Would Jen have had a tough waterproof case for an expensive camera and lens? They did a lot of hiking, camping, and kayaking. The camera would probably be smashed but what if it had an intact memory card. If a bag like that washed ashore, it might contain the answers to many questions about what happened. They took photo ops, everywhere, and may have even taken one there since it was a such a scenic spot.
CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #1
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Would Jen have had a tough waterproof case for an expensive camera and lens? They did a lot of hiking, camping, and kayaking. The camera would probably be smashed but what if it had an intact memory card. If a bag like that washed ashore, it might contain the answers to many questions about what happened. They took photo ops, everywhere, and may have even taken one there since it was a such a scenic spot.
EstrellaEspectral
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From the area and I just want to clear a few things up...
We take our kids to festivals and there is no problem with it.
We take our kids to protests and most protests are peaceful. Some get violent towards the end by which time the children are no longer present.
There are lots of weird half naked people running around this city. That's normal for us. "Keep Portland Weird"
Waldorf is very popular. Lots of my friends children are in Waldorf schools.
NONE of this is a cult.
Also would like to point out that it has NOT been confirmed that this was intentional or a murder. Let's make sure that it's confirmed before we call people murderers.
Like I said, I have friends that knew them. I did not. I just saw a lot of posts and thought I'd educate on what Portland is like.
We take our kids to festivals and there is no problem with it.
We take our kids to protests and most protests are peaceful. Some get violent towards the end by which time the children are no longer present.
There are lots of weird half naked people running around this city. That's normal for us. "Keep Portland Weird"
Waldorf is very popular. Lots of my friends children are in Waldorf schools.
NONE of this is a cult.
Also would like to point out that it has NOT been confirmed that this was intentional or a murder. Let's make sure that it's confirmed before we call people murderers.
Like I said, I have friends that knew them. I did not. I just saw a lot of posts and thought I'd educate on what Portland is like.
flourish
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UltraViolet4545
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Which YouTube video was that? Does anyone have the link?
Poppyflower
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Thank you.
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A few reminders seem necessary:
Members are allowed to speculate, but wild speculation is not allowed. Your speculation must be reasonable and based on some known fact.
If you state something as fact, you must provide a link to substantiate it; otherwise please make it clear if you are stating your opinion (i.e. JMO, IMO, MOO). We don't want opinions to be repeated as fact later in the thread.
If you have a problem with a post, use the Alert feature to let us know. Do not lecture, chastise, or try to moderate the thread on your own or tell others how/what to post.
Please ensure you are familiar with The Rules and post accordingly.
:tyou:
Members are allowed to speculate, but wild speculation is not allowed. Your speculation must be reasonable and based on some known fact.
If you state something as fact, you must provide a link to substantiate it; otherwise please make it clear if you are stating your opinion (i.e. JMO, IMO, MOO). We don't want opinions to be repeated as fact later in the thread.
If you have a problem with a post, use the Alert feature to let us know. Do not lecture, chastise, or try to moderate the thread on your own or tell others how/what to post.
Please ensure you are familiar with The Rules and post accordingly.
:tyou:
Waldorf schools are private schools and parents pay a lot of money for the privileged education.
EstrellaEspectral
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A lot of my friends have gotten scholarships for their kids to go. They seem to be doing really well in them. I thought I read someone saying it was part of a cult and I just wanted to clarify that it wasn't. It is VERY popular in this area.
<modsnip>
Here's some simple facts: the crash was intentional, three bodies were found outside the vehicle (not seat-belted in) and three are presumed washed away by the strong ocean current:
"An SUV carrying a large, free-spirited family from Washington state accelerated straight off a scenic California cliff and authorities said Sunday night the deadly wreck may have been intentional. ... Baarts said the electronic information combined with the lack of skid marks or signs the driver braked led authorities to believe the crash was purposeful.
...
The missing children may have been washed out to sea, authorities say. ... "This specific location is very difficult to search because the ocean currents and tides are strong, ..."
...
