2008.10.22 Nancy Grace

DNA Solves
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http://www.coronerstories.com/2005/06/02/“human-decomposition”/#
"WARNING....GRAPHIC DETAIL"
"Snipped for Space"

Rigor mortis, livor mortis, and algor mortis are relatively short-lived, but they are admittedly more helpful to an investigator when determining postmortem interval than the various stages of decomposition. Conversely, the process of decomposition is much longer, but by comparison is a very weak indicator of actual time of death because the stages are so easily influenced by the individual’s characteristics—primarily age, size, and health—and environmental variables.
A good example of environmental variables is to consider how a steak would be affected by its environment. A steak located outside will go bad much faster than a steak that is in an air conditioned kitchen. Insect activity is much more likely outside, and there is also exposure to circulation of air and sunlight while outdoors. A steak sitting on the kitchen counter will go bad much faster than a steak in the freezer. Even the steak in the freezer will go bad despite the attempt at preservation. Similarly, a body in a morgue cooler will still decompose, just at a much slower rate.

Decomposition is certainly one of the more repulsing aspects of death investigation but just as equally one of the more natural (when compared to homicides and auto fatalities). The stages of postmortem decomposition generally follow the same process. From the moment that a person dies, the body begins to break down chemically just as any other carbon-based substance does.
On average, external signs of decomposition begin to appear about 24 hours after death. The soft, moist tissue inside the body begins to break down faster than the more durable exterior surfaces of the skin. Consequently, escaping gases from inside the body often create a uniquely repulsive odor even before any external signs of decomposition are present. Moving the body to examine it or to remove it from a scene only increases the amount of the gas and smell.
As the smell becomes stronger, large areas of skin will begin to show signs of a blueish-green discoloration. This color usually starts to become visible around the abdominal region. This skin discoloration is usually accompanied by a “marbling‿ of the skin that is deep purple in color.
After death, the digestive enzymes that were previously tasked with breaking down food particles become stagnant and begin to break down the lining of the gastrointestinal tract. The resulting gases from these chemical processes will eventually cause the body to bloat at about 36 hours after death. The abdomen becomes distended and areas of soft tissue around the genitalia and the eyelids will have a “swollen‿ appearance. This swelling around the eyes is often mistaken as a sign of trauma by first responders.

A few days after death, signs of skin slippage will begin to appear. Outer layers of skin at the feet and hands will separate from underlying layers, which looks similar to a loose fitting rubber glove. Fingernails can easily be removed and areas of skin that appear to be intact may slide off when the body is handled for examination or movement. Sections of hair may also pull free if the follicles are adhered to another surface like carpet or bedding.


Can you imagine this. If she was just picking her up and moving her..skin,hair and fingernails coming off! I would be sick the rest of my life. Her worst prison has to be right in her head!
 
If I were on a jury I would have to ask myself how in the world KC moved around among her friends while Caylee was in the trunk of her car. Would not the odor cling to her clothes, her skin? She was driving that car for quite awhile. Wouldn't that smell cling to her hair and clothing.? I would think she would not be able to just wash that odor away, maybe she was bathing in perfume or something. Something just does not make sense.

I want to know why no one was driven around by KC after June 16th. Is there evidence of anyone being in her car? she drove tony's car and Amy's car and Cindy's car for a while. Where was her car? Was there anyone in her car from June 15th to June 26th? Most of her friends and family worked, so she had plenty of time to shower and air out before anyone came in contact with her - she mentioned the smell to Amy during a text message IIRC.

George seems to be the only one who was near the car on June 24th - but we all know his story of going into the trunk himself and taking gas cans back is false.
 
I appreciate the information and thank you for providing it for those interested.

I actually read something last week that made me think about the empty container of Arm & Hammer detergent found in the trunk. I read that the best way to dispose of a body involves putting it in a sealed container with detergent, a small amount of water and then heating it. Apparently this separates the soft tissue from bone and then dissolves it. I guess this is something taxidermists do. I don't know if this is something Casey did or why the detergent bottle was in the trunk-- but I wondered if her CSI-loving mind had also heard that laundry detergent is a key to pulling off the "Perfect Murder" ugh. creepy thoughts.

