2009.06.19 FBI Decomposition Report

[impatientredhead]

BBM

Her psyche isn't fragile IMO. She sure didn't have any trouble going out partying like there was no tomorrow. Even if she convinced herself the nanny did it, she wasn't behaving like a grieving "mother". She could have, at the very least, called to report her missing. KC never called....Cindy did. And while KC was talking to the 911 operator, she sounded as if they were wasting her time.

She wrapped multiple layers of duct tape around Caylee's mouth, nose and head. This sounds like rage to me. JMO

I agree. She is not fragile at all. Keep in mind her emotional response to Caylee being found was a panic attack that she recovered from in 10 minutes and chatted about football. That attack had nothing to do with her daughter being dead. That was pure unadulterated fear for herself. Any delusions she had of no body = live child somewhere = walking were shattered with that news report.

With father's who beat and physically dominate their sons, there comes a day that dad is getting older and not at the top of his game and son is a young man and at his physical peak and power balance shifts, sometimes dramatically, sometimes subtly. In the video where Casey wants to know what in the world "she" is crying about already, I think we see that exact undercurrent. Cindy has been cold, cruel, bullied, manipulated....and Casey has learned those lessons well.

 

[watchinginky]

I agree. She is not fragile at all. Keep in mind her emotional response to Caylee being found was a panic attack that she recovered from in 10 minutes and chatted about football. That attack had nothing to do with her daughter being dead. That was pure unadulterated fear for herself. Any delusions she had of no body = live child somewhere = walking were shattered with that news report.

With father's who beat and physically dominate their sons, there comes a day that dad is getting older and not at the top of his game and son is a young man and at his physical peak and power balance shifts, sometimes dramatically, sometimes subtly. In the video where Casey wants to know what in the world "she" is crying about already, I think we see that exact undercurrent. Cindy has been cold, cruel, bullied, manipulated....and Casey has learned those lessons well.

BBM

Yes...she has learned them very well and I think that is why we are seeing all of this anger from Cindy now. She knows she has created this monster and she no longer has the control she once did.

 

[Shear22]

My bold.

How come, Magic-Cat? (pardon me, I am a legal ignoramus!) :crazy:

The defense can paint it as an accident, but I think an accident theory wouldn't come across as very believable to the jury without Casey up there saying it was an accident. She has the right not to testify, and the jury will be instructed not to hold it against her, but if they want to go the accident route she is the only one who can offer evidence to corroborate it.

 

[butwhatif?]

Here is the catch 22.
They cannot say it was an accident UNLESS Casey testifies.
If Casey testifies then the State will tear her to shreds.
One's child, dead in ones trunk, with her airways taped shut no less, and then tossed out on the side of the road like so much trash and then the LIES does not lead one down the road of "accident" it leads right down Murder Lane.

I personally agree with what you are saying, but alway try to see it from a defense perspective.....and I believe that they will say that KC's lies are not evidence of her gulit in Caylees death because they can prove that KC has always lied about everything-even long before Caylee was born.
When I was re-reading her universal interview I cannot believe the ease with which these lies spew from her mouth. Its like second nature to her. And she's had lots of practise with it.
JMO

 

[cecybeans]

I personally agree with what you are saying, but alway try to see it from a defense perspective.....and I believe that they will say that KC's lies are not evidence of her gulit in Caylees death because they can prove that KC has always lied about everything-even long before Caylee was born.
When I was re-reading her universal interview I cannot believe the ease with which these lies spew from her mouth. Its like second nature to her. And she's had lots of practise with it.
JMO

You're right about KC's lies being an implication of her lips moving, to rephrase an old chestnut. But there are more important external evidences that her pathological behavior was not simply limited to lies.

For one, although even her best friends can say she lied continuously and unnecessarily, her own mother told family members, KC's friends and allegedly a medical professional that she thought she was a sociopath. While sociopaths may be pathological liars, the term itself has a much more dangerous implication.

The well-documented fact that KC had so little respect for her family and friends' property, thought absolutely nothing of stealing from them - and not just in small ways, but hundreds and thousands of dollars (that we can even document), and was either used to or did whatever necessary to elaborately manipulate those around her so that she never had to accept responsibility for her acts, paints her as a person who does not just simply lie but had an accelerating compulsion to deprive others from what was rightly theirs. I've said many times before here that, extrapolating from that behavior pattern alone, and the fact she continuously exhhibits her complete lack of remorse (evidenced by either her lies or her angry defensive attitude when accused) she would be a likely candidate to commit the ultimate act of theft, that of life itself.

