2009.06.19 FBI Decomposition Report

[Friday]

Bolded by me.

Exactly - and add to that thought the likely reaction of someone who is a coward and compulsive liar, who avoids and reinvents even the most insignificant perceived 'deficiencies' in her life and who is a master at creating her own 'reality' and then we can see that facing up to the most horrendous 'truth' that she has ever encountered is not something that KC is ever likely to do.

Don't forget that KC the narcissist also regards herself as vastly superior to the rest of us and that she's thoroughly relishing that we/the nation/the prosecutors can't figure out for absolute certain what she did to Caylee, how and when. For that reason, she will never put us out of our misery by telling us. She'll take that information to her grave.

 

[ShadowGal]

bumping

 

[countzero]

Don't forget that KC the narcissist also regards herself as vastly superior to the rest of us and that she's thoroughly relishing that we/the nation/the prosecutors can't figure out for absolute certain what she did to Caylee, how and when. For that reason, she will never put us out of our misery by telling us. She'll take that information to her grave.

Great point. However, I for one, would like to know exactly what happened when KC murdered Caylee, I am not in misery not knowing either.

I am not about to give KC or the A clan that satisfaction of them thinking they know something I don't.

So they can all take to the grave the truth but I won't be sitting by their deathbed begging to know.

 

[magic-cat]

I know the decomposition and the proof that the decomposition was Caylee (the hair) does not prove that Caylee was murdered. However, it does prove that Caylee was dead in Casey's trunk for a number of days, and that she decomposed in that deprived oxygen state for some days and that she was no longer in the car when George and Cindy picked up the car from the tow yard. It proves that Casey knew good and well that Caylee was dead and NOT kidnapped as has been her tale, and she knew this because she was IN THE TRUNK of the car. The FBI reports also demonstrate that Casey tried to clean up the decomposition with the napkins-thus telling us {the jury} that she knew she had a dead baby in the trunk and she cleaned up some of the fluids and threw that evidence into a bag that nobody but her had access to from the time it went into the trunk until it was collected from the tow yard by LE. It doesn't prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that she murdered her, but it does lend quite a heaping weight on the side of beyond a reasonable doubt. All of the lies that Casey told on the 15th and the 16th and even up until this very day all will also work against her in all of this. Add to THAT the duct tape over all of Caylee's airways, and with each bit of the circumstncial evidence compounding thus, most jurors will see that Casey did something to harm Caylee. I do not think there will be a reasonable doubt on the panel that she did not do this to her daughter. She HAD to have been the one who placed the duct tape on Caylee and this alone is going to sink her ship. Add to that the fact that Caylee was, beyond any reasonable doubt, inside of the trunk of that car, and we have a guilty verdict as sure as I am sitting her.

I am certain that there are some smoking guns, like the text messages we have not seen for instance, and some computer forensics, like from Tony's computer, that are going to assist in the cause of making sure that Casey does not set foot outside of a prison cell again for a LONG LONG time.:behindbar

 

[debbie0604]

I don't think the paper towels were used on the carpet at all. With the adipocere present on the towels, I believe they were used to clean KC's hands after handling the decomposing body directly. As I've stated before, I believe one of the visits to the Anthony home was to further "bag" Caylee after she began to decompose and her face distort. I think this is when the paper towels were used.

Also, I'm still not convinced the duct tape was put on Caylee antemortem. I'm like 50/50 on that. As I've stated before, I believe Caylee was in the trunk, either in a blanket, the laundry bag or nothing at all, and then she began to decompose - tongue protusion, fluids leaking from her mouth and nose - and then KC had to do something. So she double/triple bagged her, but before she did she taped her nose and mouth up to stop the fluid leakage.

If adipocere had formed by this time, and KC got it on her hands while handling the body, this waxy coating on her fingers could explain why there was no fingerprints on the tape. (There's also a second theory on why there weren't any fingerprints on the tape that have to do with chloroform.)

