Silver Alert CA - Stephanie Menard, 73, Daniel Menard, 79, & Cuddles, white Shih Tzu, Olive Dell Ranch nudist resort, unlocked car found, Redlands, 24 Aug 2024

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I've had a hard time keeping up in this thread so maybe I missed this, but it's the first I've heard about a potluck and karaoke.

AUG 30, 2O24
A woman who said she called 911 Sunday to report the missing couple said she was concerned after they didn't show up for a regular Friday potluck and karaoke night at a neighbor's house. On Sunday, Irene Engkraf said she was on her way to church when they noticed the abandoned car. They checked the house and went to church, but there were no signs of the Menards at either location.

She then entered the Menard's house and, after finding the purse and cellphones, called 911, she said. There were no signs of a disturbance.
More on this neighbor IE.


Irene Engkraf, who identified herself as the concerned neighbor who called police, told reporters ahead of the Friday news conference that she and the couple usually attended Sunday church service together.

But last Sunday, the couple didn’t turn up for church and she saw their car sitting “abandoned.”

Using a spare key to enter the Menards’ home, Engkraf saw Stephanie Menard’s purse and both of the Menards’ phones. Then she called 911 and started calling hospitals, searching for news of her friends.

“It felt so odd not to have them sitting right next to me” at their usual Wednesday Bible study, she said. “But I know God’s with them. He’s with them wherever they are.”
 
More on this neighbor IE.


Irene Engkraf, who identified herself as the concerned neighbor who called police, told reporters ahead of the Friday news conference that she and the couple usually attended Sunday church service together.

But last Sunday, the couple didn’t turn up for church and she saw their car sitting “abandoned.”

Using a spare key to enter the Menards’ home, Engkraf saw Stephanie Menard’s purse and both of the Menards’ phones. Then she called 911 and started calling hospitals, searching for news of her friends.

“It felt so odd not to have them sitting right next to me” at their usual Wednesday Bible study, she said. “But I know God’s with them. He’s with them wherever they are.”
Thank you. I hadn't seen this either.

Do you know who supposedly saw them on Saturday?
 
Injustice collectors often commit crimes that are extremely heinous and senseless. Like Columbine, Dunblane, Port Arthur, Isla Vista, Erfurt, Sandy Hook, Parkland, Santa Fe, Virginia Tech, Uvalde, Bath, Las Vegas, Happyland, Oklahoma City, and 9/11.

But this crime strikes me as extremely heinous and senseless.

JMVHO.
 
Seems like it was a fairly recent build too. Started it about two and half years ago.
(Sorry, wasn't able to remove the amp link.)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/ktla.c...h-for-missing-elderly-couple-from-colton/amp/

Neighbors said they knew the 62-year-old as “Sparky,” and some described him as a loner, but also a nice person.

One neighbor, John Hills, said he remembers when Sparks started digging underneath his home.

“About two and a half years ago, he borrowed my mule in order to excavate a basement under his trailer,” Hills told KTLA’s Shelby Nelson. “He told me he needed to build a space that would keep him cool during summer because he was having a hard time affording the electricity.”
If his real reason for making the space was to keep cool during summer and spend less on electricity, that would actually make sense. As far as I know, that area can get very hot in the summer, and what I thought was a deck on top of Sparks's RV may actually have been screening around a large air conditioner.

Of course, we don't know if that was the real reason or if it was just something he told the neighbor whose mule he borrowed. The neighbor who gave him rides to Home Depot didn't say that he said that -- she said he just referred to "projects." So he may have had other motives.

JMO
 
Wrt the use of armored assault vehicle, and the destruction of the house.. Redlands police received huge budget increases over the last few years. Some of that money was earmarked for “ specialized law enforcement equipment”. Redlands is a small community that has a high rate of property crime, but a low rate of violent crimes. For example, last year they had zero homicides and 15 instances of gun use in an aggravated assault. 80 instances of a gun being used in a robbery. I gotta think that the opportunities for police to use their new armored vehicle are few and far between. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they are seizing upon even the smallest pretext to put that thing to use.


