2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

[3doglady]

Do the images on pics 3 & 4 look like a precious Caylee foot to anyone else?

Glad you said that. I had thought that pics 9 &10 look like fingerprints but could be partial toe prints. That would however mean that Caylee's foot would have to be flat on the trunk carpet which is unlikely.

 

[strawberry]

Do the images on pics 3 & 4 look like a precious Caylee foot to anyone else?

Holy crap, yes they do!

 

[Harmony 2]

So...That would have required more than a tiny bit of fluid-Not only for it to be left on the bag like that, but to completely saturate that board. To clean that trunk thoroughly would have taken more than a handful of paper towels. And it had to have been cleaned, because the black light was not exactly exposing heavy pools and splotches everywhere.
Whichever Anthony cleaned that trunk then had to have seen the color, smelled the fluid in the wet vac, or on the towel they cleaned with. CA is a nurse. GA indicted the circle stain smelled horrfying.
How? Granparents? There was never a chance to get CA on the side of LE, she made a firm decision and acted on it, it was too late to go back once she cleaned her grandaughter's bodily fluids, washed the odor from KC's pants, etc.

ETA-I know some have pointed out that no cleaning solutions (soaps) were found by the labs-CA could easily just have used water and gotten the same effect-Maybe they did not have carpet cleaner in the house, or she did not have time to make a solution. While surfactants help to carry dirt to the surface, water would have worked seemingly well enough, would have brought a lot of the fluid back to the surface. And unless they had a powerful/commercial shop vac, some of the water she put down would not have come back up and would have settled down to the board below.

Re bolded by me:

If there was cleaning, aside from washing pants/knife and spraying Febreeze, it was done haphazardly and poorly:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4488842#post4488842"]Welcome our Chemist to Websleuths/Syringe in bottle and traces of chloroform #3 - Page 5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Curious Me]

Here is a sad little picture of a close up of the back piece they cut from the wheel cover. It appears someone hadn't been able to clean this area so well :sick:

Ah, this is a clearer photo. Thanks Eidetic. :blowkiss:

I see now what you mean that the bottom layer has been somewhat peeled off the carpet. It exposes the stains alright! This is Q44 then. What do these stains contain in testing? Did the Discovery release the results of this piece of carpet?

Goes to show you can clean and clean, but never get all the stains out.

 

[believe09]

I am just trying to catch up, but I want to say I can see why SA has indicated that the stain in the trunk has a certain size and shape to it. I think the close ups released look like certain features certainly or at least a certain pattern. I feel remarkably sad and ill FWIW.

 

[JSR]

Man, looking at the close up photos of some of the carpet swabs you can really see how someone scrummed the hell out of the trunk carpet. The jury's still out which Anthony it was, at least for me anyway. I'm of the opinion that it might be a mixture of Anthonys who attempted to clean the trunk. Although I also think if it was GA it would have been much cleaner.

 

[chefmom]

So...That would have required more than a tiny bit of fluid-Not only for it to be left on the bag like that, but to completely saturate that board. To clean that trunk thoroughly would have taken more than a handful of paper towels. And it had to have been cleaned, because the black light was not exactly exposing heavy pools and splotches everywhere.
Whichever Anthony cleaned that trunk then had to have seen the color, smelled the fluid in the wet vac, or on the towel they cleaned with. CA is a nurse. GA indicted the circle stain smelled horrfying.
How? Granparents? There was never a chance to get CA on the side of LE, she made a firm decision and acted on it, it was too late to go back once she cleaned her grandaughter's bodily fluids, washed the odor from KC's pants, etc.

ETA-I know some have pointed out that no cleaning solutions (soaps) were found by the labs-CA could easily just have used water and gotten the same effect-Maybe they did not have carpet cleaner in the house, or she did not have time to make a solution. While surfactants help to carry dirt to the surface, water would have worked seemingly well enough, would have brought a lot of the fluid back to the surface. And unless they had a powerful/commercial shop vac, some of the water she put down would not have come back up and would have settled down to the board below.

BBM

Maybe she used one of those steam cleaners that uses only heated water?

 

[chefmom]

Glad you said that. I had thought that pics 9 &10 look like fingerprints but could be partial toe prints. That would however mean that Caylee's foot would have to be flat on the trunk carpet which is unlikely.

But do we know for sure that that pic is of the bottom liner? Couldn't it be from the liner going up the side of the trunk and perhaps her foot was pressed against it? KWIM?