I still tend to believe that KC chloroformed Caylee for the purpose of drowning her without struggle. And I still tend to believe she didn't tape her mouth shut until she was faced with the horror and fluids of Caylee's decomposing face. I don't believe the multiple pieces of duct tape point to rage at all. I believe they point to panic...and having to handle your murdered child's swelling, rotting face while trying to keep her from seeping all over your trunk would be about as panic-inducing of a situation as it gets...especially when the tape won't stick!

Bold by me.

I respectfully disagree regarding Caylee being taped to stop leakage from decomposition. There are varying stages of decomposition. By the time that a body is undergoing "tongue and eye protrusion", this stage of decomposition also entails what is known as "skin slippage" where the body is also swelling due to gas formation and the skin will be "blistering" or "marbeling." Pathologists will describe the skin as "green-black" and oftentimes will note that the hair will be "slipping from the scalp." Other orifices are also exuding fluid. (Sorry if this is graphic). I am just saying that I can't see KC duct taping her mouth and nose along with a heart sticker in this state and then placing her in two trash bags and a laundry bag to discard in the woods. To me, it just doesn't make sense. I think she was duct taped prior to death.

 

[butwhatif?]

After re-reading some of the reports just released, I noticed something that I'm sure will be picked up by the defense regarding the paper towels and adipocere.
From the report......

'Fatty acids such as the ones detected (palmitic , stearic ,myristic, oleic ) indicate a fat decomposition product like adipocere (grave wax) present on the paper towels'.
The percentages of fatty acids found on the paper towel were approximately:
oleic/vaccenic 38%
Palmitic 33%
Stearic 23%
myristic 6%
Palmitoleic acid was also present in the sample. While the amounts of these acids can vary, the fatty acid ratios detected on the paper towels are quite consistent with those identified in human and pig decomposition studies.

It does not state that adipocere was actually present....just something LIKE adipocere.
What this report fails to mention is that these fatty acids are found in common househould and personal products. Like soap, bubble bath, make-up, moisturiser etc.
I think the way this report was written was a deliberate attempt to make people believe that the paper towels were used to clean up decomp, when it likely has a much simpler and innocent explanation.

It makes no sense anyway that it would be present on the paper towel, since it generally takes much longer than 2 wks to a month for it to form.
It does make sense that it was found on Caylees remains though.

There are two things that have really been bugging me that I cant figure out.

1. What hapened to the incisor tooth? Was it just missed in the painstaking effort of collecting evidence in those woods? Or could that missing tooth be one of the keys to figuring out what happened to Caylee? I cant understand how animal scavenging could be the reason for the missing tooth since only a few were scattered, and the ones that were, were found at the scene.

2. The multiple pieces of tape rather than one long piece wrapped around the entire skull. Why multiple pieces? One piece wrapped around multiple times would be more efficient, I would think.
Have we seen in the docs the length of the pieces of duct tape? And exactly how many? Multiple could be just two.

I am eagerly awaiting a full report on the tape. If Caylee was drugged and then the tape was placed over her mouth, then maybe the tape could have trace amounts of the drug present, since the other layers would have protected the first from exposure to the elements.

I believe the state does have a smoking gun, and the tape evidence could be it, but we dont know what they know yet.
JMO

 

[Phumi]

*snipped to point*

The PROBLEM is...and it is a real problem...everything you just stated points to a dead body in the trunk. That does NOT prove murder. It proves some warped, morbid, possibly panicked reaction, hiding the death of a child, disposing of a dead body in an illegal manner, child neglect leading to the death of a child, but not murder.

And especially not in a DP case. That's why there simply must be more than just proving she had a "deceased Caylee" in her trunk and even more than her not reporting it and even more than her partying all the while. Even with all I have seen, and my own personal OPINION on what happened, I could not with a clear conscience convict her of premeditated, capital murder based simply on the fact she freaked out and ran around with her dead daughter in the trunk and partied like it was 1999. I'm sorry, but loathing her and her behavior does not a conviction make.

There has to be more. That's why the chloroform issue is important. That's why the zenaida myspace issue is important. That's why the forensics we have NOT seen on the computers is important. There has to be more....and I believe there is.

STAY TUNED!!!

