PA - infant Leon Katz murdered, twin injured, allegedly by babysitter, Pittsburgh- June 24, 2024

[steeltowngirl]

I've read 2 different stories. One, NV fell asleep and baby screaming woke her up. Two, NV left room to go to kitchen and get bottle and found infant on floor. Don't know which version is correct.

^RSBM

My money is on neither version is correct.

jmo

 

[SMK777]

^RSBM

My money is on neither version is correct.

jmo

Do you think it was more along the lines of losing her temper with an infant who wouldn’t settle down?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Do you think it was more along the lines of losing her temper with an infant who wouldn’t settle down?

I am honestly not sure what to think. I think I mentioned that I sat on a jury in a case where a toddler was left paralyzed and blind from an abusive head injury. In that case, we later learned that the defendant was covering for the actual abuser by saying it was an accident.

I believe someone lost their temper. If it was NV, it could have been frustration with the infant. It could have been anger at the parents for having been left to babysit, maybe longer than intended. It could have been anger at someone else entirely - maybe she took a phone call that set her off.

There is so much here that we don’t know yet.

jmo

 

[SMK777]

I am honestly not sure what to think. I think I mentioned that I sat on a jury in a case where a toddler was left paralyzed and blind from an abusive head injury. In that case, we later learned that the defendant was covering for the actual abuser by saying it was an accident.

I believe someone lost their temper. If it was NV, it could have been frustration with the infant. It could have been anger at the parents for having been left to babysit, maybe longer than intended. It could have been anger at someone else entirely - maybe she took a phone call that set her off.

There is so much here that we don’t know yet.

jmo

Yes, I hope investigators and the trial will get to the bottom of it. Very perplexing with the first twin at the ER while this unfolded.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

"PITTSBURGH —
The San Diego woman charged with killing one baby twin and assaulting the other while visiting the newborn's parents in Shadyside chose to waive her right to a preliminary hearing Wednesday.

Nicole Virzi, a 29-year-old psychology doctoral student, was brought from jail to court for the proceeding and the courtroom was filled with family and friends of the parents of the twins, who were present as well.
[mod edit]

San Diego woman faces trial in killing of one Pittsburgh baby twin, assault on other

Nicole Virzi, a 29-year-old psychology doctoral student, was brought from jail to court for the proceeding and the courtroom was filled with family and friends of the parents of the twins, who were present as well.

www.wtae.com

 

[Cedars]

Yes, I hope investigators and the trial will get to the bottom of it. Very perplexing with the first twin at the ER while this unfolded.

I'm not sure whether investigators will be able to explain what exactly she did and why. That will be up to her, I think, and chances are she'll protect herself rather than be completely honest about her own state of mind.

I think clinical psychologists are expected to have very strong control over their own tempers. They are expected to never 'lash out' with violence at patients, for example.

JMO

 

[SMK777]

I'm not sure whether investigators will be able to explain what exactly she did and why. That will be up to her, I think, and chances are she'll protect herself rather than be completely honest about her own state of mind.

I think clinical psychologists are expected to have very strong control over their own tempers. They are expected to never 'lash out' with violence at patients, for example.

JMO

True, but what do you suppose happened, with the first twin, and then the second? The jury will surely want to know. Was she under the influence of drugs or something? The whole thing makes little sense to me. It’s not like she was some child care worker who snapped from too much daily stress. She was visiting friends in the academic community. It just isn’t adding up for me….

 

[Cedars]

True, but what do you suppose happened, with the first twin, and then the second? The jury will surely want to know. Was she under the influence of drugs or something? The whole thing makes little sense to me. It’s not like she was some child care worker who snapped from too much daily stress. She was visiting friends in the academic community. It just isn’t adding up for me….

I agree, it's very puzzling. Drugs are always possible, though I think first responders/police would have noticed.

IMO, it's something very weird to do with her state of mind, and possibly her relationship with the mother or something. Perhaps the first incident led to the second ie someone might get even more deeply into whatever the crazy was, while being alone waiting/anticipating being blamed for it?

