2009.05.19*REVISIT* Gonzalez's attys have amended complaint by accusing Cindy Anthony

[ThoughtElf]

As in Old Folks Home or The Gangs All Here feeling:crazy:

Well, 'The Gang's All Here,' but we'll make an Old Folks exception for you, Gma. :blowkiss:

 

[ThoughtElf]

Morgan & Morgan are going to turn out to be Cindy's worst nightmare. They are like pitbulls......I just love them!:blowkiss:

Casey's, too!

 

[MissJames]

I'm encouraged by this part of a statement by Mitnik:

If Gonzalez's wins the lawsuit, how could Anthony -- an unemployed single mother who remains in the Orange County Jail -- pay any damages?

Mitnik said he didn't know.

However, he pointed out if she struck any movie or book deal in the future, money could begin to flow. If she's acquitted in her criminal case, they'll spend "20 years chasing it if there is a verdict," Mitnik said today.

An acquittal is worst case scenario, but again, these guys are determined that there will be justice for Caylee, one way or the other.

Certainly their main goal is to clear ZFG's name and gain her fair compensation. And, they also won't give up or give in and have been pivotal players in this to ensure that Caylee has a measure of justice. And, the guilty will pay - one way or the other.

I'm glad Morgan & Morgan (and Mitnik) stepped in.

Shades of OJ and the Goldman family. It was an indirect route,but OJ now sits in jail.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

I would have liked to have been a fly in the car on the ride home with the A's & BC. That's a convo I would have liked to have been privvy to. Plus I would have kept buzzing CA's ear. Drank a little of her water too!

 

[Theonly1]

Cindy should have never walked out of the Orange County jail after speaking with Casey and repeated Casey's lies to the public. Never. Especially, since she undertook to sort of be an "agent" for Casey in telling her latest story of the day to the public. When Casey lied (surprise, surprise) and said that essentially she had not been shown pictures of ZFG and not cleared that "Kissimmee" woman Cindy should have weighed the truth. At that point you had the media reporting that the police had looked into ZFG and essentially cleared her, and then you had Cindy saying otherwise (as Casey's agent). It made a bad situation worse (imo) and definitely opened the door for punitive damages.

 

[ThoughtElf]

Maybe its been explained here and I missed it but I am not really following this thread. CA has not been named in the civil suit, but is being accused of further defaming ZFG on tv and in her depo's? Unless CA is named in the suit how are these actions to be attributed to KC?
I think the click orlando piece did word it badly. I noticed he addressed this further along in the comments section below the article by saying CA was not named in the suit.

I'm not a lawyer, but if I do understand their guidance and discussion clearly, then it contributes to the 'intentional tort' aspect.

I'll try to phrase it as I understand it, and hope brighter minds will add/correct:

• In her efforts to defend KC, Cindy spoke publicly on her behalf
• Cindy admitted that she knew this was not 'the' ZFG Nanny
• Cindy did not refute this on TV, even though she stated in her depo that she knew this was not the ZFG Nanny
• by not refuting it, she perpetuated the 'myth', and thus, the damage - knowingly and willfully

DearPrudence summed it up well here in plain English:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3762590&postcount=12"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Gonzalez's attorneys have amended their complaint by accusing Cindy Anthony[/ame]

And Chezhire added some guidance on how the punitive damages are calculated here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3762832&postcount=239"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2009.05.19. Casey Anthony Civil Hearing @ 10:00[/ame]

HTH?

 

[QB.]

ah, I see, they are arguing that she spoke publicly on her behalf and further defamed her.
Why not name her in the suit as well I wonder?

 

[Brini]

Shades of OJ and the Goldman family. It was an indirect route,but OJ now sits in jail.

Sometimes Karma takes her time. But, she has a LOOOOOOONG-azz memory.

 

[RR0004]

A little OT, but Hello! bloggers have been defaming CA for the last 11 months. Everything from suggesting she may have killed caylee, to her being an alcoholic/drug addict, psychopath/sociopath etc.
I think she was very gentle in her critisim of bloggers.
And she's not out there filing defamation suits.

