2009.10.09 Duct Tape Photos From Remains Released

[I Din Doot]

Also since the judge said we would see the photo's with the skull pixelated and we didn't see anything. Is that because it has to be done at a later time and we will see them when they are actually talked about and not just entered into evidence. TIA

WESH has pixelated pics on their site, posted by MADJGNLAW on the WS media links thread.

PS. Bond are you there???? I swear I saw a kitty cat in the background.:crazy:

 

[marspiter]

I just play the scenario over and over again the What If's... What if the Police had responded in August with the first calls and they had found her remains (4 mo earlier than they actually did)

What if they responded and found her... would there be more evidence

Her body still would have been out in the elements with animals, and insects for two months in August. So I don't think finding her remains in August would of benefited the finding of more evidence like a cause of death for example.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Dr. Utz said in his testimony "Part of the fabric from the tape was stuck to the mandible."

This is very hard to talk about because the whole scenario is so very, very sad.

I don't understand how fabric can stick to the mandible, since Dr. Utz said all the adhesive had worn away. Since there was a tropical storm, I suppose when the water receded that some fabrics from the weathered tape could become stuck to the mandible. Or perhaps Dr. Utz misspoke, because right after he said this he was talking about the hair matt and roots being attached to the hair matt along with the tape.

 

[wenwe4]

Dr. Utz said in his testimony "Part of the fabric from the tape was stuck to the mandible."

This is very hard to talk about because the whole scenario is so very, very sad.

I don't understand how fabric can stick to the mandible, since Dr. Utz said all the adhesive had worn away. Since there was a tropical storm, I suppose when the water receded that some fabrics from the weathered tape could become stuck to the mandible. Or perhaps Dr. Utz misspoke, because right after he said this he was talking about the hair matt and roots being attached to the hair matt along with the tape.

He described how the fibers on the back of the duct tape stuck to the hair initially, flesh would be decomposing but plant roots are growing thru the fibers, hair and eventually attaches to the mandible....attached to mandible with fibers from duct tape/hair/ingrown plant material - level of consistency holding the bones together...

 

[wenwe4]

In post 839 toward the bottom of the page there is an evidence photo showing the possible position of Caylee's body. Is this an actual photo of evidence or someones rendering of a possible senario?

Thanks

This is from the work done here by some of our own WS'rs, using photos that were released and filters to make out more detail.....

I have bumped the thread for you and here is the link...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95915&page=46

 

[ynotdivein]

So the jurors have had their first introduction to the duct tape that was on Caylee's face. What say our WSers?

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

It was interesting that HHJP only sustained one objection from JA while CM was doing his cross. The DT would be better off if CM did more of the cross examinations since he is obviously so much better than the inexperienced JB.

I hope CM does the cross on Dr. Utz tomorrow. I think when he does, we will have a clearer picture of how the DT is going to attack the photos of the duct tape holding the mandible in place. On CM's cross today, it sounded like he was implying the duct tape was not still attached and holding the mandible in place. Also in Dr. Utz's testimony, it sounded like he was saying it was unusual that the mandible was still there, and that the debris and hair matt and a small part of the tape adhered to the hair matt seemed to be holding the mandible in place. I will wait for the DT cross before I formulate any final opinions on the duct tape.

I do however find it rather unsettling that the skull was in an upright position at all, and presumably assisting the debris, the hair matt and the duct tape in holding the mandible in place. Just thinking about the skull at all is unsettling.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[MissJames]

It was interesting that HHJP only sustained one objection from JA while CM was doing his cross. The DT would be better off if CM did more of the cross examinations since he is obviously so much better than the inexperienced JB.

I hope CM does the cross on Dr. Utz tomorrow. I think when he does, we will have a clearer picture of how the DT is going to attack the photos of the duct tape holding the mandible in place. On CM's cross today, it sounded like he was implying the duct tape was not still attached and holding the mandible in place. Also in Dr. Utz's testimony, it sounded like he was saying it was unusual that the mandible was still there, and that the debris and hair matt and a small part of the tape adhered to the hair matt seemed to be holding the mandible in place. I will wait for the DT cross before I formulate any final opinions on the duct tape.

I do however find it rather unsettling that the skull was in an upright position at all, and presumably assisting the debris, the hair matt and the duct tape in holding the mandible in place. Just thinking about the skull at all is unsettling.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

BBM

Have you read the depo of Dr. G. ? CM asked her who put the mandible there. Her answer "God". :rocker:

 

[MissJames]

WESH has pixelated pics on their site, posted by MADJGNLAW on the WS media links thread.

PS. Bond are you there???? I swear I saw a kitty cat in the background.:crazy:

I think I saw it ,too ! :innocent:

 

[ynotdivein]

I was impressed at the assistant ME's testimony that Caylee's mandible being attached to the skull was unusual in his experience. Of all the crime scene recoveries he's been on, Caylee's was the only mandible found still with the skull.

