2008.07.03 CA's Myspace-...doesn't make sense REVISITED

[nyvictoria]

I am anxiously awaiting the trial in hopes that the truth comes out because I have no window into the A's souls to see what they were feeling and thinking at each particular moment. All I can do is look at the situation, their actions and inactions, statements to others, to come up with an good idea of what was going on. I think her July 3rd Myspace posting was VERY, VERY telling.

You could be totally correct. So, let's assume that you're last statement is spot on: "I think Cindy knew someone's dead body had been in the trunk, but never thought it could have been Caylee." Wouldn't that have been the HIGHEST LEVEL OF ENABLING POSSIBLE to think there's a been a dead body in the trunk of the car your daughter (and only your daugther) drove and not directing police to the smell, the stain, etc? In this scenario, if Caylee had been at home would they have still called the police?

Theonly1,
Brilliant work! Your theory post (prior to quoted post) would make a fabulous closing statement for SA! I completely concur. Thanks for sharing!!!
I truly believe by the time closing arguments roll around, JB et al will be :banghead: and murderer Casey will be :behindbar:

 

[RevCrim]

I am anxiously awaiting the trial in hopes that the truth comes out because I have no window into the A's souls to see what they were feeling and thinking at each particular moment. All I can do is look at the situation, their actions and inactions, statements to others, to come up with an good idea of what was going on. I think her July 3rd Myspace posting was VERY, VERY telling.

You could be totally correct. So, let's assume that you're last statement is spot on: "I think Cindy knew someone's dead body had been in the trunk, but never thought it could have been Caylee." Wouldn't that have been the HIGHEST LEVEL OF ENABLING POSSIBLE to think there's a been a dead body in the trunk of the car your daughter (and only your daugther) drove and not directing police to the smell, the stain, etc? In this scenario, if Caylee had been at home would they have still called the police?

Theonly1, thanks so much for your posts- we are very much on the same wave link- I too await the trial for answers- I really want to know what happened between June 8th and June 15th. SP claims CA stayed home from work June 1 thru June 8th waiting to see Caylee and because see never saw her, took off again 2 weeks later, and still didn't see her. Totally contradictory to CA's claims and the Father's Day at Mt Dora. If SP is correct, and she was sharp as a tack about everything else, and she believed the last time she saw CA was on the 8th, she said this several times she was so certain it was the 8th, then how did CA get Caylee, on the 15th?

GA said he last saw CAylee on the 6th,
LA, said he last saw her on the 5th, and
CA said she last saw her on the 7th. KC claimed the 9th-
One person, maybe two could be wrong, but four is too much to entertain. They didn't all follow CA because they would all have said the same date. I think this question was asked before they got together with a story.

Also, if CA felt a need to see a counselor about KC, and her problems with GA, then why did she suddenly stop going? One would think she needed counseling more then ever at this point. Especially while Caylee was gone, and all that went on from that day forth. CA knew something from that day on and I believe the cover up started. And, who was the counselor CA was seeing and has the counselor been questioned or on the witness list for the proscecution? The fact that the counselor allegedly told CA to throw KC out, should be of interest, into the behavior of KC as told by her own mother. Then it seems, CA didn't trust her own counselor to talk about what was going on and stopped going. Doesn't add up. This is when one would want a counselor. Even if the sessions can't be discussed, can the fact that CA did indeed seek counseling because of KC and GA, be used in trial to show the dyfunctionality in the home?

Everything I write is my personal opinion.

 

[Theonly1]

Theonly1,
Brilliant work! Your theory post (prior to quoted post) would make a fabulous closing statement for SA! I completely concur. Thanks for sharing!!!
I truly believe by the time closing arguments roll around, JB et al will be :banghead: and murderer Casey will be :behindbar:

Thanks. My post was more directed to what the A's might have known and when they might have known it. The A's are not on trial. My "closing statement" for Casey's trial would be different. There is just so much to lay out, I think many facts and/or pieces of evidence could be excluded and the "case" would still be rock solid (imo).