 

[Just Jayla]

Do the images on pics 3 & 4 look like a precious Caylee foot to anyone else?

Yes-During my ultrasound when I was pregnant with my daughter, she stuck her foot against my belly and gave us a perfect footprint on the screen. It looks just like that.

 

[The World According]

Do the images on pics 3 & 4 look like a precious Caylee foot to anyone else?

If the jury thinks so....she is toast.

 

[ynotdivein]

The laundry bag that contained the other bags had a cylindrical shape with a round bottom, yes?

Have we seen a diameter on that bag? :waitasec:

(ETA: Yes we have. Sorry for my lame cross-posting skills but here is the weblink to the WS thread about laundry bag:

The Canvas Laundry Bag (WS Thread begun 02.18.09)

If anyone feels good-samaritan-ish and would show me how to quote just the first post from thread here, I would be eternally grateful.

Meanwhile, looks like the laundry bag was 25 inches tall and 17 inches wide.

 

[ynotdivein]

Exactly and why would CA be so adamant about Caylee having all of her teeth? IIRC she insisted she knew because she brushed Caylee's teeth. I could be wrong but weren't all of Caylee's teeth except one found with her remains?

OT in:re stain on trunk liner, but yes, all her teeth but one were found. And LA said "This isn't like last time, KC." (That bit paraphrased.)

 

[ynotdivein]

Maybe this is when Caylee was actually placed in the trunk, thus the confusion over 2.6 days and the timeline given in the report. She could have had her stashed some place first, and the shovel was used to move her from that spot there was soil in the trunk as well which makes me believe Caylee had been in a make shift shallow grave somewhere.

So are you suggesting that... Caylee was killed on the 15th or 16th, was hidden somewhere temporary for +/- 2.6 days, was then placed in trunk at that stage of decomp (at which point decomp leakage occurred in trunk), and was then fairly immediately driven to final dump site and deposited (during which process further/more voluminous decomp spills took place inside trunk)?

'Cuz that's what I am starting to think.

Still wonder how/when exactly the two garbage bags and laundry container came into play. But this is starting to shape up in my mind at least.

 

[ynotdivein]

for reference

Stain in Trunk May Show Outline of Child in the fetal position. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Bumpity bump. Helpful thread. Thanks JBean!

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

re bolded and underscored by me:

Are you saying that Caylee's remains were in the spare tire well at the tow yard on July 16th (a whole month after going missing)? If so, I do not agree with that assessment.




Do we know for sure the photos of that vehicle are from the Anthony case? Or are they photos of someone else's Sunfire to show what the trunk looks like?

No, these photos are of the exact same make and model year of KC's that were taken by a felloe Wser way back when this was all first discussed. No these particular photos are not of KC's car.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

Caylee's body was not in the car at the tow yard. We know that because they would have seen the black bag as the spare wheel compartment is only 6 inches high and also the car would have been swarming with flies. KC parked her car at TL's apartment. If the body was in the car any length of time the flies would have drawn attention to her car. We know by the 27th when she dropped the car off at Amscot the car smelled because she texted AH about it. Your body is approximately 90% fluids and when decomposition starts everything breaks down. After two weeks in the car there would be fluids all over the place so imagine what it would look like after 31 days. JMO

Yes, I have imagined and not only have I imagined. GA and the Tow yard guy smelled it for themselves as did the investigating officers the odor was still so overpowering. Everyone states the wheel well is only 6 inches deep, has anyone measured the width of an almost 3 year old? I'm 44 years old and in some places I'm not 6 inches thick, so an almost 3 year old is not 6 inches thick, think about it.

 

[cecybeans]

So are you suggesting that... Caylee was killed on the 15th or 16th, was hidden somewhere temporary for +/- 2.6 days, was then placed in trunk at that stage of decomp (at which point decomp leakage occurred in trunk), and was then fairly immediately driven to final dump site and deposited (during which process further/more voluminous decomp spills took place inside trunk)?

'Cuz that's what I am starting to think.

Still wonder how/when exactly the two garbage bags and laundry container came into play. But this is starting to shape up in my mind at least.

Well, here is one scenario. Caylee was in the trunk on the night of the 16th and most of the 17th. Perhaps KC tried to dump her body at JBP that night (she is not with AL for a bit during the early evening and her phone goes dark but pings in the general UCF area IIRC, which is near the east end of JBP).