I understand what you are saying, and it would be nice if there were more, but I'm just not sure there is. I felt the same way about the Scott Peterson
case. I believed he was gulity, but there was no "smoking gun." There is already MUCH MORE in this case than in SP. The totality of the circumstantial evidence will likely be enough to push the jurors past reasonable doubt.

 

[chelle70]

how about the internet searches for "neck breaking" "household weapons"...

And how about the fact that Caylee was her own daughter? So she put her dead daughter in the trunk of the car and drove around for 2.6 days before "disposing' of her in the woods to rot. And never told anyone about Caylee being gone/hurt/'kidnapped'/dead for a month, until Cindy had to drag it out of her. This is her own daughter she did this to! Sorry, even though we may never exactly know how Caylee died, KC's actions are enough for me to send to jail for life!

 

[kashell]

I understand the impulse to put ourselves into the defense team's mindset and try to figure out how they plan to explain away all the inconsistencies in this case, but the biggest roadblock to that is this-Casey never ever said that this was an accident and that she had a panicked reaction to it. She knew that if the body were found any earlier by that "admission", that there would have been found with it evidence of murder.
I, too, believe that the duct tape was placed there either before death (COD?)or shortly after death (staged kidnapping), but not after decomposition had gotten to the point where fluids were leaking out. I firmly believe that KC never looked at Caylee again after putting her in the trunk. Even when she put her in more bags, I believe she avoided looking at her face. That would have been too much reality for her.

 

[Valhall]

And how about the fact that Caylee was her own daughter? So she put her dead daughter in the trunk of the car and drove around for 2.6 days before "disposing' of her in the woods to rot. And never told anyone about Caylee being gone/hurt/'kidnapped'/dead for a month, until Cindy had to drag it out of her. This is her own daughter she did this to! Sorry, even though we may never exactly know how Caylee died, KC's actions are enough for me to send to jail for life!

Just to clarify my position, I think KC is guilty of murder. But also to drive home the point I'm trying to make here...

read this case

http://www.doney.net/aroundaz/celebrity/martinez_frank.htm

They have to produce evidence she committed the murder. And from a juror's standpoint, they haven't released that smoking gun yet.

 

[celticthyme]

RESPECTFULLY SNIPPED

I am certain that there are some smoking guns, like the text messages we have not seen for instance, and some computer forensics, like from Tony's computer, that are going to assist in the cause of making sure that Casey does not set foot outside of a prison cell again for a LONG LONG time.:behindbar

ITA Plus the fact that this will be a jury of NORMAL PEOPLE, NO ONE PUTS A CHILD IN THE TRUNK OF A CAR . . . . DEAD OR ALIVE!
That fact alone, "sinks the ship" and they just can not avoid the 31 day thing, layers of duct tape, & body found in her neighborhood, to say nothing of the scientific evidence them is FACTS

 

[Shear22]

Just to clarify my position, I think KC is guilty of murder. But also to drive home the point I'm trying to make here...

read this case

http://www.doney.net/aroundaz/celebrity/martinez_frank.htm

They have to produce evidence she committed the murder. And from a juror's standpoint, they haven't released that smoking gun yet.

I think the difference, though, is that in the case you cited there was reasonable doubt. The wife could have shot herself in the head and committed suicide. Caylee, however, did not put duct tape over her own mouth, and I personally don't find the post-mortem-duct-taping-for-staging scenario to be reasonable.

 

[magic-cat]

Here is the catch 22.
They cannot say it was an accident UNLESS Casey testifies.
If Casey testifies then the State will tear her to shreds.
One's child, dead in ones trunk, with her airways taped shut no less, and then tossed out on the side of the road like so much trash and then the LIES does not lead one down the road of "accident" it leads right down Murder Lane.

 

[impatientredhead]

Here is the catch 22.
They cannot say it was an accident UNLESS Casey testifies.
If Casey testifies then the State will tear her to shreds.
One's child, dead in ones trunk, with her airways taped shut no less, and then tossed out on the side of the road like so much trash and then the LIES does not lead one down the road of "accident" it leads right down Murder Lane.

