2009.11.19 Defense Files Motion suggesting Kronk as Killer #4

[Tuffy]

I think LE should investigate him because although he ultimately was successful in getting LE to Caylee’s remains, his actions prior to that success are questionable. Also the inconsistencies in his statements to police are questionable. I think LE needs to investigate him thoroughly so when in court the defense tries to impeach RK and question his actions, the prosecution will be able to eliminate any doubts the defense has managed to raise. If LE does not investigate, as defense has, the defense will be able to use RK’s inconsistent statements and questionable actions to their advantage in trying to give the jury reasonable doubt as to KC’s guilt. I do not think it is necessary for the defense to prove RK actually abducted and murdered Caylee. I think they only need to prove it might be possible, to raise reasonable doubt. If LE has done a thorough investigation of RK that would make it much more difficult for the defense to try to prove it might be possible. If the Judge allows the motion to bring in RK’s prior bad acts and other circumstantial evidence they would like to bring in, then I think it is very important that LE has done a thorough investigation of RK. The items the defense would like to bring in would not show RK in a good light to the jury, and could possibly raise reasonable doubt in the minds of those jurors. As always my entire post is moo

Thank you. I thought that was what you were getting at, but wasn't sure. Do you think he has been investigated thoroughly by LE, or do you think there is more for them to do still?

 

[LambChop]

When I think back to the many many months we waited for Caylee to be found, I remember just how thankful I am for Roy K and his efforts. The day this child was discovered was a day that her family should be thankful for, so many families of the missing never get that closure. They should have thanked Roy privately and publicly.

A good defense doesn't have to accuse innocent people of a heinous crime in their efforts to defend their client.

BBM: Absolutely, Searchfortruth. So do they not realize the jurors will see this as a last ditch desperate attempt to frame someone else. Let's hope it's their last ditch effort.

Hope RK's has a better year next year than this one.

 

[cecybeans]

[/B]

Yeah I think the parents talking about an accident theory is just one of the hundreds of theories they were speculating. I am interested in the doc that says the defense thought it was an accident.

He suggested that Caylee had likely died due to an accidental drug overdose brought on by some form of PPD.

When did he suggest this? I mean was the defense actually saying that Caylee had died way back when TL was on the team? I did see TL on Ng much later after they brought the dp back. I noted yesterday on our WS news thread that TL had only visited Kc one time in jail. He was suggesting on Ng that he thought they should have went with an insanity defense. When did he have time with Kc to determine all this?

I think the defense has always gone with the soddi theory and have never changed that.

I saw the documentation of Rk being just assigned that route in August and it was RK saying that. I would like to see the details though. When did he start reading meters in the area and adjacent areas. Did his supervisor really used to live on Hopespring? (dispatch call dec 11) ? Phone records and pings. Take a look at the car he got rid of since Aug 11th (Rk interview Jan 6th) Did he actually read the Anthony meter on Aug 11th in front of their home? Was Kc at home that day? Did he meet DC or JH or GA in the front yard? Were there news stations there that day on Aug 11th? Protesters? (Rk interview Jan 6th)

I have a lot of questions for Rk. And I just hope we could clear them all up so we can move on with this case.

What do you know about Jw and the kid that found the animals? Is there a link. This sounds very interesting. I have heard it as rumor, but I thought it was way before Caylee was reported missing? Jw is a very very interesting subject and possibly tied to this link since she said she saw an man in those woods on Aug 11th between one and two pm. I do believe that Sa will impeach Jw, but pretty hard to impeach the video or pictures. Thank you for bringing these things up. And of course after reading the docs in the case, everything I say in the post is of my opinion only.

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19341482/detail.html

I can't find an exact link to TL's brief to remove the DP, but it was widely reported last year (around November I think) and blogged about extensively (I remember posting on several forums and the details were well known). I saw copies of some of the pictures he had included in the motion of KC (as a child) and read that he had cited examples of other mothers tried for murdering their children. In addition, he put forth the theory that if Caylee had died it was likely due to accidental overdose and a mental condition like PPD. I remember specifically it was widely discussed on multiple forums that PPD was unlikely to jive with KC's behavior or her psychological profile.

I can see that you are fascinated with further exploration of RK, but even if it weren't difficult to explain why may have somehow met the family the day he found the body (and if he met DC, that would be the only person at that point who might have had access to information as to the location of Caylee's remains) - it would still not answer why a month earlier human decomp had been reported by GA and several others in the Pontiac.