Since she was unable to successfully do that, she may have returned to the Anthony home on the 18th and double wrapped her body in the garbage bags to contain the leakage. That would still allow for the 2.6 day decomp stain. After that, the body may not have further leaked in the trunk. I don't think KC used the laundry bag until she was ready to remove the body from the trunk however long that was - if the garbage bags were laying on top of the stain, they would have been wet on the underside and she may have returned to get the laundry bag at that point so as not to get decomp on herself or her clothes (or she could have done it all at once). But taking and using a laundry bag from the home (which was a bit risky, as it had Caylee's balls in it I believe and would have had to have been emptied out and might have left a noticeable mess) suggests to me an unspecified delay between the garbage bags and the laundry bag. If KC had dumped the body immediately after using the garbage bags, she would not have needed a laundry bag with handles.

I always wondered that, if the laundry bag was missing from Caylee's room - where did KC put all the toy balls and why didn't her parents say anything to LE when asked if something was missing? (well, that may already be the obvious answer).

 

[AZlawyer]

Well, here is one scenario. Caylee was in the trunk on the night of the 16th and most of the 17th. Perhaps KC tried to dump her body at JBP that night (she is not with AL for a bit during the early evening and her phone goes dark but pings in the general UCF area IIRC, which is near the east end of JBP).

Since she was unable to successfully do that, she may have returned to the Anthony home on the 18th and double wrapped her body in the garbage bags to contain the leakage. That would still allow for the 2.6 day decomp stain. After that, the body may not have further leaked in the trunk. I don't think KC used the laundry bag until she was ready to remove the body from the trunk however long that was - if the garbage bags were laying on top of the stain, they would have been wet on the underside and she may have returned to get the laundry bag at that point so as not to get decomp on herself or her clothes (or she could have done it all at once). But taking and using a laundry bag from the home (which was a bit risky, as it had Caylee's balls in it I believe and would have had to have been emptied out and might have left a noticeable mess) suggests to me an unspecified delay between the garbage bags and the laundry bag. If KC had dumped the body immediately after using the garbage bags, she would not have needed a laundry bag with handles.

I always wondered that, if the laundry bag was missing from Caylee's room - where did KC put all the toy balls and why didn't her parents say anything to LE when asked if something was missing? (well, that may already be the obvious answer).

IIRC, Cindy stated in her deposition with the SA that the balls had been removed from the bag sometime earlier, and the bag was stored in the garage.

 

[LambChop]

*pics removed and bold by me*

I don't think the space was big enough. After getting the actual measurements from Wescott the space is only 6 inches deep as I originally hypothesized. I was off on the length and width but to me the depth of only 6 inches is the kicker. Also with the dimensions Wescott was able to provide the total amount of space is only 2.3 cu ft. Caylee was 37 inches tall (3ft1) given body proportions that would make Caylee roughly 15 inches wide at the shoulders. So she wouldn't fit on her side in that space and be completely covered by the carpeted lid. That and she would be to tall for her to be on her back. If her legs were tucked up she would still be coming out of the 6 inch deep compartment. To me Caylee just doesn't fit in that space in a way that the cover can be placed over her to cover her and look normal. That and the stain suggests something was on top of it and leaked through the carpet to the board.

I personally think she was placed in the trunk on top of the spare cover. Possibly bagged and other items were placed in the trunk to conceal her. Such as the trash from TL's and the gas cans and such.

Truth: I think this is why we all feel Caylee was not in the spare tire compartment.

 

[LambChop]

The laundry bag that contained the other bags had a cylindrical shape with a round bottom, yes?

Have we seen a diameter on that bag? :waitasec:

(ETA: Yes we have. Sorry for my lame cross-posting skills but here is the weblink to the WS thread about laundry bag:

The Canvas Laundry Bag (WS Thread begun 02.18.09)

If anyone feels good-samaritan-ish and would show me how to quote just the first post from thread here, I would be eternally grateful.

Meanwhile, looks like the laundry bag was 25 inches tall and 17 inches wide.

Bit off topic here but I was thinking if KC keeps claiming SODDI then how would they know where this laundry bag was kept? CA said it was used to store plastic balls in the shed. Not like someone killed Caylee and was wandering around the house looking for something to carry her away. If they were to grab the Winnie blanket from her bedroom the other rectangle bag with Caylee's stuffies was right there by her bed and would have been much easier to manage, I would think. Only KC would not use the rectangle bag because it would be obvious to CA that it was missing. JMO