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There have been times when I've found myself feeling sorry for them, and for the loss of their daughter I do, but you are so right when you say how they completely betrayed JB, her memory, their friends, etc, in the effort to save their asses. I think God is forgiving, but you must seek...

"I have more understanding of Patsy now and why she steadfastly holds to the "I did not do it" claim. I think this was an accident and she had convinced herself that she did NOT intentionally do it, so therefore she did not do it and what good will it do for her to go to jail, Berke needs her...

Right back at ya Solace :o .

Solace, :clap: UK, To me the sexual abuse angle does not fly. To you, it does. I trust my instincts as I'm sure you trust your own. I see the douching theory as logical.

UK, You say.... "Why should Patsy apply an adult product to such a young child, if it were not such a serious homicide, then the use of such a product on a child may suggest it was being used to remove evidence of sexual abuse?" Why would Patsy bleach her daughter's hair? Or why would she...

:blushing: Thank you NP. I agree about the douching being repulsive but it's the only thing that makes sense to me. One other thought regarding Patsy which makes me know she was involved in the death of her daughter...if it were truly an intruder...if an intruder broke into the house that...

UK, "But Coroner Meyer noted that she had been wiped down after bleeding since there were blood smears on her thighs and no matching blood stains on her genitalia corresponding with those on her underwear! Which means her urine soaked longjohns were ignored in favor of removing the blood!"...

Well, you have found someone who firmly believes in the douching theory as you do. I have a strong instinct about this one. I don't think chronic sexual abuse was happening in that house. I just don't. Dysfunctional and weird, yes. The pagaents, the over-the-top Mom, the disconnected Dad...

UK, "If she was wiped down prior to her death, how do you explain the blood smears on her size-12 underwear and that of her genitalia? If her wipe down was to remove feces, why did they leave her feces soiled pants/jeans lying on the bathroom floor, this is just as negligent as leaving her...

Agreed, the staged sexual assault was done to point away from the parents. A parent would NEVER do that, right? I don't think it was to hide a previous rape, I think it was to direct police towards a stranger, an intruder.

Solace, I voiced my opinion on the douching issue back in November and a poster SLAMMED my theory. I did not persist because I am new and not an experienced poster. But I think you are right. I think the damage to the hymen was from douching. I don't think she was sexually abused. She was...

UK, My counterpoints in red. "Not dark enough to prevent her from being sexually assaulted either digitally or with the paintbrush handle, part of which may have been left inside her?" I think JB was unconcious...she did not fight at all. I think a flashlight was used to help the stager...

Remember, the staging was taking place in a dark basement (maybe the flashlight was used to assist). They certainly didn't turn any lights on down there (neighbors would have seen). So the fact that JB had urine on her longjohns is absolutely no surprise. Can you imagine the sheer panic of...

I agree about the cocktails...can you imagine how exhausted she must have been? Even a glass of wine makes me want to just lie down on the couch...I can't imagine getting home and having to finish packing and the million other things she had to do to get ready for the trip to Michigan (which...

KISS? Not sure what this is.

You know Solace, this kind of wild speculation reminds me of the pro-ramsey camp. Crazy speculation like maybe the intruder brought the pineapple in a tupperware container into the house, because after all Patsy denied JB eating it... No offense to anyone here but any talk of sex parties and...

Solace, right on. I could not agree more.

SD - Something I have always wondered about and would like your opinion...in John and Patsy's private moments in the years after JB's death, do you think there were ever times they honestly discussed what occurred the evening of 12/26/96 or do you think they always maintained (pretended) the...

Please do not be offended. NO, I am not saying you have no compassion. I think your defense of the Ramsey's is clouding your judgment on this one. A hospital and a grisly crime scene are different. As a parent I could not walk away as easily as the Ramsey's did. No offense to the loss of...

Just been following this interesting discussion.... Snowqueen...no matter what you say, escorting a six year old to the morgue IS an act of love. If it were my daughter I would NEVER have allowed her to go ALONE. Especially after what had happened to her. JonBenet was abandoned. If I were...