This just brought a whole new level of possible sickness to this case. If she did that ..ughhhhhhhhh:furious:
 
Can you imagine this. If she was just picking her up and moving her..skin,hair and fingernails coming off! I would be sick the rest of my life. Her worst prison has to be right in her head!

She had to have had her warpped in something tightly so that she wouldn't have to look at her. I just can't imagine this. I can't..I just can't.
 
Arm & Hammer came the George's lips during an interview when they were talking about the PIZZA in the trunk.

Yeah, the pizza and Arm & Hammer in trunk at the tow yard (per GA):

And we saw Arm & Hammer also on Casey's receipts (from July!). Make of that what you will...maybe she just liked to use Arm & Hammer?
 
I just posted it ~ then added a comment about the cadaver dogs.

Theory being reported that on the night of 6/15 after the fight at the parents house she wanted to go stay at Tony's apt., he said no, so she put Caylee in the car trunk with the chloroform and Caylee died ~ then Casey drove around with her in the trunk for 11 days. OK so why did the cadaver dogs hit on the backyard?

I missed the NG show, can anybody fill me in on this. Was this just a theory thrown out there? I'm actually asking about the "he said no" part. Is that in a statement we have yet to see, or just speculation?

Thx :)
 
This theory is fine but we do show her pings at (or around) the Anthony home until about 4 in the afternoon on the 16th. So it looks like she did not bolt to TonE's on the 15th.

At least not with her phone.:)
 
IIRC they were saying before that during her 1 hour of rec time is when she would be allowed to go to the comessary. I don't know for a fact but I think it's like a small store for them to "shop..at least that is what it sounded like.

Actually, most jails have a commissary LIST for inmates who are in Protective Custody or in Administrative Lockdown or just plain lockdown for not following rules.
I started out working in the jail. The commissary is to make money, so there would be a markup on the merchandise, just as in civilian retail.
In the jail I worked in, the commissary lists were filled out by the inmate, then the merchandise sent to their cells/dorms. An inmate cannot just go in and shop. The inmate checks off the mdse. to be sure they got what they asked for and then they sign the acknowledgement slip.
I did not work in the commissary, but was familiar with how it worked. I worked in Booking and would have loved to have booked Casey!
 
The Prosecutors are going to lay this case out for us in court. Thank goodness for lawyers who become Prosecutors! They could make so much more money in the private sector, but are Prosecutors because they care! They are my heros right along with LE!
 
At least not with her phone.:)

I don't think George would like under oath. After the fight maybe Casey locked herself and Caylee in her room. They left the next day just like George said. For all we know he may have not know of the fight the night before at the time they left.
 
Yes they showed her NEAR the home not neccesarily IN the home. Read back we discussed it:crazy:

i was responding to someone's statement that KC had been home that night. ur response was bizarre, you're confusing me
 
Let's not forget the neighbor saw KC's car 2/3 times (backed in), Tony prolly saw the car on the 20th (when she got the gas cans), and GA saw the car on the 24th.....all during these 11 days.

If Caylee was in the trunk that long, KC sure took a lot of chances getting caught with the body.

Unless one of the above mentioned already knew about the body...
 
But what if she searched for the chloroform in May to use it for purposes other than silencing her daughter?
Now if the search was for 'lethal dose of chloroform for 2 yr old' then that would be pretty cut and dry, but we do know that KC was going through a pretty wild stage...and she was all about impressing people..so showing up at a party with it to her would be , 'like so underground and hard-core'.It could also be a money maker if its that easy to make and there is a demand for it. And we know she needed money. She had already cleared out everbodys savings.
Seems to me that trace amounts in the car would indicate the possibility it was used to knock caylee out.
But if it was 'saturated' that would indicate an attempt to transport the chloroform and there was a spill in the trunk, or that it was used to clean the trunk.(but I'll leave that to the experts, LOL)
What if Kc was mixing up a batch, left Caylee to use her phone or whatever, and little caylee tried to mix it, or drink it?
Then the flurry of calls and the cover up...how the heck is she gonna explain that?
I'm just not convinced that the search for chloroform is proof that it was premeditated, when we still dont know the cause of death yet.