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Theonly1, thanks so much for your posts- we are very much on the same wave link- I too await the trial for answers- I really want to know what happened between June 8th and June 15th. SP claims CA stayed home from work June 1 thru June 8th waiting to see Caylee and because see never saw her, took off again 2 weeks later, and still didn't see her. Totally contradictory to CA's claims and the Father's Day at Mt Dora. If SP is correct, and she was sharp as a tack about everything else, and she believed the last time she saw CA was on the 8th, she said this several times she was so certain it was the 8th, then how did CA get Caylee, on the 15th?

GA said he last saw CAylee on the 6th,
LA, said he last saw her on the 5th, and
CA said she last saw her on the 7th. KC claimed the 9th-
One person, maybe two could be wrong, but four is too much to entertain. They didn't all follow CA because they would all have said the same date. I think this question was asked before they got together with a story.

Also, if CA felt a need to see a counselor about KC, and her problems with GA, then why did she suddenly stop going? One would think she needed counseling more then ever at this point. Especially while Caylee was gone, and all that went on from that day forth. CA knew something from that day on and I believe the cover up started. And, who was the counselor CA was seeing and has the counselor been questioned or on the witness list for the proscecution? The fact that the counselor allegedly told CA to throw KC out, should be of interest, into the behavior of KC as told by her own mother. Then it seems, CA didn't trust her own counselor to talk about what was going on and stopped going. Doesn't add up. This is when one would want a counselor. Even if the sessions can't be discussed, can the fact that CA did indeed seek counseling because of KC and GA, be used in trial to show the dyfunctionality in the home?

Everything I write is my personal opinion.

The part of your post that I bolded has bothered me a lot!!! I found it far fetched that Cindy says she didn't know the right date was the 15th until the day before the bond hearing. Says LE brought the Father's Day video to her the day before the hearing and that's when she realized the error. The bond hearing was on the 22nd. If I have the dates right that means they all had six full days to rethink and examine their recollections -- and still didn't discover the date was wrong. I don't buy it!!!!

 

[Intermezzo]

Re my bold: I feel foolish asking this because I should certainly know the answer, but have we ever seen any text messages between CA and KC between period 6-16 and 7-15? I remember reading many, many pages of KC's text messages, but none to CA. I also remember CA stating that there were text msgs between them during that period. I think I remember..... Duh!

Hi Friday
Cell records revisted thread and the first post is a link to cell records
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78281

Briefly:
the Anthony's mostly call Casey's cell with few texts UNITL:
July 1 to about july 5 it shows an increase in the times(I lost count at about 60 attempts) someone from the Anthony Home(I will assume it was Cindy) called Casey's cell phone and beginning July 3rd Cindy and Casey texting each other quite a bit.

Of note also on July 4th texts from Lee and "sister-in-law" started between them and Casey.

These texts messages have not been released, at least to my knowledge.

To me, as the July 4th holiday approached Cindy was frantic about locating Casey and Caylee. I am sure she wanted if not both at least Caylee home for the holiday.
By this time IMO Cindy knew Casey was avoiding them like the plague and keeping Caylee away.

 

[sua_sponte]

Cindy takes a martyr role

When hasn't Cindy taken a Martyr role?

Cindy talks at work about how things are with KC and Caylee. How Cindy watches Caylee all the time, etc.. Poor Cindy and all she does for her family, sort of stuff.

Yet, we hear of others who watch Caylee when KC was suppose to be at work. IT wasn't just all on Cindy. And then there was the Nanny.. aghm.. Which would mean that KC's work day was during the time when her parents would be gone and "nanny" would have to watch Caylee. IT sounds like Cindy would refuse to watch Caylee, unless KC was working. Other wise, there would be no need for a "Nanny." Which means, in the evenings, when Cindy would be home from work, so would Caylee and Casey. IT would be only on the special events at night, that Cindy would be watching Caylee.

If Caylee was always around CIndy when she was off work, she could claim she was 'watching', when in reality, she would just be one of many adults there at the momment. And very likely, much of what she did for Caylee, she did because she wanted to. Not because she had to.

I was still living with my Parents when I had my first child. I can tell you that my parents and my aunts/uncles considered my child entertainment. Think "spoil and give back"... What I thought was best for my child, was often ignored. Even in my face. Very frustrating. My Mother did much, most by choice. Even take my child from my arms to do it.

That is what I see Cindy doing. Just taking over. And what KC does, isn't good enough. And never will be.