All CA did was repeat what was told to her, since she was speaking on KC's behalf.
There are so many lies perpetuated on here, by posters repeating misinformation they heard/read. Is that criminal? Of course not. It happens.
C'mon guys. Put aside your personal feelings and be objective.
So ZG is seeking 15 grand in damages. Poor woman cant get a job now...(neither can the A's) what was employment record like before?
Look at ZG now compared to when she first appeared BY CHOICE on national TV. Has she been job hunting, or spending her time at the salon?
JMO

There comes a time when a person has to be responsible for what they say. Hiding behing "my daughter told me to do it" is not a plausible excuse IMO for perpetuating lies. I can't remember the time when she came out and begged anyone to bring Caylee back...did you hear her say on national t.v. that Casey forgave Zanny? I'd like to see that (seriously, I wonder if she did) 'cause that was also conveyed to CA to reveal to the media. I remember the first time that ZG was interviewed her identity was hidden. I'm not sure if her coming forward with the lawsuit was the "right" thing to do, but regardless of what her past job history was, this HAS to have had an impact on her job seeking now. George's job history wasn't stellar either, but I don't think he's actively looking for any job now. How is it that they don't have to worry about money, but ZG does? She's probably living on the fly...and no I don't think she's hanging out in salons. JMHO

 

[Hell's Belle]

A little OT, but Hello! bloggers have been defaming CA for the last 11 months. Everything from suggesting she may have killed caylee, to her being an alcoholic/drug addict, psychopath/sociopath etc.
I think she was very gentle in her critisim of bloggers.
And she's not out there filing defamation suits.

All CA did was repeat what was told to her, since she was speaking on KC's behalf.
There are so many lies perpetuated on here, by posters repeating misinformation they heard/read. Is that criminal? Of course not. It happens.
C'mon guys. Put aside your personal feelings and be objective.
So ZG is seeking 15 grand in damages. Poor woman cant get a job now...(neither can the A's) what was employment record like before?
Look at ZG now compared to when she first appeared BY CHOICE on national TV. Has she been job hunting, or spending her time at the salon?
JMO

By now Cindy probably qualifies as a "public figure." The standards of proof for a public figure to prove she has been defamed are higher than the standard ZFG, who was a private citizen when all this mess began, will have to meet to prove that she has been defamed.

 

[Valhall]

By now Cindy probably qualifies as a "public figure." The standards of proof for a public figure to prove she has been defamed are higher than the standard ZFG, who was a private citizen when all this mess began, will have to meet to prove that she has been defamed.

I doubt she does, but she didn't when she did the dirty deed, and that's all that matters. Morgan & Morgan played her flapping lips like the cheap fiddle they are...she sunk her own boat when she admitted that she had been told by LE that the pic had been shown to KC, but then went with what KC told her in the jailhouse visit - all the while "unsure" who was telling the truth.

She chose to broadcast a statement about ZFG she has admitted was in doubt - and she broadcast that statement to a wide audience.

 

[kaRN]

I *think* that the amended motion to file for punitive damages included CA due to the statements she made at the end of the last depo when she was forced to admit to things she had said on TV in interviews about ZFG.

Recall he wouldn't let her back down and forced her to admit that she DID NOT refute on tv that ZFG was involved? Right after she kept insisting that it wasn't THIS ZFG.

It was right towards the end of her depo.

Yes and then she diverts the conversation to accusing Morgan of defaming her on TV. She even smugs and looks at ZG when she admits to it.

 

[RR0004]

I doubt she does, but she didn't when she did the dirty deed, and that's all that matters. Morgan & Morgan played her flapping lips like the cheap fiddle they are...she sunk her own boat when she admitted that she had been told by LE that the pic had been shown to KC, but then went with what KC told her in the jailhouse visit - all the while "unsure" who was telling the truth.

She chose to broadcast a statement about ZFG she has admitted was in doubt - and she broadcast that statement to a wide audience.

...all the while attempting to make LE look really bad.

 

[Hell's Belle]

I doubt she does, but she didn't when she did the dirty deed, and that's all that matters. Morgan & Morgan played her flapping lips like the cheap fiddle they are...she sunk her own boat when she admitted that she had been told by LE that the pic had been shown to KC, but then went with what KC told her in the jailhouse visit - all the while "unsure" who was telling the truth.

She chose to broadcast a statement about ZFG she has admitted was in doubt - and she broadcast that statement to a wide audience.

I was thinking that by seeing out Greta, LKL, GMA and the rest, not to mention speaking for her foundation, she might be considered a public figure. I agree she was initially a private citizen, but there is a good argument she sought out the press for her own ends. It's a double-edged sword.