I did not mean to imply there was a link between JW and KW (the guy who found the animals), other than they also seem to have been interested in searching near the house (which would fit the profile of where bodies of people killed by family members end up) and that they are people who have, uh, problems in their past. This case is turning into a witch hunt for anyone and everyone who may have walked by the Anthony home, imo, regardless of how much of a stretch it is to connect them to this crime. I don't think that JW is all that credible for a variety of reasons; I read on another blog she used to frequent that she may have admitted to them she changed the dates on the photos in her computer. I don't know if that is true, but if it is, then LE certainly figured that out when they investigated her computer and has factored that in to anything she may have told them.

This crime was such a double-edged sword for so many. The public was encouraged to care about Caylee and to find her and bring her home to rest, but everyone that actually went out of their way to search ran the risk of being vilified and set up as an artificial SODDI for the defense. IMO, this will create a situation in which even people with completely spotless reputations will be reticent to help others. That's very sad, because some day a family who would be grateful for such help will find it hard to receive because people have become wary of extending their aid in case they are suddenly the fodder for fabricating a reasonable doubt scenario by the defense.

 

[LambChop]

If nothing else this case has brought to the attention of the public that attorney's like AL have no problem ruining the lives of innocent people to save the life of their clients. Like it or not it may prove to make RK even more of a hero if it stops this type of behavior in the future by the public showing their outrage.

What do they say to KC when the defense presents this theory to her? Do they encourage her to lie further and accuse an actual person? How do they sleep? I'd have more than a stomach disorder.

 

[Novice Seeker]

When I think back to the many many months we waited for Caylee to be found, I remember just how thankful I am for Roy K and his efforts. The day this child was discovered was a day that her family should be thankful for, so many families of the missing never get that closure. They should have thanked Roy privately and publicly.

A good defense doesn't have to accuse innocent people of a heinous crime in their efforts to defend their client.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:


NS

 

[sleutherontheside]

Kronk aside.................anyone that found this body would have been subject to scrutiny, suspicion, and harassment. Short of a bus full of nuns finding Caylee (while on a neighborjood door to door "sharing the good word" mission) any person who dared add a nail in KC's coffin would be subject to this smear campaign. I feel certain that if the "social history" or public records of any other defense players in this case were subject to the same scrutiny after finding a body, we would be discussing them as well. IS the defense fixed on him because they have a reason to believe he was involved? I think not. I think they are fixated on the person that found her because anyone that did, was scheduled to be the SODDI. It now makes MUCH more sense why KC was trying to "hint" to her family about Caylee's location. It makes sense that DC was being sent to the "area". IMO KC was attempting to direct those individuals that could most easily be named as the "killer" to the body. When Kronk found her....they went to plan B.

 

[JBean]

Kronk aside.................anyone that found this body would have been subject to scrutiny, suspicion, and harassment. Short of a bus full of nuns finding Caylee (while on a neighborjood door to door "sharing the good word" mission) any person who dared add a nail in KC's coffin would be subject to this smear campaign. I feel certain that if the "social history" or public records of any other defense players in this case were subject to the same scrutiny after finding a body, we would be discussing them as well. IS the defense fixed on him because they have a reason to believe he was involved? I think not. I think they are fixated on the person that found her because anyone that did, was scheduled to be the SODDI. It now makes MUCH more sense why KC was trying to "hint" to her family about Caylee's location. It makes sense that DC was being sent to the "area". IMO KC was attempting to direct those individuals that could most easily be named as the "killer" to the body. When Kronk found her....they went to plan B.

I disagree, I think they are looking to Kronk because he has just enough scandal in his background. The sensationalized kidnapping arrest,and the little bit of oddity surrounding discovery of the remains is just enough to cause people to stop and wonder.

I think innocent people stumble upon human remains in most cases of this type and I don't even remember who they are. I think RK was just spicy enough and this business of reporting it 3 times is really unusual. but I don't think this would have happened to someone that found the remains,called 911 and the remains were picked up right away.
RK's story had some intrigue and questions, all of which is out of the norm. JMHO.

 

[sleutherontheside]

JBean......do you really not think that anyone else would have been subjected to this same or similar investigation? We have seen e-mails from the A's to their PI and vice versa that finding a connection to MD would be huge, that RG was into human sacrifice, that JG had motive, that TL was involved in drugs and that Fusian was a front. What we failed to see from them OR the defense was any mention of the shady dealings of NLHF, KFN, and the party that donated reward $$. I totally see your point, but do you see mine?? There are parties with REAL and DOCUMENTED shady activities, yet none of those folks are being fingered. I find that odd.

 

[JBean]

JBean......do you really not think that anyone else would have been subjected to this same or similar investigation? We have seen e-mails from the A's to their PI and vice versa that finding a connection to MD would be huge, that RG was into human sacrifice, that JG had motive, that TL was involved in drugs and that Fusian was a front. What we failed to see from them OR the defense was any mention of the shady dealings of NLHF, KFN, and the party that donated reward $$. I totally see your point, but do you see mine?? There are parties with REAL and DOCUMENTED shady activities, yet none of those folks are being fingered. I find that odd.