After watchin this case for months, this is what kind of 'help' I'm really starting to believe Cindy gave KC and Caylee. Her reward was a second chance with a baby girl and playing 'martyr'. She got attention for being a martyr. We have seen how she acts, when she doesn't get what she wants. I doubt she just recently started doing that...

Cindy was way to attached to that baby. And she wasn't planning on giving that baby up. When I read that note Cindy posted on Myspace.. I don't get from it that she thinks Caylee is dead. Just that Caylee has been taken from Cindy's life and she is bemoning how unfair it is to her (Cindy.) it's a pity party she is having.

The guilt comment, I believe is coming from deep in her mind, that she is at fault for some of the situation. But she is denying it and excusing herself from any blame, cause she did such and such. KC is at fault. She mentions KC talking about her being controling.. Yet she talked to her coworkers about KC...

The Guilt situation wouldn't have been Caylee's death. But how Cindy handled Casey in the last couple of years. That she might have done something different, etc. Wither it's true or not, becide the point. Parents second guess themselves at time. And it's always easier to see other routes that could have been taken. Different words that could have been said.. all after the fact. Such is life.

wow Spangle - I totally agree with everything you just said. I have a martyr mil that sounds just like this too. Everything you said is exactly how my first kid's early years played out as well.

 

[Jolynna]

This struck me as very odd too, when Cindy's interview first came out. Of course, the SA will be able to impeach the statements that they communicated every day with cell phone and text records. I did not go thru all the cell phone/text records myself, but did see most of them, and I do not remember seeing any texts/calls to or from Cindy on the released information. Did anyone else see calls and/or texts during June 16-July15 to/from Cindy?

We haven't seen those or what Tony told police KC and he talked about June 15 & 16. We haven't heard what AH & KC discussed during their 36 minute conversation on June 16. We haven't seen video or a transcript about what MH in CA told LE when they went to see him.

They exist, I am sure. They just haven't been released yet.

 

[kashell]

I am anxiously awaiting the trial in hopes that the truth comes out because I have no window into the A's souls to see what they were feeling and thinking at each particular moment. All I can do is look at the situation, their actions and inactions, statements to others, to come up with an good idea of what was going on. I think her July 3rd Myspace posting was VERY, VERY telling.

You could be totally correct. So, let's assume that you're last statement is spot on: "I think Cindy knew someone's dead body had been in the trunk, but never thought it could have been Caylee." Wouldn't that have been the HIGHEST LEVEL OF ENABLING POSSIBLE to think there's a been a dead body in the trunk of the car your daughter (and only your daugther) drove and not directing police to the smell, the stain, etc? In this scenario, if Caylee had been at home would they have still called the police?

You know, I would have! But.. maybe they wanted to get KC's side of the story first. Maybe they wanted to get Caylee safe at home before they did anything. I got the feeling that the entire month that KC was gone was extremely stressful and anxiety ridden for the whole family (Remember Lee telling KC -paraphrasing-I don't want you screwing the family around like you've done to Mom for the last month?) Certainly wasn't the "just like every other day" feel that GA tried to give off for the last time he saw them. Or the easygoing "they were off visiting friends" feel that CA was trying to sell as fact. No, they were all emotional messes. And IIRC, George had even mentioned that he and Cindy had just reunited recently after a separation. (I'd like to know more about that, too. Are they being honest about anything?) Can you say pressure cooker?

 

[FightTheOstrich]

The part of your post that I bolded has bothered me a lot!!! I found it far fetched that Cindy says she didn't know the right date was the 15th until the day before the bond hearing. Says LE brought the Father's Day video to her the day before the hearing and that's when she realized the error. The bond hearing was on the 22nd. If I have the dates right that means they all had six full days to rethink and examine their recollections -- and still didn't discover the date was wrong. I don't buy it!!!!

I don't buy it either. A grandmother would start to recall her last day w/ her granddaughter, would realize it was Father's Day and then look @ a calendar and would have realized the wrong day had been given to LE. I believe that the incorrect dates were given so that LE would focus on the wrong dates for body dumping. If they followed her pings for the wrong week then they would not be looking in the appropriate areas.
KC thought she had figured everything out, her stupid script etc... There is a reason the wrong date was given, I'm not sure but I believe we will eventually know. The incorrect date was given in order to create her story.