 

[wenwe4]

I believe the duct tape experts are coming in soon..... the same data that was used in this thread to illustrate how the duct tape covered Caylee's nose and mouth - I have been predicting there will be be introduced a model, an outline, a digitized image, or a sculpture. I am now rethinking that - since the jury got to see the actual tape on the skull - maybe it was more than clear to them today...any thoughts?

 

[beach]

So the jurors have had their first introduction to the duct tape that was on Caylee's face. What say our WSers?

I felt physically ill listening to the duct tape testimony today. I got nauseated and started crying. I kept remembering this thread and all the work and tears shed while sleuthing the placement of the duct tape. I couldn't get Q104 out of my mind...thinking of Caylee's hands being bound.

I finally had to walk away from the live feed. I just couldn't take it anymore. I want to hear all of it, but like this thread at times, I had to walk away for a while. I will catch the videos later when I feel up to it. I'm glad George and Cindy chose to stay out of the courtroom.

Today was surreal for me. The reality of it all...knowing that it is really even worse than I imagined when I didn't think it could be worse that what we had discussed here... Then the rage I feel toward Casey for what she has done and what she did today - a total sham of a "breakdown" - IMO, just a ploy to pause the gut-wrenching testimony...like this is a game strategy. I understand legal strategy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't sicken and disgust me. Without a doubt, this has been the hardest day for me yet. I've had tears streaming down my face on and off for hours today.

 

[BaileyandBella]

I am confused as to the picture I saw today of the duct tape. That thinner piece at the top....was the around the back of Caylee's head?

I thought it was determined that she had 3 straight pieces of tape on the front of her face/mouth.

Thanks

 

[txsvicki]

I also have a question about the pic of the strip of duct tape just laying on the ground. Baez was questioning the expert who sarcastically said "I believe this one speaks for itself", but it didn't for me. Was this just an extra double strip of duct tape laying in the area but not on the skull?

 

[ynotdivein]

Bailey, please do read back through this thread. Many of your questions are answered here.

At just shy of 3 years old, Caylee's face was likely about 3 inches across. The three strips of duct tape across her face were between 8 and 9.5 inches long.

The Henkel duct tape was just shy of 2 inches wide, so three strips overlaid was more than enough to cover her nose and mouth.

The fact that the duct tape held her mandible in position means that it was wrapped into her hair so tightly that after she died, and after her tissues decomposed under the tape, there was enough adhesive and enough root growth to hold her mandible in position on her skull (something the ME assistant said he had never seen before IIRC).

 

[ynotdivein]

I also have a question about the pic of the strip of duct tape just laying on the ground. Baez was questioning the expert who sarcastically said "I believe this one speaks for itself", but it didn't for me. Was this just an extra double strip of duct tape laying in the area but not on the skull?

txs, please read back through this thread for more information.

IIRC, Q104 was found away from the body. There has been much speculation about whether it was originally wrapped around Caylee's wrists/arms or whether it was somewhere else on her body. It was found with or near her arm bones and showed signs of animal chewing.

 

[Pink Panther]

Bailey, please do read back through this thread. Many of your questions are answered here.

At just shy of 3 years old, Caylee's face was likely about 3 inches across. The three strips of duct tape across her face were between 8 and 9.5 inches long.

The Henkel duct tape was just shy of 2 inches wide, so three strips overlaid was more than enough to cover her nose and mouth.

The fact that the duct tape held her mandible in position means that it was wrapped into her hair so tightly that after she died, and after her tissues decomposed under the tape, there was enough adhesive and enough root growth to hold her mandible in position on her skull (something the ME assistant said he had never seen before IIRC).

Was there any discussion today regarding whether or not the duct tape could have been placed before or after death?

 

[BaileyandBella]

Bailey, please do read back through this thread. Many of your questions are answered here.

At just shy of 3 years old, Caylee's face was likely about 3 inches across. The three strips of duct tape across her face were between 8 and 9.5 inches long.

The Henkel duct tape was just shy of 2 inches wide, so three strips overlaid was more than enough to cover her nose and mouth.

The fact that the duct tape held her mandible in position means that it was wrapped into her hair so tightly that after she died, and after her tissues decomposed under the tape, there was enough adhesive and enough root growth to hold her mandible in position on her skull (something the ME assistant said he had never seen before IIRC).

What I am wondering about is how it looked circular today.

 

[ynotdivein]

Was there any discussion today regarding whether or not the duct tape could have been placed before or after death?

Hey Pink Panther. Today, there was not any discussion about this. IIRC, Dr. Garavaglia indicated in the autopsy report that the duct tape was placed "peri-mortem"--meaning either shortly before or shortly after death.

IMO the SA is being fairly methodical about presenting information to the jury, and so I expect to see Dr. Garavaglia testify sometime tomorrow.

 

[ecs5298]

What I am wondering about is how it looked circular today.

Dr. Utz explained that they took a picture of it in the position it was on the skull but after the skull was removed. That's why it was circular in shape. Because Caylee's skull formed the circle.

I too was surprised at how far around her head one of those pieces went!