Defense will attempt to paint the picture that Casey couldn't have harmed Caylee and that if something did happen it was a horrible accident with a flip out afterwards. They don't have to say that is what occured, they ask every witness if Casey was a good mom, was she violent, was she a screamer, was she harsh with Caylee. Then his closing arguements will attempt to hammer the point home with photos of smiling mom and Caylee, while reiterating the good mom comments, and critizing the state's case. The physical evidence flies in the face of this picture but is really the only doubt he can paint.

 

[kashell]

Defense will attempt to paint the picture that Casey couldn't have harmed Caylee and that if something did happen it was a horrible accident with a flip out afterwards. They don't have to say that is what occured, they ask every witness if Casey was a good mom, was she violent, was she a screamer, was she harsh with Caylee. Then his closing arguements will attempt to hammer the point home with photos of smiling mom and Caylee, while reiterating the good mom comments, and critizing the state's case. The physical evidence flies in the face of this picture but is really the only doubt he can paint.

But, once again, Casey would have to admit that there had been a horrible accident and subsequent flip-out.
Ironically, since the COD can't be determined, this would be the most effective defense. Obviously the nanny story won't fly, hasn't flown since day 1. But if, (and I say if only because we don't know what the defense strategy is going to be) they try to go down the mental illness path, and say that Casey has blocked out the accidental death of her daughter in her mind, and created Zanny in her mind as a coping mechanism, and couldn't let go of it because her fragile psyche can't handle the "true" memory, then I'm afraid they might be able to pull it off.

 

[KenoshaKid]

Here is the catch 22.
They cannot say it was an accident UNLESS Casey testifies.
If Casey testifies then the State will tear her to shreds.
One's child, dead in ones trunk, with her airways taped shut no less, and then tossed out on the side of the road like so much trash and then the LIES does not lead one down the road of "accident" it leads right down Murder Lane.

My bold.

How come, Magic-Cat? (pardon me, I am a legal ignoramus!) :crazy:

 

[watchinginky]

But, once again, Casey would have to admit that there had been a horrible accident and subsequent flip-out.
Ironically, since the COD can't be determined, this would be the most effective defense. Obviously the nanny story won't fly, hasn't flown since day 1. But if, (and I say if only because we don't know what the defense strategy is going to be) they try to go down the mental illness path, and say that Casey has blocked out the accidental death of her daughter in her mind, and created Zanny in her mind as a coping mechanism, and couldn't let go of it because her fragile psyche can't handle the "true" memory, then I'm afraid they might be able to pull it off.

BBM

Her psyche isn't fragile IMO. She sure didn't have any trouble going out partying like there was no tomorrow. Even if she convinced herself the nanny did it, she wasn't behaving like a grieving "mother". She could have, at the very least, called to report her missing. KC never called....Cindy did. And while KC was talking to the 911 operator, she sounded as if they were wasting her time.

She wrapped multiple layers of duct tape around Caylee's mouth, nose and head. This sounds like rage to me. JMO

 

[LambChop]

BBM

Her psyche isn't fragile IMO. She sure didn't have any trouble going out partying like there was no tomorrow. Even if she convinced herself the nanny did it, she wasn't behaving like a grieving "mother". She could have at the very least called to report her missing. KC never called....Cindy did. And while KC was talking to the 911 operator, she sounded as if they were wasting her time.

She wrapped multiple layers of duct tape around Caylee's mouth, nose and head. This sounds like rage to me. JMO

Then there is the August 14th jail video with her parents where CA is crying saying she can't take it any more and KC laughs and says, "Why is she crying already?" That was not fragile, that was cold hearted. And to tell her parents, "I have a feeling she is close to home."

 

[watchinginky]

Then there is the August 14th jail video with her parents where CA is crying saying she can't take it any more and KC laughs and says, "Why is she crying already?" That was not fragile, that was cold hearted. And to tell her parents, "I have a feeling she is close to home."

ITA....she's taunting them. I have the information you want, but you're not going to get it. You're going to suffer and then you're going to suffer some more.

 

[LambChop]

ITA....she's taunting them. I have the information you want, but you're not going to get it. You're going to suffer and then you're going to suffer some more.

BINGO!!!! You guys wanted me out, so now I am out of the house.....are you happy now? There's your motive.