I posted this on the chloroform thread. i think if they can do this it will clear up if she had used it before.
I have seen on TV cases of death by poisoning was solved by cutting the hair’s in ½ inch (I think ½ inch) and dissolving the hair and testing for chemicals. They can tell how long someone has been ingesting a drug or poison. This being said. I wonder if chloroform can be detected in the hair? I hope they take a hair of Caylee’s and test it for chemicals. I also think they should test KC hair to see if she has ingested chloroform or any other drug since her child has been missing.
 
I usually love watching NG, but last night NG was really irritating me. She is so defensive of George and Cindy. I don't think G and C had anything to do with Caylee's disappearance, but they are clearly now keeping the "Caylee was kidnapped and still missing" story out in the media b/c they don't want their daughter to go to jail for murder. I do feel bad for G and C, but the way NG compares it to her babies and all that jazz just annoys me so much. Anyone else?
 
I usually love watching NG, but last night NG was really irritating me. She is so defensive of George and Cindy. I don't think G and C had anything to do with Caylee's disappearance, but they are clearly now keeping the "Caylee was kidnapped and still missing" story out in the media b/c they don't want their daughter to go to jail for murder. I do feel bad for G and C, but the way NG compares it to her babies and all that jazz just annoys me so much. Anyone else?

Yes, it annoys me also. Earlier in the case Nancy seemed to be her usual self and then after Cindy appeared on the show she seemed mad at Nancy until that one evening she called in and was questioning Kobe on forensics.
After that Nancy defended Geo & Cindy Lou.. I dunno...
 
Most people I know use those small bottles for their hot tubs, not pools. That would be way too expensive and it would take so many of them in a large pool.

We buy all of ours in 100 lb buckets for shock, 40 lb buckets for stablizer, 50 lb buckets of soda ash and 1 gallon size of muratic acid. (muratic acid also comes in 5 gallon and 15 gallon size) Above ground pools like they have use all of these also.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

also keep in mind the A family was having money issues-they may not have been able to buy in bulk. just trying to look @ this from different angles.
 
I usually love watching NG, but last night NG was really irritating me. She is so defensive of George and Cindy. I don't think G and C had anything to do with Caylee's disappearance, but they are clearly now keeping the "Caylee was kidnapped and still missing" story out in the media b/c they don't want their daughter to go to jail for murder. I do feel bad for G and C, but the way NG compares it to her babies and all that jazz just annoys me so much. Anyone else?

It makes me so :furious:! I want these grandparents to force their daughter to accept responsibility. I want them to want to find Caylee. It would kill my mother but she would be out looking for my daughter in every swamp in FL. That is what families do-they take care of each other, they don't cover up for each other. I'm sick of people coddling the A Family. Look @ the $ being spent to find Caylee (dead) b/c this family can't do the right thing. That $ could be used for so much more i.e. finding missing people that are still alive. The media could be used to help find missing people that are still alive. Instead we are feeding the egos of this family. Just come clean, admit what happend and help LE find your granddaughter.
 
Arm & Hammer came the George's lips during an interview when they were talking about the PIZZA in the trunk.

That little trick is noted on many of the Forensic Files and other genre shows to remove any remaining flesh in order to look for injury (cut marks indicative of stab wounds , broken bones, etc.), to determine race, gender, height, etc or to do a facial reconstruction. If little MS Muffet searched for any information re this topic, I'm sure it would have been found on her PC and might not have been released yet. I'm not convinced she was THIS smart, though.

I DO think she planned this event - just not sure how well-thought out it all was. She seems to have been more lucky thus far rather than smart.I think weather and circumstances played in her favor - and the L-O-N-G 31 days helped as well.

As always, JMHO.
 

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