 

[Jolynna]

The part of your post that I bolded has bothered me a lot!!! I found it far fetched that Cindy says she didn't know the right date was the 15th until the day before the bond hearing. Says LE brought the Father's Day video to her the day before the hearing and that's when she realized the error. The bond hearing was on the 22nd. If I have the dates right that means they all had six full days to rethink and examine their recollections -- and still didn't discover the date was wrong. I don't buy it!!!!

On father's day, George left for work at 2:30. Casey was home with Caylee the night before probably holed up in her room mad because she had to be there--it was Saturday night. On Father's Day, Cindy left in the morning with Caylee to go to the nursing home to see her dad. Lee was out of town working. Casey took off and spent the day with Tony.

Casey and Cindy had started the weekend at odds. After the big Fusian event on Friday night, Casey went home with Tony. She got a call from the Anthony house at 3 a.m. By 3:30 a.m. Casey's phone was pinging from the Anthony house. Looks like Cindy made Casey come home.

The Anthony household in June WAS a pressure-cooker. George had started a new job. They didn't have money to pay their bills and Casey was stealing. Casey was on a love high and wanting to get away just as Cindy was being told by her counselor to "lay down the hammer".

Everybody was uptight. Lots of pressure, blame and resentment. On father's day nobody even sat down and shared a meal with George.

Looking back that Sunday would be remembered as the "day of the big fight". Not Father's Day.

JMO

 

[MAMABEAR]

The part of your post that I bolded has bothered me a lot!!! I found it far fetched that Cindy says she didn't know the right date was the 15th until the day before the bond hearing. Says LE brought the Father's Day video to her the day before the hearing and that's when she realized the error. The bond hearing was on the 22nd. If I have the dates right that means they all had six full days to rethink and examine their recollections -- and still didn't discover the date was wrong. I don't buy it!!!!

Also brought down part of RevCrim post so I can think better:
Posted by RevCrim

GA said he last saw CAylee on the 6th,
LA, said he last saw her on the 5th, and
CA said she last saw her on the 7th. KC claimed the 9th-
One person, maybe two could be wrong, but four is too much to entertain. They didn't all follow CA because they would all have said the same date. I think this question was asked before they got together with a story.

I have read and thought about this and feel that it is because there were 2 huge fights. The first fight was about the check KC stole from SP. June 6-5 or 7th.

Then the second was on the 15th----Father's Day. I think Caylee told CA things about what KC had been doing that really pizzed CA off. Lil kids do tell it like it is. It could have been something like--->Caylee sleeping with KC and her boyfriend---->Mommy giving her pills--->mommy being naked--->partying --------- whatever it was that didn't set right with CA and the fight was on.

Anyway if there were 2 fights then maybe they were really confused. Maybe they had talked about the date before the cops got there and thats how they got confused.

And yes there were lots that changed to get their stories to weave together and try to make it "all right". This happens when peeps lie. I am not a lair because if I lie I can't member the lie. It is hard nuff for me to member the truth. LOL I just don't know how they can keep it all straight. Well, I guess they didn't.

 

[Paintr]

Also brought down part of RevCrim post so I can think better:
Posted by RevCrim

GA said he last saw CAylee on the 6th,
LA, said he last saw her on the 5th, and
CA said she last saw her on the 7th. KC claimed the 9th-
One person, maybe two could be wrong, but four is too much to entertain. They didn't all follow CA because they would all have said the same date. I think this question was asked before they got together with a story.

I have read and thought about this and feel that it is because there were 2 huge fights. The first fight was about the check KC stole from SP. June 6-5 or 7th.

Then the second was on the 15th----Father's Day. I think Caylee told CA things about what KC had been doing that really pizzed CA off. Lil kids do tell it like it is. It could have been something like--->Caylee sleeping with KC and her boyfriend---->Mommy giving her pills--->mommy being naked--->partying --------- whatever it was that didn't set right with CA and the fight was on.

Anyway if there were 2 fights then maybe they were really confused. Maybe they had talked about the date before the cops got there and thats how they got confused.

And yes there were lots that changed to get their stories to weave together and try to make it "all right". This happens when peeps lie. I am not a lair because if I lie I can't member the lie. It is hard nuff for me to member the truth. LOL I just don't know how they can keep it all straight. Well, I guess they didn't.