JMO

 

[SMK777]

I I agree, it's very puzzling. Drugs are always possible, though I think first responders/police would have noticed.

IMO, it's something very weird to do with her state of mind, and possibly her relationship with the mother or something. Perhaps the first incident led to the second ie someone might get even more deeply into whatever the crazy was, while being alone waiting/anticipating being blamed for it?

JMO

Yes, it might have escalated. But if so, then she was definitely not normal, but a ticking time bomb. To be a PhD student, visiting people in another city within the academic community and to offer to baby sit — and then to let things get that crazy and out of hand is just way beyond the norm.

Picture yourself in these circumstances, could you possibly have let these events happen?

As I said earlier, we’ve all seen stories about the child care workers, some of them with secret addictions issues, who are maybe uneducated, overworked or stressed and then snap.

But this was a very different situation, almost festive, visiting another city and meeting fellow academics: And she the daughter of a prominent specialist— I am just baffled.

I feel like I’m missing a big part of the story….

 

[Ray_of_hope]

^RSBM

My money is on neither version is correct.

jmo

True, I meant that I didn't know which version of the story to the police was correct. But I do agree with you that neither is what really happened. Great point.

 

[Curious Me]

Did NV lose patience and self-control because she didn't know how to deal with crying infants. MOO, there are times babies can be very demanding and require super human patience. My kids were pretty easy babies, but I know sometimes a fussy baby persistently wailing and crying tends to drive the loving parents crazy, but that's their child.

(Once, years ago, persistent noise caused a tenant in the below apt. to go upstairs and start stabbing the person who lived there to stop the noise.)

On the other hand, NV just got into town that week, not bonded to those babies. She may have thought she knew how to handle babies and ran into unexpected fussiness. Go ahead, run a search "baby's frantic crying can drive you crazy" and there's plenty of results and crazy is the common word. Of course, most parents don't feel anger and many have prepared themselves by reading up on infant care and how to deal with a fussy baby. Wondering if NV lacked all patience or tools, despite all her academic accomplishments. All MOO here.​

 

[Cedars]

...Once, years ago, persistent noise caused a tenant in the below apt. to go upstairs and start stabbing the person who lived there to stop the noise....

RSBM
So, to me, that is not a natural, normal reaction. Persistent noise might cause a person to make complaints, or look for another place to live, or, childishly, thump on the ceiling with a broom, but IMO it wouldn't cause 99.999% of people to get a knife and stab the person. IMO, that is the behaviour of someone with a deeply disturbed mind who probably has long-held violent fantasies.

JMO

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Did NV lose patience and self-control because she didn't know how to deal with crying infants

Although that does happen with immature impulsive babysitters, it really shouldn't, because they are just there for some hours. They could just go to another room. Just walk away from the crying baby. It's so different being the babysitter for a few hours than being the parent 24/7.

 

[Curious Me]

RSBM
So, to me, that is not a natural, normal reaction. Persistent noise might cause a person to make complaints, or look for another place to live, or, childishly, thump on the ceiling with a broom, but IMO it wouldn't cause 99.999% of people to get a knife and stab the person. IMO, that is the behaviour of someone with a deeply disturbed mind who probably has long-held violent fantasies. JMO​

I'd say you're probably correct, @Cedars. You'll all probably be interested to know, the woman that stabbed the upstairs neighbor was arrested, taken away, and got evicted. It was considered breaking her lease agreement by getting violent, and she had to move out asap.

She was never a friendly person, and came across to everyone as a sour puss. She had some kind of social issues, but not visible anger. It's hard to imagine some people having seething violent thoughts. Maybe she did. MOO, I don't think she had violent fantasies so much as a serious inability to cope and deal with social matters normally. Some people hide it until they can't hide it anymore and that may be NV. Just sharing and all MOO.

​

 

[Curious Me]

...Just walk away from the crying baby....