The two women, both 38, were found dead inside the SUV, while three of their children — Markis Hart, 19, Jeremiah Hart, 14, and Abigail Hart, 14 — were discovered outside the vehicle."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/hart-tribe-family-suv-cliff-intentional-1.4601948
Here's some simple facts: the crash was intentional, three bodies were found outside the vehicle (not seat-belted in) and three are presumed washed away by the strong ocean current:
"An SUV carrying a large, free-spirited family from Washington state accelerated straight off a scenic California cliff and authorities said Sunday night the deadly wreck may have been intentional. ... Baarts said the electronic information combined with the lack of skid marks or signs the driver braked led authorities to believe the crash was purposeful.
...
The missing children may have been washed out to sea, authorities say. ... "This specific location is very difficult to search because the ocean currents and tides are strong, ..."
...
The two women, both 38, were found dead inside the SUV, while three of their children — Markis Hart, 19, Jeremiah Hart, 14, and Abigail Hart, 14 — were discovered outside the vehicle."
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/hart-tribe-family-suv-cliff-intentional-1.4601948
Whiteorchids
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Im a photographer it was an expensive DSLR setup. Many of the very expensive pro cameras and lenses are weather sealed. There is no way I would use mine on a kayak. I do take my hiking and camping in my backpack it does get heavy. I saw a nice setup around Jens neck at one of the events. Im sure Jen took the photos on a Sarahs FB and Im pretty sure the birthday video for Sarah was taken by Jen. My DSLR takes cinematic footage like that as well.
I have read the comments as well. Some people are unfamiliar with Waldorf and Montessori education philosophies and because it is different, it is perceived as strange, cult-like, or even like something out of Nazi Germany. It's just another education philosophy, one that values pre-technology life skills. There's nothing strange about an education that values music, language, art and experiential learning.
EstrellaEspectral
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They said based on the information they have at this time they believe it was intentional. They have not confirmed it yet. They might confirm it tomorrow, but I don't believe they have yet. I respectfully disagree that this is a "fact" at this moment.
Whiteorchids
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http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-mendocino-crash-search-20180402-story.html
Finding the three bodies in the ocean if they're there would present logistical challenges and safety hazards, Barney said. Sonar equipment that could image the seafloor is ineffective because of the rocks, Barney said. The sandy shore has made the water so murky it's challenging for submerged divers to see anything. The water is cold and the currents push toward the cliff face, adding more risks for divers, Barney said. With that in mind, Barney said the Sheriff's Department was going to consult with ocean current and human decomposition experts on Monday to formulate a plan. Authorities want to identify areas where the children's bodies could appear.
"The naturally decomposing gasses in the human body will often times float the body to the surface at some point," Barney said.
Finding the three bodies in the ocean if they're there would present logistical challenges and safety hazards, Barney said. Sonar equipment that could image the seafloor is ineffective because of the rocks, Barney said. The sandy shore has made the water so murky it's challenging for submerged divers to see anything. The water is cold and the currents push toward the cliff face, adding more risks for divers, Barney said. With that in mind, Barney said the Sheriff's Department was going to consult with ocean current and human decomposition experts on Monday to formulate a plan. Authorities want to identify areas where the children's bodies could appear.
"The naturally decomposing gasses in the human body will often times float the body to the surface at some point," Barney said.
Seeker404
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Such a tragedy as this just makes the emphasis that our country have many citizens ready to step in and provide safe shelter for each child when it' becomes apparent as here that the existing arrangement is unsafe. Our adoptive families need their own safety net and it's barely possible when those willing to adopt in the first place are the exception and not the rule. The Good Lord bless those that do.
Yeah, and you can read in my posts and the links how "privileged" the education is and what esoteric BS education those parents pay a lot of money for. Also, the way you worded it makes it sound like parents just like to show off that they can afford to pay a lot of money for their children's education. Or "education".
Black, or lets say non-white children go to these schools as well, and even if they have teachers who never use the "N"-word or never mention any of Steiner's racist teachings, they still believe that white people are the most developed race and they WILL treat non-white kids differently.