Yes I do see your point.
But, imo, if a person came upon the baby, called 911 and LE came and took the remains away right then as in most cases, then that person that found the remains would not be subjected to this much scrutiny.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Yes I do see your point.
But, imo, if a person came upon the baby, called 911 and LE came and took the remains away right then as in most cases, then that person that found the remains would not be subjected to this much scrutiny.

Yep...ITA....but my suspicion here (based upon your thoughts)....would be directed more toward LE that responded and "dismissed" the claims. I know Cain was fire, but part would he play in the Kronk saga. Is he a supporting "actor" or a "main" character as many are trying to make Kronk out to be?

 

[A_News_Junkie]

I can't find an exact link to TL's brief to remove the DP, but it was widely reported last year (around November I think) and blogged about extensively (I remember posting on several forums and the details were well known). I saw copies of some of the pictures he had included in the motion of KC (as a child) and read that he had cited examples of other mothers tried for murdering their children. In addition, he put forth the theory that if Caylee had died it was likely due to accidental overdose and a mental condition like PPD. I remember specifically it was widely discussed on multiple forums that PPD was unlikely to jive with KC's behavior or her psychological profile.

Cecybeans,
Was it a brief or a report? I found this article but can't find the full report cited in the article.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...06_1_casey-anthony-death-penalty-anthony-case

 

[Novice Seeker]

JBean......do you really not think that anyone else would have been subjected to this same or similar investigation? We have seen e-mails from the A's to their PI and vice versa that finding a connection to MD would be huge, that RG was into human sacrifice, that JG had motive, that TL was involved in drugs and that Fusian was a front. What we failed to see from them OR the defense was any mention of the shady dealings of NLHF, KFN, and the party that donated reward $$. I totally see your point, but do you see mine?? There are parties with REAL and DOCUMENTED shady activities, yet none of those folks are being fingered. I find that odd.

Absolutely. Lightbulb moment here!!! Who would have the most to gain from this crime? RK who is being publicly slaughtered and is now forced to retain legal counsel which translates into big time debt. So who would have and has gained from this crime? Think about it, all of the publicity surrounding this case, all the cash donations that poured in. Remember the raffle fundraiser that had two fancy dancy cars for the prize? Wonder where that money went?? Sure didn't go to TES who ran out of funds and was being verbally attacked by Cindy constantly. At one point during the search TES had run out of funds and was going to be forced to stop the search. Who provided funds for this organization so they could continue to search for Caylee? It sure wasn't the family who was collecting all that free money. LE stepped forward and donated funds so that TES could continue.

Wonder what the family spent all those donation dollars on? It wasn't for a search, DC's financial agreement didn't include being paid by the hour, the water, paper, food, t-shirts and everything else was being donated so where did all that money go???

Note: Just my suspicious opinion

Novice Seeker

 

[believe09]

For me it always comes back to the fact that Casey's conspiracy explanation defies reality unless there is a drug connection-if she was a drug mule, I can see an organized ring taking her child and killing her as incentive to cooperate on some level. And that have never been in play-the fictitious nanny who never existed to begin with supposedly took Caylee while Casey was working at a job she never had.

I would believe that Kronk was much closer to the remains than has been reported. I would believe that he has some stories that either only investigators know or will not be told ever...because I think that he spent quite a bit of time thinking about where she might be based on what he had read in the papers-that is why he found her. In LE's defense they did not know if they were looking for a body or not.. I suspect that Kronk believed for a while that LE had found her exactly where he first said she was (after his persistence in August) and he assumed that they were holding it close to themselves. And then I think he was completely surprised to go back when the water table changed and find everything as he had left it....in December.

JMO.

I think they (the Anthony's) came so close to finding her and making her disappear....it makes me shudder. Thank God Kronk was obsessed.

 

[notthatsmart]

Well...Jose's PI did look into him...and what did we get...doctored video. I see desperation on the part of the defense and poor Kronk (in their minds) is the fall guy. They're looking for "just enough" to create reasonable doubt...nothing else IMO. I find their claim incredulous. That's why it's fallen with a resounding thud.

Can you elaborate on the Doctored video? I am unaware of this. I thought Mort was highly respected. This may give me reasonable doubt to take the defense seriously. thanks

 

[notthatsmart]

notthatsmart, are you saying that you think the judge is going to be ruling on whether or not another investigation into Kronk is to take place?

Yes, I may be confused as to exactly what the motion is. Perhaps it is to be allowed to bring this info up at trial, or is it to order an investigation into Rk?

