2010.02.16 Document Release: Stain on Trunk Liner

[ynotdivein]

Ok, I admit my eyes are the worst ever....but is anyone else seeing what I think I see on pic #29 at the below link? It looks like vertebra, botton looks like legs bent, crossed at ankles and the top high lights at the sides her arms. What is curious is something is showing up brighter at the ankles and wrists, (if what I'm seeing is correct). What could cause that?

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/22578565/detail.html

Poor baby.

moo

I haven't read whole thread sorry if this is a repeat.

doogiesgirl, you had it pegged, way back then. Good looking out, sister.

ETA: What hits me so hard is looking at JWG and BJB's images and seeing that little rib cage/abdomen area so clearly represented. Doesn't matter whether you see the image of Caylee's form in JWG's or BJB's interpretations--there is NOTHING else that that central stain could represent other than the rib cage of a baby. A baby who should have been being tickled and held and cuddled and loved. Who should have grown up to have hamsters and rabbits and eventually a dog and who should have dated in high school and played sports and gone on to work or college and to touch other lives in ways we can't imagine. Who deserved so much more than duct tape and garbage bags left in a swamp.

Caylee, baby girl, we wanted you here with us. This is hard work, sorting out what happened to you. But keep guiding us.

 

[CarrieSis]

Wow, on that composite. You can even see what would be the diaper area (darker, between legs) and bellybutton.

Might be that p word thing where I'm seeing things that aren't there, though - I can't figure how all that would show from her laying on it (diaper) maybe because the diaper WAS touching but was absorbent so less fluid there or something?

 

[skygirl]

Here are two images that, to me, "go together".....


http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq110/skygirl31/28-1.jpg



The photo of the stain, and the laundy bag really share the same "look" IMO.

 

[chefmom]

Here are two images that, to me, "go together".....


http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq110/skygirl31/28-1.jpg



The photo of the stain, and the laundy bag really share the same "look" IMO.

:furious: Have to agree. They do.

 

[naturaleza]

Here are two images that, to me, "go together".....


http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq110/skygirl31/28-1.jpg



The photo of the stain, and the laundy bag really share the same "look" IMO.

This is really weird, I was just looking at picture exhibit 28 and I can clearly see the outline of little Caylee's body. Sorry if this has been discussed, but does anybody else can see her? Maybe it´s just an optical ilusion, but it did struck out. I'll try to attach the outline of what I see.

 

[wenwe4]

naturaleza, I see the outline of her little body as if she is laying down with her head at the top of the bag. You can make out where the bag was folded over (note the creases) and this makes sense to me, that the bag was laying on it's side (not standing up) just as you see in the image #28.

 

[naturaleza]

naturaleza, I see the outline of her little body as if she is laying down with her head at the top of the bag. You can make out where the bag was folded over (note the creases) and this makes sense to me, that the bag was laying on it's side (not standing up) just as you see in the image #28.

That makes more sense, I actually see her perpendicular to the bag. Either way it's so very sad.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Morning everone. :wave:

Just doin' a little housekeeping on this thread this morning. If you're looking for a recent post on this thread re:

• Pool chemicals & chloroform
• State's Witness List
• Ladder

You should be able to find them on their on-topic threads now
Easy to stray OT...in fact, I excel @ it.

FWIW1: If you don't know where somethin' goes, you can always post on the "LIST Questions and Answers..." thread. That's a great clearinghouse thread, and a good read too.

FWIW2: If you're like me and you have a foggy memory of a thread that you think already exists, you can do an Advance Forum Search using a keyword you think is in the title (e.g. "BondJamesBond is the OT King") and tada! you're good to go!
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/search.php?f=166

HTH.

Carry on!

 

[wenwe4]

I agree that the area you highlighted appears to be a back outline, and if you pinch the bag at the creases to show where the bag was collapsed down on top of her, I believe the area you highlighted is the bulge that resulted from the collapsing creases on each side. I didn't see the image that you outlined, but it also makes much sense. I am trying to visualize how Caylee was probably placed in the bags. I would think that her legs were placed inside the black plastic bags first and then the whole "bundle" was slipped into the laundry bag. I am thinking that her body had come out of rigor @ the time she was bagged so it wasn't too difficult to "place" the body inside.

 

[Harmony 2]

This seems a reasonable moment for us all to take a trip down memory lane to revisit this (now locked) thread:

Stain in Trunk May Show Outline of Child in the fetal position. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


...for which link I tip my hat most respectfully to JBean (see her post on first page of this thread). Early posts in the older thread discussing fact of no DNA/decomp evident in trunk liner carpet samples. Are these images depression-related only? How could we end up with such obvious stains on back of liner and wheel-well cover without decomp spill in trunk? Halp!

Food for thought

Again my :twocents: ... I am a Speech Pathologist not a scientist

We know butyric acid was found and used to determine the post mortem interval on the carpet...

I think the stain could be the butyric acid (VFA- volatile fatty acid) and I base that on the following information: (Note: I have posted the first article before but reposting in case it was missed. I think the information would apply to the trunk carpet as well as soil.)

Warning: article is very graphic and not for the squeamish

As bodies decompose, they leak five fatty acids into the ground beneath them. Each day after death, the various profiles of these acids will vary. Analysis of them can reveal the time of death, as well as pinpoint exactly how long any given body has been lying in a particular place. The soil can also reveal the presence of a corpse, even if the body itself has been removed or destroyed. The ''stain'' left by a body's volatile acids, which also suppresses plant life around it, can last for up to two years, leaving a kind of phantom fingerprint in the earth. Thus, soil, like maggots, becomes an ''information bomb,'' and the dead can be reconstructed (if not resurrected) long after they have disappeared physically.