Great post, Mamabear. I always thought that CA knew BEFORE Father's Day that KC had stolen the money from the GP. I believe Caylee chattered to Cindy on the drive and Cindy heard something she didn't like.

Maybe they did begin talking of one crisis and then realized the true crisis (Caylee's death) happened a week later. Maybe there were two huge fights or maybe one long ongoing fight that week but I think they are covering now. That week seemed to bring everything to a head.

 

[Devon]

That is what I see Cindy doing. Just taking over. And what KC does, isn't good enough. And never will be.

After watchin this case for months, this is what kind of 'help' I'm really starting to believe Cindy gave KC and Caylee. Her reward was a second chance with a baby girl and playing 'martyr'. She got attention for being a martyr. We have seen how she acts, when she doesn't get what she wants. I doubt she just recently started doing that...

Cindy was way to attached to that baby. And she wasn't planning on giving that baby up. When I read that note Cindy posted on Myspace.. I don't get from it that she thinks Caylee is dead. Just that Caylee has been taken from Cindy's life and she is bemoning how unfair it is to her (Cindy.) it's a pity party she is having.

Snipped

I agree with this. I think once the pregnancy was accepted as inevitable, the baby was to be 'Project Anthony', a joint family venture but with CA as 'Managing Director' and 'Main Momma' and KC as 'Apprentice Momma'. The problem was, CA enjoyed her role far too much, and wasn't happy about letting the apprentice take control.

I'm not surprised that the lack of knowledge of Caylee's father didn't seem to bother CA, or the fact that there were no child support payments to help with the financial cost of raising Caylee, since having a contributing and involved father on the scene would have meant that he would have had a say in Caylee's upbringing and I don't think CA would have liked that at all. I assume that during the time that JG was believed to be the father she probably had no choice but to let him be involved, but I'm betting that her manner towards him probably changed after he had the paternity test done.

I also wouldn't be surprised if CA had something to do with KC giving up her job at Universal. I can see CA telling KC that her place was at home being mom to Caylee (at least while 'Head Mom' was at work) and that she didn't need to work.....CA would provide for them both....a perfect position of control. It was CA who showered Caylee with enough toys and clothes for 10 children, and CA who pampered and indulged her, over-riding KC on bedtime rules and probably many other efforts she may have made to be Caylee's 'real' Mom. It's no wonder to me that Caylee grew to favour CA over KC, or that it seems that KC may not have had the bond with Caylee that we might expect. I don't think she was given the chance.

I suppose when KC had Caylee to herself during the day she had some sort of freedom to go out and about and do things her way, but I imagine evenings and weekends were probably often a constant and tense battle of wills and it's likely that KC suffered many a painful moment when CA scored over KC and Caylee gave her affection to the indulgent 'parent' as children are apt to do.

If this was actually what things were like at Casa A's, I can see that a fake job would be an ideal way of avoiding some of the conflict, especially if the 'job' was flexible and sometimes involved evening and weekend 'working'!

Unfortunately this didn't work for KC either, because if she was out without Caylee she was a bad and irresponsible mother who was taking advantage of CA, but if she took Caylee with her, CA was phoning her all the time, wanting to know where she was, what she was doing and when she was bringing Caylee home. It's understandable that given the domestic situation, CA had a right to some basic information about KC's movements, when they would be home etc, and KC had an obligation of respect and consideration in return, but it seems that CA just couldn't let go and allow KC to be the adult true parent of Caylee that she was.

 

[bessie]

respectfully snipped

I'm not surprised that the lack of knowledge of Caylee's father didn't seem to bother CA, or the fact that there were no child support payments to help with the financial cost of raising Caylee, since having a contributing and involved father on the scene would have meant that he would have had a say in Caylee's upbringing and I don't think CA would have liked that at all. I assume that during the time that JG was believed to be the father she probably had no choice but to let him be involved, but I'm betting that her manner towards him probably changed after he had the paternity test done.

Exactly

I also wouldn't be surprised if CA had something to do with KC giving up her job at Universal. I can see CA telling KC that her place was at home being mom to Caylee (at least while 'Head Mom' was at work) and that she didn't need to work.....CA would provide for them both....a perfect position of control.

Quite possible

Great post, Devon.