 

[notthatsmart]

I can't find an exact link to TL's brief to remove the DP, but it was widely reported last year (around November I think) and blogged about extensively (I remember posting on several forums and the details were well known). I saw copies of some of the pictures he had included in the motion of KC (as a child) and read that he had cited examples of other mothers tried for murdering their children. In addition, he put forth the theory that if Caylee had died it was likely due to accidental overdose and a mental condition like PPD. I remember specifically it was widely discussed on multiple forums that PPD was unlikely to jive with KC's behavior or her psychological profile.

I can see that you are fascinated with further exploration of RK, but even if it weren't difficult to explain why may have somehow met the family the day he found the body (and if he met DC, that would be the only person at that point who might have had access to information as to the location of Caylee's remains) - it would still not answer why a month earlier human decomp had been reported by GA and several others in the Pontiac.

I did not mean to imply there was a link between JW and KW (the guy who found the animals), other than they also seem to have been interested in searching near the house (which would fit the profile of where bodies of people killed by family members end up) and that they are people who have, uh, problems in their past. This case is turning into a witch hunt for anyone and everyone who may have walked by the Anthony home, imo, regardless of how much of a stretch it is to connect them to this crime. I don't think that JW is all that credible for a variety of reasons; I read on another blog she used to frequent that she may have admitted to them she changed the dates on the photos in her computer. I don't know if that is true, but if it is, then LE certainly figured that out when they investigated her computer and has factored that in to anything she may have told them.

This crime was such a double-edged sword for so many. The public was encouraged to care about Caylee and to find her and bring her home to rest, but everyone that actually went out of their way to search ran the risk of being vilified and set up as an artificial SODDI for the defense. IMO, this will create a situation in which even people with completely spotless reputations will be reticent to help others. That's very sad, because some day a family who would be grateful for such help will find it hard to receive because people have become wary of extending their aid in case they are suddenly the fodder for fabricating a reasonable doubt scenario by the defense.

Bolded by me: I just wanted to clear this up. We were referring to two different incidents. I thought you were talking about the child who was interviewed by one of the stations on Dec 11th and the child had said that the water had receded recently and that several months ago the police were called about a smell in the woods and they came out and found a dead dog. I cant find that video anywhere, but I did see it at one point on the news.

You were talking about stuffed animals and Kw.

So, in retrospect, Jw had nothing to do with any dead animals.

 

[RR0004]

Can you elaborate on the Doctored video? I am unaware of this. I thought Mort was highly respected. This may give me reasonable doubt to take the defense seriously. thanks

Watch his interviews...they are stopped...then started...get the picture?

 

[RR0004]

Bolded by me: I just wanted to clear this up. We were referring to two different incidents. I thought you were talking about the child who was interviewed by one of the stations on Dec 11th and the child had said that the water had receded recently and that several months ago the police were called about a smell in the woods and they came out and found a dead dog. I cant find that video anywhere, but I did see it at one point on the news.

You were talking about stuffed animals and Kw.

So, in retrospect, Jw had nothing to do with any dead animals.

Just that JW had spent a lot of time in those woods as well...just my interpretation.

 

[notthatsmart]

JBean......do you really not think that anyone else would have been subjected to this same or similar investigation? We have seen e-mails from the A's to their PI and vice versa that finding a connection to MD would be huge, that RG was into human sacrifice, that JG had motive, that TL was involved in drugs and that Fusian was a front. What we failed to see from them OR the defense was any mention of the shady dealings of NLHF, KFN, and the party that donated reward $$. I totally see your point, but do you see mine?? There are parties with REAL and DOCUMENTED shady activities, yet none of those folks are being fingered. I find that odd.

I believe that from the very beginning of this fact finding mission, Le interrogated Kc and based on the questions they asked and didn't ask, they had no idea whatsoever what had happened. They were even accusing her of lies based on everyones misconception of the date June 9th.

Since then it has been the same thing. Everyone is looking at every angle and suspecting every person because no one and I mean no one really knows what happened here. Many believe that the evidence points to Kc, but there is no real rock solid physical evidence, and most circumstantial is after the crime and not leading up to the crime.

The A's clearly have no idea what happened here. That is why they are speculating and hope the Le investigates everyone including Kc. I think because Le has the right to look into suspicion (when they are not sure), everyone else has the right to look at anyone that looks suspicious in anyway.

Until there is some rock solid evidence, then we should all be looking at other options. That includes many others. Currently Rk is the one with circumstantial evidence making me suspicious. I tip my hat to Le for looking into all these people and hope they continue to do so, I also tip my hat to the defense for pointing out that they missed some stuff with Rk. There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism . I am sure Le welcomes it, and I really do believe Le would love to investigate Rk again. Investigating is what they do, and I am sure they enjoy it as much as I enjoy my job.

 

[JBean]

Want to make sure we are still discussing the motion. As always where this post lands on the thread does not necessarily reflect any of the immediately surrounding posts.