 

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Why would the resort allow him to dig under his home and build a bunker? It appears people knew he was doing it, so that makes me curious why neighbors wouldn't be concerned about it making their homes unstable. This is the type of project that should require permits and professionals. We saw what happened with the battering vehicle. All just my opinion.
 
And you don't think those other crimes weren't equally, if not more, heinous?? They were all heinous and senseless. That is the terrible point about injustice collectors.
Just my opinion, naturally.

I was responding to the following post, which to me intimated "injustice collectors" committed mass murder.

Injustice collectors don't need to commit murder at all. I just wouldn't be surprised if he was one.

That was my point.

Silver Alert - CA - Stephanie Menard, 73, Daniel Menard, 79, & Cuddles, white Shih Tzu, Olive Dell Ranch nudist resort, unlocked car found, Redlands, 24 Aug 2024

JMVHO.
 
Thank you. I hadn't seen this either.

Do you know who supposedly saw them on Saturday?

A couple people have raised this question. I have not seen an answer about who reported seeing the Menards on Saturday. If 'Sparky' reported seeing them Saturday AM he would have had an incentive to throw off the timeline of their disappearance. I wonder if anyone saw the Menards on Friday 8/23/24?
 
More on this neighbor IE.


Irene Engkraf, who identified herself as the concerned neighbor who called police, told reporters ahead of the Friday news conference that she and the couple usually attended Sunday church service together.

But last Sunday, the couple didn’t turn up for church and she saw their car sitting “abandoned.”

Using a spare key to enter the Menards’ home, Engkraf saw Stephanie Menard’s purse and both of the Menards’ phones. Then she called 911 and started calling hospitals, searching for news of her friends.

“It felt so odd not to have them sitting right next to me” at their usual Wednesday Bible study, she said. “But I know God’s with them. He’s with them wherever they are.”
More on this neighbor. Residents could have really active social lifes at the ranch.


Irene Engkraf, a neighbour and close friend of the Menards, described Sparks as a “loner” who mostly kept to himself.

“He would come out and he probably said no more than two words to anybody. He didn’t socialise with a lot of people here,” Engkraf said. “I know Dan and him had conversations, but nothing that would cause him to do this. I don’t think the [Menards] had any grudges, they were loved by everyone here, that’s what’s so puzzling. They were a lovely couple.”

Engkraf said she last spoke with Mrs Menard on August 22 during their weekly poker night.
Snip

“They were always there for each other. Stephanie would never leave Dan alone by himself, even when she’d come down to the clubhouse or come to play farkle,” Engkraf said. “I could just see them holding hands and comforting each other. That’s how they were … So why, why them? Or what was his reason? What was he seeking?”
 
He tried to kill himself but the gun did not work…
There were who knows how many perfectly working guns aimed right at him, waiting for him to so much as make a move... surprised he didn't make a move (except to surrender).

Or maybe he tried, but found the cops on that force are just not as trigger-happy as the ones around here (and many other places apparently) and/or know the meaning of the word de-escalate.
 
More on this neighbor. Residents could have really active social lifes at the ranch.


Irene Engkraf, a neighbour and close friend of the Menards, described Sparks as a “loner” who mostly kept to himself.

“He would come out and he probably said no more than two words to anybody. He didn’t socialise with a lot of people here,” Engkraf said. “I know Dan and him had conversations, but nothing that would cause him to do this. I don’t think the [Menards] had any grudges, they were loved by everyone here, that’s what’s so puzzling. They were a lovely couple.”

Engkraf said she last spoke with Mrs Menard on August 22 during their weekly poker night.
Snip

“They were always there for each other. Stephanie would never leave Dan alone by himself, even when she’d come down to the clubhouse or come to play farkle,” Engkraf said. “I could just see them holding hands and comforting each other. That’s how they were … So why, why them? Or what was his reason? What was he seeking?”
This is very speculative, but I wonder whether Sparks might have been jealous of the closeness and intimacy of his neighbors Stephanie and Dan Menard.

Everyone says they were a lovely couple. Maybe that's part of what bothered him?

JMO
 
This is very speculative, but I wonder whether Sparks might have been jealous of the closeness and intimacy of his neighbors Stephanie and Dan Menard.