The person who probably knew her the best, her own mother, was worried enough to transmit these fears to many people, and that fact stands despite her Spindiferous attempts to erase that belief.

 

[Jolynna]

You're right about KC's lies being an implication of her lips moving, to rephrase an old chestnut. But there are more important external evidences that her pathological behavior was not simply limited to lies.

For one, although even her best friends can say she lied continuously and unnecessarily, her own mother told family members, KC's friends and allegedly a medical professional that she thought she was a sociopath. While sociopaths may be pathological liars, the term itself has a much more dangerous implication.

The well-documented fact that KC had so little respect for her family and friends' property, thought absolutely nothing of stealing from them - and not just in small ways, but hundreds and thousands of dollars (that we can even document), and was either used to or did whatever necessary to elaborately manipulate those around her so that she never had to accept responsibility for her acts, paints her as a person who does not just simply lie but had an accelerating compulsion to deprive others from what was rightly theirs. I've said many times before here that, extrapolating from that behavior pattern alone, and the fact she continuously exhhibits her complete lack of remorse (evidenced by either her lies or her angry defensive attitude when accused) she would be a likely candidate to commit the ultimate act of theft, that of life itself.

The person who probably knew her the best, her own mother, was worried enough to transmit these fears to many people, and that fact stands despite her Spindiferous attempts to erase that belief.

I so agree with your post. I especially like the part I bolded.

You are right. Cindy didn't call LE 3 times and sound more frantic with every call because she thought Caylee was safe with KC.

Cindy's worst fears were coming true.

 

[magic-cat]

My bold.

How come, Magic-Cat? (pardon me, I am a legal ignoramus!) :crazy:

What shear22 said-lol...

The defense can paint it as an accident, but I think an accident theory wouldn't come across as very believable to the jury without Casey up there saying it was an accident. She has the right not to testify, and the jury will be instructed not to hold it against her, but if they want to go the accident route she is the only one who can offer evidence to corroborate it.

and...

the courts would require some kind of "evidence" of this accident-some kind of corroboration. This could be either in the form of physical evidence, ie: some item that showed it was an accidental event, OR the testimony of an eyewitness. Since there is only one eyewitness who could testify to this fact-CASEY-then she would have no choice but to take the stand, unless she conveniently had home surveliance video running and captured the "accident" on video. Jose cannot say it was an accident without her testimony.:blowkiss:

 

[coco puff]

Here is the catch 22.
They cannot say it was an accident UNLESS Casey testifies.
If Casey testifies then the State will tear her to shreds.
One's child, dead in ones trunk, with her airways taped shut no less, and then tossed out on the side of the road like so much trash and then the LIES does not lead one down the road of "accident" it leads right down Murder Lane.

Perfect. straight to the point. And if this statement doesn't convience the jury, just show the video of KC talking about the phone call she got from Caylee the very day she was arrested. It that doesn't point out the cold hearted nature of this crime, nothing would. :furious:

 

[magic-cat]

Perfect. straight to the point. And if this statement doesn't convience the jury, just show the video of KC talking about the phone call she got from Caylee the very day she was arrested. It that doesn't point out the cold hearted nature of this crime, nothing would. :furious:

I can hear the line of questioning.

According to Miss Anthonys statements to LE she states she received a telephone call from Caylee on July 15th 2008. Now Miss Anthony, consisering that your daughter was already deceased on that date and had been deceased for some time, how is it again that she managed to call you? Please explain that to the jury as I am sure they will be hanging on your EVERY word.

Miss Anthony, it has been stated, by you, that your favorite TV show is CSI...have you never heard the words "proof of life" when dealing with a kidnapping? You must have missed any episodes that could have enlightened you to this concept, and what a shame, because without proof of life you should have ignored the "demands" and immediately involved LE.

Miss Anthony, how is it that your daughter was dead and decomposing inside of your trunk, and your car was abandoned on the 27th of June, and you managed to get a phone call from her on July 15th?

Miss Anthony, we know you were aware of the stench inside of your vehicle because you referenced it to some of your friends. We know that you were INSIDE of your trunk because it was from this same trunk that you retrieved the gas cans which you and your boyfriend stole from your father and mother's home. So can you explain this to the jury Miss Anthony? How it was a, what was it again, a squirrel that you scraped off of the frame of your car?

 

[cloud9]

Miss Anthony, how is it that your daughter was dead and decomposing inside of your trunk, and your car was abandoned on the 27th of June, and you managed to get a phone call from her on July 15th?