And paying a lot of money to have your children learn about Atlantis? That's something to be proud of ...
Everything they teach children there are things that only one person made up - Rudolf Steiner. There is no real science taught or anything. And the thing is, even here where we had it all over the media a couple of years ago about the racism, there are so many parents who just think it's just an "alternative" school were the children are a lot more free, etc. Just out of ignorance.
With being from the other end of the world (almost) I learned a lot about Portland here and it does help me understand this tragic case a lot better. And how everybody around them never saw anything wrong going on and even now talk about how wonderful the 2 women were. Shocking and sad.
Whiteorchids
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California authorities said at a news conference on Sunday that they now believe the Harts vehicle may have purposefully accelerated off the cliff along the highway. Officials cited information pulled from the SUVs software.
At the news conference, Capt. Greg Baarts with the California Highway Patrols Northern Division told reporters that the SUV was stopped at a flat, dirt pull-off area before it sped off the steep rocky face and plunged down toward the water.
Baarts explained on Sunday that the computer information, combined with the lack of skid marks, led investigators to believe that the fatal crash was intentional.
http://people.com/crime/hart-family-vehicle-accelerated-intentional-off-cliff/
At the news conference, Capt. Greg Baarts with the California Highway Patrols Northern Division told reporters that the SUV was stopped at a flat, dirt pull-off area before it sped off the steep rocky face and plunged down toward the water.
Baarts explained on Sunday that the computer information, combined with the lack of skid marks, led investigators to believe that the fatal crash was intentional.
http://people.com/crime/hart-family-vehicle-accelerated-intentional-off-cliff/
The quoted article states that authorities "believe" the crash was purposeful. We can wait for that information to be re-stated in a few days, but that is what authorities believed yesterday.
Lilibet
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I think the Waldorf discussion emerged from the fact that the children did not use technology. Someone pointed out that students at Waldorf schools do not use technology, at least in earlier grades. And the Waldorf discussion grew legs. But the Hart children were said to be homeschooled, which is debatable, and did not go to a Waldorf School AFAIK. So the Waldorf discussion, as fascinating as it may be to some, is what we would call off topic and has nothing to do with this case IMO. 
Of course, maybe were out of topics until LE speaks again. :dunno: Any other suggestions?
Of course, maybe were out of topics until LE speaks again. :dunno: Any other suggestions?There is American and there is International Montessori. Both need degrees. Lots to learn in the Montessori method which uses the three dimensional methods of learning that I discussed earlier, even for writing sentences.
I did not realize people confused Waldorf with anything else.
I brought up the Waldorf schools as an example not because the Harts used the method, but because some people felt not using a computer was a terrible injustice done the Hart children.
I brought it up because there are educated tech parents and others who are upset by electronics for kids.
If people want to freak out more, read about Summerhill. That guy would be convicted of child sex abuse nowadays, I feel,
Whiteorchids
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According to Yukon software LE said Suv stopped on the dirt pullover than accelerated over the cliff. I wonder if that meant stopped as in foot on brake and in gear or car running but in park.
How plausible would it be they pulled over to take a rest and kids wanted to see the view of the ocean got close to the edge. Maybe it was dark? Perhaps car engine was still running as was going to only be a minute or so your now ready to leave so you take it out of park at the exact time you get distracted and look back at what kids were doing or even making sure their seatbelts were on and accidentally apply the gas pedal instead of braking? By then its too late to brake as they were already over thats why no skid marks. OMO
Its just so strange adults were belted in.
How plausible would it be they pulled over to take a rest and kids wanted to see the view of the ocean got close to the edge. Maybe it was dark? Perhaps car engine was still running as was going to only be a minute or so your now ready to leave so you take it out of park at the exact time you get distracted and look back at what kids were doing or even making sure their seatbelts were on and accidentally apply the gas pedal instead of braking? By then its too late to brake as they were already over thats why no skid marks. OMO
Its just so strange adults were belted in.
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