 

[Friday]

i think part of the reason we're all so angry w/ cindy is that her attempts to sway our thinking are so outrageously unbelievable that it's almost a personal affront - an insult to our collective intelligence, if you will.

Snipped and bolded by me.

This deserves more than just a "thanks" from me. So, BRAVO, eddeva. Bravo. You have just summed up in one simple sentence what many of us have spent hundreds of hours and thousands of sentences trying to clarify for ourselves and others. Yours says it all.

b/c her approach doesn't work is no reason for cindy to stop using it - oh no dammit, they'll give in before i do! i think this may be where casey's refusal to drop imaginanny comes from.

And you did it again with the above. Bravo!

 

[Paintr]

On father's day, George left for work at 2:30. Casey was home with Caylee the night before probably holed up in her room mad because she had to be there--it was Saturday night. On Father's Day, Cindy left in the morning with Caylee to go to the nursing home to see her dad. Lee was out of town working. Casey took off and spent the day with Tony.

Casey and Cindy had started the weekend at odds. After the big Fusian event on Friday night, Casey went home with Tony. She got a call from the Anthony house at 3 a.m. By 3:30 a.m. Casey's phone was pinging from the Anthony house. Looks like Cindy made Casey come home.

The Anthony household in June WAS a pressure-cooker. George had started a new job. They didn't have money to pay their bills and Casey was stealing. Casey was on a love high and wanting to get away just as Cindy was being told by her counselor to "lay down the hammer".

Everybody was uptight. Lots of pressure, blame and resentment. Nobody even sat down and shared a meal with George. Looking back that Sunday would be remembered as the "day of the big fight". Not Father's Day.

JMO

Excellent post! :dance::dance:


Jolynna, I think your term...pressure cooker...was a very apt description of the Anthony household. Things were escalating, nobody was happy and everybody was blaming everybody else. Something had to give.

 

[Friday]

OMG-----I love it here. Ya'll are the best.

I agree, and it's because there are people like you among us.

 

[bessie]

CA knew precisely when she last saw Caylee, IMO.

• She's a nurse. Nurses are trained to note dates and times. It's been true of every nurse I've ever known, and I've known quite a few.
• Even in her position as an administrator, she had to be conscious of dates.
• She hadn't seen Caylee in a month when she made that statement. It's not as though she was asked to recall a date on the spur of the moment. We know from her MS post that by July 3rd, she was quite concerned. I'm sure she had reviewed all of the events over and over in her mind a million times and knew the day, date, hour and minute when she last saw Caylee.

The date discrepancy has been discussed since the beginning. Some of us came to the conclusion that CA might've lied to prevent her parents from becoming involved. She knew that if she said June 15th, LE would ask her to recall the events of that day, which would mean telling them about the nursing home visit, and she was adamantly opposed to LE talking to her parents. (Remember how she threatened not to cooperate if YM questioned her father?) In the beginning it might've seemed inconsequential to her, a little white lie that would protect her parents. After all, except for that one day she spent with Caylee, the last time she saw her was about a week earlier.

GA and LA might've been telling the truth. GA got with the game later and changed his story to June 16th. I think SP went along to protect CA. She e-mailed her sister about the FD visit. I'm pretty sure she knew the date. That's my take, FWIW. As for the tart mom, I'm not sure why she lied. Was she just confused? She sure had the 31 days down. If anyone has a theory on why she gave the wrong date, please share.

Sorry, Mods, for being OT.

 

[gogrannypop]

Excellent post! :dance::dance:


Jolyana, I think your term...pressure cooker...was a very apt description of the Anthony household. Things were escalating, nobody was happy and everybody was blaming everybody else. Something had to give.

Too bad it had to be poor little Caylee.

 

[Friday]

Bolded makes my mind jump back to----we do not know what the 2 of them said to each other. We don't know to what extent the CA/KC fights were.

CA screaming at KC that she would take Caylee away from her--kick KC out---unfit mother.

You know the "goodies"?

KC grabbing Caylee's hand and as she was leaving saying thangs like---I'll fix you old lady, you will never see "YOUR" child again. I'd rather sell her to a total stranger than let you have her-----I'll see her dead before you get her.

We just don't know what was said. If I was guessing, I would guess their fights got pretty bad.

I agree with all you've said.