Truly genius!!!

 

[DotsEyes]

How long after death does adipocere form? I can't read all of this over again, so be gentle and just tell me the answer, please.

So, there was some substance like adipocere the same as that found in both decomposing pigs and humans? Well, was it adipocere or not?? Was it human or not?

This report makes it appear that she was smoking pot, eating ribs and wiping her face with paper napkins.

All I needed to hear was "not reported missing by her mother for 31 days" to know that the child was dead and mom did it. So don't worry about the jurors, they are normal people and can figure it out too.

 

[Tuffy]

How long after death does adipocere form? I can't read all of this over again, so be gentle and just tell me the answer, please.

So, there was some substance like adipocere the same as that found in both decomposing pigs and humans? Well, was it adipocere or not?? Was it human or not?

This report makes it appear that she was smoking pot, eating ribs and wiping her face with paper napkins.

All I needed to hear was "not reported missing by her mother for 31 days" to know that the child was dead and mom did it. So don't worry about the jurors, they are normal people and can figure it out too.

Typically, visible adipocere formation will begin about one or two months after death, continuing to whatever degree of ultimate completion after about two years. In bodies submerged in water, adipocere may form sooner, possibly within three weeks of death.

http://community.livejournal.com/deathcauseof

 

[Dear Prudence]

Typically, visible adipocere formation will begin about one or two months after death, continuing to whatever degree of ultimate completion after about two years. In bodies submerged in water, adipocere may form sooner, possibly within three weeks of death.

http://community.livejournal.com/deathcauseof

This is what I don't understand. I read in the report that a body in the Florida heat most likely would completely decompose in 2 - 4 weeks, especially the smaller body of a child. So, wouldn't the adipocere have to form much sooner than normal or would it just not form at all?

 

[Gma Kat]

But, once again, Casey would have to admit that there had been a horrible accident and subsequent flip-out.
Ironically, since the COD can't be determined, this would be the most effective defense. Obviously the nanny story won't fly, hasn't flown since day 1. But if, (and I say if only because we don't know what the defense strategy is going to be) they try to go down the mental illness path, and say that Casey has blocked out the accidental death of her daughter in her mind, and created Zanny in her mind as a coping mechanism, and couldn't let go of it because her fragile psyche can't handle the "true" memory, then I'm afraid they might be able to pull it off.

I think the same Kashell, it's the only defense I can think of at this point that accounts for the lying, etc.,

 

[Gma Kat]

I agree. She is not fragile at all. Keep in mind her emotional response to Caylee being found was a panic attack that she recovered from in 10 minutes and chatted about football. That attack had nothing to do with her daughter being dead. That was pure unadulterated fear for herself. Any delusions she had of no body = live child somewhere = walking were shattered with that news report.

With father's who beat and physically dominate their sons, there comes a day that dad is getting older and not at the top of his game and son is a young man and at his physical peak and power balance shifts, sometimes dramatically, sometimes subtly. In the video where Casey wants to know what in the world "she" is crying about already, I think we see that exact undercurrent. Cindy has been cold, cruel, bullied, manipulated....and Casey has learned those lessons well.

Oh impatientredhead! How I love stumbling on your posts! Re bolded: You summed this up so well! As with nearly all abusive relationships between parent and child one of two possibilities 1) day of reckonning where child stands up successfully to abusive parent and ends the relationship and/or abuse; 2) child grows up damaged from both the abuse and the inability to find one's inner strenghth - ending up in a lifetime of dysfunction and probable abusive behavior toward one's own children - coming full circle.

 

[pregodego2]

*snipped*

My turn to play Captain Obvious today, OK?

...and in the bag from Tony's apartment meaning it was post-disposal...and close to 6/27. IMHO when Casey texted Amy, "There was definitely part of a dead animal plastered to the frame of my car." @ 11:34AM 6/27...4mins after leaving G&C's and ~13mins before running outta gas @ Amscot it was because she'd just done the paper-towel cleaning @ G&C's...couldn't toss the decomp-soaked-towels out @ G&C's house. That she took a trash bag from Tony's (not a new one from G&C's) suggests she had the cleaning in mind when she left Tony's...perhaps even having @ it in Tony's parking lot...although less likely, 'cause methinks she woulda tossed it in the dumpster as she existed the parking lot there.