 

[LeLe1953]

It appears CA was an unwitting accomplance because she believed Casey when she said told her that she was never shown a picture of Z.G. And that Cindy could speak on her belhalf.:doh:

Perhaps now she wished she had never listened to Casey! :banghead:

JMO

Why on earth Cindy believed anything Casey said & said yeah mom, go ahead & put it out there to the media, is beyond me. During the time Cindy was spinning the Zanny story, she was also saying "KC may have mistruths out there, but she is no murderer. I think she knew Casey lied. Wonder if her reaction would have been the same if KC had said "dont worry mom, the check is in the mail."

 

[LeLe1953]

Sometimes Karma takes her time. But, she has a LOOOOOOONG-azz memory.

Karma will win out everytime. I feel Karma is just getting started.

 

[okiedokietoo]

There comes a time when a person has to be responsible for what they say. Hiding behing "my daughter told me to do it" is not a plausible excuse IMO for perpetuating lies. I can't remember the time when she came out and begged anyone to bring Caylee back...did you hear her say on national t.v. that Casey forgave Zanny? I'd like to see that (seriously, I wonder if she did) 'cause that was also conveyed to CA to reveal to the media. I remember the first time that ZG was interviewed her identity was hidden. I'm not sure if her coming forward with the lawsuit was the "right" thing to do, but regardless of what her past job history was, this HAS to have had an impact on her job seeking now. George's job history wasn't stellar either, but I don't think he's actively looking for any job now. How is it that they don't have to worry about money, but ZG does? She's probably living on the fly...and no I don't think she's hanging out in salons. JMHO

thought this was worth repeating

 

[Themis]

The lawsuit by ZG against KC is only for about $15,000 right now because KC slandered (oral badmouthing) and libeled (written badmouthing) ZG. However, she did it to a limited group of people like LE. For that, ZG had to show actual damages. Now with punitives, it can be what lawyers call "Trebles" -- three times the amount of actual damages. It depends in part on how widely the badmouthing was spread. When CA "republished" the slander by repeating it on national television, the damages soared. Then, to get "punies" or punitive damages, ZG has to show intent. That was what the depo questions were about that CA had the chance on national television to say it wasn't ZG, but not only did she not do that, she republished the slander to a huge national and possibly international audience. The numbers could be shocking. Some have speculated that ZG and her attorney are going after CA's homeowner's insurance as a "deep pocket" of financing. Perhaps for the immediate gain. However, if punies are proven, it may be that under section 523(a) of the bankruptcy code, these are non-bankruptable debts. A judgement for punies can be renewed every 10 years so, it debt collection on a possible judgement debt can go on forever. It is also possible that the elements that might make this a punitive damages case may also exclude payment under a homeowners' policy. In debt collection, they can seize up to 25% of net, after tax, wages, tax refunds, certaikn amounts above a limit in bank accounts, drain trusts of the judgement debtor has the authority to release funds from a trust for their own benefit, seize cars or the value beyond a certain minimum, seize jewelry, and other assets. Florida has an exceptionally generous home exemption. The financial future of KC and CA could be looking mighty grim right now.

 

[Whisperer]

Themis.....The orignial suit is against Casey, correct?

Can they now go after the Anthonys in a separate suit?

And now that they have established the "Foundation", how will that impact future monetary gains and the civil suit hitting them? The Anthonys can hide every penny they have in the foundation and put the house in Lee's name. I see another OJ arising!

Can there only be triple damages on the $15,000? and that would only impact Casey, correct? I imagine the homeowners policy will cover casey also....?

 

[TrY]

Where in the lawsuit is CA named as a party to the lawsuit? If Casey doesn't have any assets and if she ends up convicted of murder, and if Casey defaults on the ZG civil lawsuit assuming that it's still a valid lawsuit down the line, what assets besides CA and GA's homeowner's insurance could Morgan and Morgan realistically get money from?

I looked at Zillow.com and the home's estimate value is about $160,000 dollars which is about 40,000 less than last June 2008. If the estimated value of the Anthony home is accurate, just how much home equity could the Anthony's reasonably have given all the financial problems they likely already have? GA and CA don't appear to be working. Is Cindy still on disability? Does George have a police pension? Where is their income coming from now?

Didn't they have to pledge the equity in their home to bail Casey out of jail the 2nd time? If GA and CA have a mortgage (or if the house is in CA's name due to GA's past credit history) wouldn't the mortgage be under water about now?