open every door and window in the place.

A lot of these community centres for kids and other local programs are very underfunded, whatever the country, and air conditioning just isn't in the budget.

MOO

 

[Dotta]

"Crowds chanting ​

'English till I die' ​

kick down walls and throw bricks and fireworks outside mosque in Southport ​

near where three girls were killed in knife attack: ​

Riot police deployed as officers warn about​

'incorrect' ID for attacker circulating online."​

Huge crowds clash with police in Southport as activists throw bricks

Video has emerged of hundreds of protesters surrounding police vans and launching missiles at officers forcing them to flee.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Inthedetails]

View attachment 521516

Huge crowds clash with police in Southport as activists throw bricks

Video has emerged of hundreds of protesters surrounding police vans and launching missiles at officers forcing them to flee.

www.dailymail.co.uk

What the heck????

From the link, bbm.
"The violence appears to have been fuelled by false claims that the suspect was an asylum seeker who had arrived in the UK by boat which have spread online....

The force confirmed that a large group of protesters - believed to be supporters of the English Defence League – began to launch items towards a local mosque on St Luke’s Road in Southport at around 7.45pm.

One officer has suffered a suspected broken nose and police vehicles have been damaged and set on fire."

Shame on these people.

jmo

 

[Dotta]

"Thousands of mourners ​

gather at vigil ​

for three girls killed in Southport knife rampage - ​

as parents of victim Bebe King say ​

'no words can describe the devastation that has hit our family'."​

Mourners gather at vigil for three girls killed in Southport rampage

The three girls stabbed to death were today named by police as six-year-old Bebe King, seven-year-old Elsie Dot Stancombe and nine-year-old Alice Dasilva Aguiar.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[CoverMeCagney]

So now we have an apparently peaceful vigil for the victims in stark contrast to race related riots near a local mosque.

And this, folks, is why naming people via social media rumours is a STUPID thing to do.

 

[iamshadow21]

What the heck????

From the link, bbm.
"The violence appears to have been fuelled by false claims that the suspect was an asylum seeker who had arrived in the UK by boat which have spread online....

The force confirmed that a large group of protesters - believed to be supporters of the English Defence League – began to launch items towards a local mosque on St Luke’s Road in Southport at around 7.45pm.

One officer has suffered a suspected broken nose and police vehicles have been damaged and set on fire."

Shame on these people.

jmo

What these horrid people want is just to spew racism and break stuff.

The attacker was not an immigrant.

One of the victims who died was.

When they're spouting their xenophobic hate, they're attacking a kid who did nothing to deserve her brutal murder.

Shame on them.

MOO

 

[Inthedetails]

So now we have an apparently peaceful vigil for the victims in start contrast to race related riots near a local mosque.

And this, folks, is why naming people via social media rumours is a STUPID thing to do.

It was beyond rumors. It was outright FALSE INFORMATION that people are eager to believe, even when presented with the right information.

This is not off-topic, but unfortunately on-topic for this thread.

jmo