Just a shame she forgot to get rid of it in the dumpster that was 4 feet away when she ran outta gas :doh:

To the bolded:

This boggles me, because she was smart (and I use that term very loosely) enough to get rid of everything else. She actually covered her tracks pretty well for a person who's never killed before... and she took such great care to never let anyone find out that Caylee's poor body was in her trunk, that she was 'missing' and she even made the chloroform with no one ever noticing.... yet she forgets to trash the trashbag with a dumpster right there?

I don't know what an opposing theory could be. I don't even think there is one... but it just seems odd does it not? :waitasec:

 

[Mare10]

We know that KC had a few pet names for Caylee. Some cute, some not so cute, but do we know hat KC did not refer to Caylee has her little squirrel. Just thinkin' ya know.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

But, once again, Casey would have to admit that there had been a horrible accident and subsequent flip-out.
Ironically, since the COD can't be determined, this would be the most effective defense. Obviously the nanny story won't fly, hasn't flown since day 1. But if, (and I say if only because we don't know what the defense strategy is going to be) they try to go down the mental illness path, and say that Casey has blocked out the accidental death of her daughter in her mind, and created Zanny in her mind as a coping mechanism, and couldn't let go of it because her fragile psyche can't handle the "true" memory, then I'm afraid they might be able to pull it off.

But that would be KC's coping mechinism, how would that explain the Zanny Nanny that CA and GA knew of a year prior? This would mean, KC's coping mechinism kicked in a year prior to the "accident". I don't think that will fly either....the SA will tear that theory to shreds. Sorry JMO.

 

[Jolynna]

To the bolded:

This boggles me, because she was smart (and I use that term very loosely) enough to get rid of everything else. She actually covered her tracks pretty well for a person who's never killed before... and she took such great care to never let anyone find out that Caylee's poor body was in her trunk, that she was 'missing' and she even made the chloroform with no one ever noticing.... yet she forgets to trash the trashbag with a dumpster right there?

I don't know what an opposing theory could be. I don't even think there is one... but it just seems odd does it not? :waitasec:

BBM

It doesn't seem odd to me. I think KC did a horrible job of covering her tracks.

Casey stuffed every receipt for every purchase she made over the 31 days into her purse. That includes the receipts listing merchandise purchased with checks stolen from Amy. She used her phone every 5 minutes so she'd ping and leave a trail everywhere she went. She posed for pictures when she was supposed to be "searching for Caylee" and even posted the pictures online. She posted messages on social sites.

KC ran out of gas, didn't bother to pick up her car that smelled like decomposition for 3 days, left a resume with Amy's phone number in her car and hadn't come up with something better to say when confronted by Cindy than "Casey is sleeping at the nanny's". Casey took Amy's checks, signed her own name to one of the checks and wasted many of the checks on stuff like bras and beer. She left Caylee close to her parent's house a whole 20-30 feet off of the road just going far enough to get past the mowed grass.

Nobody was worried about Caylee not being around except for Cindy and George. It isn't rocket science to hide what nobody is looking for. Even then, KC managed to get Cindy, the mother bear who now says KC is the greatest thing since sliced bacon, riled up enough to call 911.

KC was astoundingly lazy. About everything. To me, not throwing away trash is the least of KC's bad planning skills.

JMO

 

[Searchfortruth]

BBM

It doesn't seem odd to me. I think KC did a horrible job of covering her tracks.

Casey stuffed every receipt for every purchase she made over the 31 days into her purse. That includes the receipts listing merchandise purchased with checks stolen from Amy. She used her phone every 5 minutes so she'd ping and leave a trail everywhere she went. She posed for pictures when she was supposed to be "searching for Caylee" and even posted the pictures online. She posted messages on social sites.

KC ran out of gas, didn't bother to pick up her car for 3 days, left a resume with Amy's phone number in her car and hadn't come up with something better to say when confronted by Cindy than "Casey is sleeping at the nanny's". Casey took Amy's checks, signed her own name to one of the checks and wasted many of the checks on stuff like bras and beer. She drove around with a dead body in her trunk that leaked. She dumped Caylee by her parent's house a whole 20-30 feet off of the road just going far enough to get past the mowed grass.

Nobody was worried about Caylee not being around except for Cindy and George. It isn't rocket science to hide what NOBODY is looking for. Even then, KC managed to get Cindy, the mother bear who now says KC is the greatest thing since sliced bacon, riled up enough to call 911.

KC was astoundingly lazy. About everything. To me, not throwing away trash is the least of it.

JMO

ITA, anything she did get away with (the remains not being found for six months) happened by chance. Lazy is right !