An hour can seem like an eternity and it's hard to ignore a wailing screaming baby. Hope most sitters don't take that route. We don't know, maybe she'd never watched a baby before. Hmm, maybe that's what she did... walked away covering her ears and left Leon in a precarious location, on the edge on a countertop unsecured in his bouncer seat. I know doctors have deemed it intentional abuse though, not accidental. ​

 

[Rita7]

True and the crying and swelling or 'bump' to his head would have been noticed by the parent, NV stated that she had given a bottle, burped infant and changed two diapers. She would have noticed a bump. NV reported that the infant fell from bouncer because he was in the bouncer and when she returned, the infant was on the floor and crying. I've read 2 different stories. One, NV fell asleep and baby screaming woke her up. Two, NV left room to go to kitchen and get bottle and found infant on floor. Don't know which version is correct.

So, as far as we know, NV has changed description of the tragic events at least twice.
And I just wonder, could that be used by prosecutors and jury as consciousness of guilt evidence to prove NV's guilt? IMHO yes.

 

[SMK777]

Although that does happen with immature impulsive babysitters, it really shouldn't, because they are just there for some hours. They could just go to another room. Just walk away from the crying baby. It's so different being the babysitter for a few hours than being the parent 24/7.

This is what I had thought in relation to this situation: You’re nearly 30 years old, you’re a PhD student and the daughter of a wealthy specialist; you’re visiting another city to meet some online friends who have praised your work; you offer to babysit their 6 week old twins so that they can enjoy their one year wedding anniversary and Father’s Day.

Surely you can hold it together for one evening, even if the infants are crying and won’t settle down. Unless she was on drugs or extremely unstable, there seems no reason why anything had to go so terribly wrong.

 

[dulcinea]

Some people are very triggered by loud or unpleasant noises and sounds. It doesn't matter if the noise lasts a few seconds or an hour. It doesn't matter how old the person is, their profession, or anything else. If someone is triggered, they are triggered. Logical thinking goes out the window. It matters not what the rest of us would do or how a normal or rational person would handle the situation. I am not convinced she was triggered by crying, but she might well have been. I'm getting vibes of a different kind from the little information we have.

 

[SMK777]

Some people are very triggered by loud or unpleasant noises and sounds. It doesn't matter if the noise lasts a few seconds or an hour. It doesn't matter how old the person is, their profession, or anything else. If someone is triggered, they are triggered. Logical thinking goes out the window. It matters not what the rest of us would do or how a normal or rational person would handle the situation. I am not convinced she was triggered by crying, but she might well have been. I'm getting vibes of a different kind from the little information we have.

I guess that may very well be true. I may be viewing it too narrowly.
But can you expand on your last sentence?

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

True, but what do you suppose happened, with the first twin, and then the second? The jury will surely want to know. Was she under the influence of drugs or something? The whole thing makes little sense to me. It’s not like she was some child care worker who snapped from too much daily stress. She was visiting friends in the academic community. It just isn’t adding up for me….

I have been wondering if perhaps this is a stalker type case and the idea to try to harm the family and traumatize one of the parents might have been the motive for the visit. Trauma was a research focus no?

Not sure we will ever know, so much comes down to inner thoughts and emotional state. Perhaps some sort of electronic forensics could shed light on the genesis of plans for the visit. Am curious if she attended their wedding the prior year, were they social friends even at that level? JMOOO.

I think the surviving baby may have emotional trauma from loss of twin and from injuries at a non-verbal age. There may even be lasting physical/sexual/emotional harm that continues from the injury itself. JMOOO. All so tragic.

I suspect she will take a plea but given the nature of the injuries to 1st baby and rage to both, have to wonder if she experienced physical and sexual abuse as a child herself. Not in any way an excuse but perhaps recreating trauma unconsciously. The violence toward both babies is so extreme and sad, directed toward genitals and the head. So vulnerable. JMOO.

Calculated and controlled harm to first, assuming she did it, and rage toward the second. For someone who values intellect, even if the 2nd baby had not died, he could have been grievously and permanently brain injured. <modship - suspect's family members are off limits, as always> MOOO.