Everyone says they were a lovely couple. Maybe that's part of what bothered him?

JMO

But doesn’t it seem particularly difficult to hold a grudge when everyone is naked all the time? I’m not really understanding the social dynamics at play here. And not in a judgey way, it’s just in my mind everyone would be in a somewhat vulnerable state. Seems like the kind of person who kills his neighbor over tree trimming is way too uptight for a nudist resort. Maybe the Menards ability to fit in, relax, make friends and enjoy the community is what bothered him. Meanwhile he is quietly in the corner uncomfortably raging over minor issues. Moo
 
This is so very sad and scary. I am confused, and apologies if I've missed pertinent details.

This was a nudist resort...like a clothing optional type place? If this guy had an issue with that, why was he there? Is that why he killed this poor couple? I'm in Colorado, there are clothing-optional places here. People can be nude, or have clothes. At least some years ago, on certain days, clothing is required and some years ago they called it "clothing required" and "family days". I truly don't know the details of those resorts or details, but I could probably find out if anyone were interested. But I *think* there are still some clothing optional places here that don't require clothes on any given day, but I have no idea how that relates to children. You know, but given that, I don't even know how that applies here since this couple was elderly and presumably didn't have children running around naked with them, please correct me if I'm wrong.

This is sad and scary to me personally because with elderly parents. Or parent I guess, my Dad passed away earlier this year, but they were RV'ers who went to many different places and my sister and I always were worried about people taking advantage of them or robbing them. Did I miss the motive here? Surely not just because they were naked. ???

And, this might sound terrible sorry, I'm SO SAD about the dog!! Like why??? Poor baby.
 
This is so very sad and scary. I am confused, and apologies if I've missed pertinent details.

This was a nudist resort...like a clothing optional type place? If this guy had an issue with that, why was he there? Is that why he killed this poor couple? I'm in Colorado, there are clothing-optional places here. People can be nude, or have clothes. At least some years ago, on certain days, clothing is required and some years ago they called it "clothing required" and "family days". I truly don't know the details of those resorts or details, but I could probably find out if anyone were interested. But I *think* there are still some clothing optional places here that don't require clothes on any given day, but I have no idea how that relates to children. You know, but given that, I don't even know how that applies here since this couple was elderly and presumably didn't have children running around naked with them, please correct me if I'm wrong.

This is sad and scary to me personally because with elderly parents. Or parent I guess, my Dad passed away earlier this year, but they were RV'ers who went to many different places and my sister and I always were worried about people taking advantage of them or robbing them. Did I miss the motive here? Surely not just because they were naked. ???

And, this might sound terrible sorry, I'm SO SAD about the dog!! Like why??? Poor baby.

I don’t think anyone is saying that nudity was the motive. It’s just an interesting and perplexing twist (to me anyway) to the standard scenario of a feud between neighbors turning deadly.
And yes, poor dog. ☹️
 
But doesn’t it seem particularly difficult to hold a grudge when everyone is naked all the time? I’m not really understanding the social dynamics at play here. And not in a judgey way, it’s just in my mind everyone would be in a somewhat vulnerable state. Seems like the kind of person who kills his neighbor over tree trimming is way too uptight for a nudist resort. Maybe the Menards ability to fit in, relax, make friends and enjoy the community is what bothered him. Meanwhile he is quietly in the corner uncomfortably raging over minor issues. Moo
I agree. By saying that Sparks might've been jealous of the Menard's closeness, I did not mean to imply that he might not also have been jealous of their social ease.

I don't think this being a nudist resort would affect the ability to bear a grudge one way or the other. While nudists may be a little more vulnerable because they're naked, presumably that's something one gets used to. Though nudists are presumably open-minded about clothing, and that might extend to other things, I'm sure plenty of them have prejudices about other issues.

JMO
 
Baker said the remains were found in bags located in a concrete bunker underneath Sparks' home.

"We had a city crew with a camera that we use to evaluate sewer blockages. They were able to run that camera into that space and verify the presence of the evidence," said Baker.

"There were no tunnels that we can tell," he added. "There is a space about five feet deep...and it goes back maybe to the back of the property, which is a mobile home."

 

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