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/12/03/m...ad-men-talking.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

http://www.google.com/patents?hl=en...e.com/&printsec=abstract#v=onepage&q=&f=false

 

[LCoastMom]

I had left this thread mid-page and when I reopened it I paged down to the work of our incredible photo- enhancing technologists - I applaud the work of each of you.

I had a completely visceral reaction to this and once I recovered my thought were in this order:

Oh our poor Angel - I'm so sorry...

Argggg KC Anthony you are a monster.

Oh her poor grandpare....

OMG They cleaned this stain - knowing that they were cleaning what was left of their gbaby there is no longer any doubt in my mind how KC turned into a monster. She lived with two her whole life.

Caylee I'm so glad you are in such a beautiful place where you know only love.

 

[capps]

Here are two images that, to me, "go together".....


http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq110/skygirl31/28-1.jpg



The photo of the stain, and the laundy bag really share the same "look" IMO.

Very well could be the outline of the bag skygirl,if so I would think that bag smells just awful even if it was under water for a while.

 

[AZlawyer]

Here are two images that, to me, "go together".....


http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq110/skygirl31/28-1.jpg



The photo of the stain, and the laundy bag really share the same "look" IMO.

The laundry bag is 24 inches tall according to the ME's report (p. 6):
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:01iKy6QrgcQJ:www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/medical_examiners_report.pdf+FBI+laundry+bag+whitney+design+stained&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESg5Nw7LP6LHqHJxZ-i5JnJ8zjmCWcGv-x4wPOX8PBUesQmwOlgkNtgVDqfb1yiU38R9JrIFgmgmgp_Tp4kZ8XrLa1CL-TNQhkuAmCTvnuD7nOY6uIfSn4XExJfvBhN4GdsIhLjw&sig=AHIEtbRF27GTHFEdvL3X7NOIJmpmourRYw

I think the impression on the laundry bag matches the size of the stain.

 

[Curious Me]

Those two images together tell a definite story. It looks like a perfect match.

Hearing about things is not the same as seeing things. It makes me really break down and cry to see that laundry bag.

The work done on this thread has been amazing. I think we're almost ready for trial even if the attorneys aren't.

 

[kellymay77]

-----------------------------------
kellymay,::WELCOME:lease do post the link,I'd like to see it.I had a hard time with the other ones. I did find tilting my laptop screen helped a bit.Good to have you here.:dance:

Thank you for the warm welcome Here is the link to the photo I was talking about http://www..com/2010/03/heartbreaking-casey-anthony/ Now after seeing JBJ's analysis, I'm not sure how Caylee was positioned. Either way there's no question in my mind now that we are seeing Caylee's precious little body

 

[AZlawyer]

Thank you for the warm welcome Here is the link to the photo I was talking about http://www..com/2010/03/heartbreaking-casey-anthony/ Now after seeing JBJ's analysis, I'm not sure how Caylee was positioned. Either way there's no question in my mind now that we are seeing Caylee's precious little body

That site shows the outline upside-down from JWG's and BJB's pics.

 

[Curious Me]

I think KC must have had some understanding of the decomp process at least as of the late evening of June 16 when she and Tony watched Untraceable, which includes a scene of someone opening a car trunk and finding a decomposing body. I haven't seen the movie, though--has anyone else seen it? Is it obvious from this scene in the movie that the decomp would cause smells/other problems?

Sorry, I need to go OT for just a minute.

I saw that movie, but blocked out or closed my eyes during many parts of it. It didn't seem like it covered decomp much, but did stress the many horrors of dying at the hands of a devious mind. However, for the sake of this case, it is worth renting.

We now know just how Caylee was laying in KC's trunk that night. It's too real to see those stains and that laundry bag, and to hear about a heart-shaped sticker. Try to imagine KC watching it the night of June 16, 2008.

Watching that movie really made me jumpy, anxious, and upset! The timer added to my sense of panic. I tried to imagine how I'd feel watching it while my dead/or dying little girl lay in the trunk. It would be completely impossible for the average person to sit through a movie like that on a night like that!

KC must not be a human being, IMHO.

 

[AZlawyer]

Sorry, I need to go OT for just a minute.

I saw that movie, but blocked out or closed my eyes during many parts of it. It didn't seem like it covered decomp much, but did stress the many horrors of dying at the hands of a devious mind. However, for the sake of this case, it is worth renting.

We now know just how Caylee was laying in KC's trunk that night. It's too real to see those stains and that laundry bag, and to hear about a heart-shaped sticker. Try to imagine KC watching it the night of June 16, 2008.

Watching that movie really made me jumpy, anxious, and upset! The timer added to my sense of panic. I tried to imagine how I'd feel watching it while my dead/or dying little girl lay in the trunk. It would be completely impossible for the average person to sit through a movie like that on a night like that!

KC must not be a human being, IMHO.

ITA.

I checked the script. The body in the trunk in that movie was in a plastic bag, so KC might not have been tipped off to the fact that Caylee's body would leave a stain. But she should have been tipped off to the fact that there would be a horrible smell after a couple of days, based on the description of how the character who finds the body reacts.

 

[wenwe4]

I can't remember seeing any of the pics of the bags @ the dump site being released, anyone else? I know they took pics of the bags before touching them and clearly they would show how the bag laid in the woods for all those months. The stain in the trunk along with the bag will probably be a very powerful statement to the jury.

 

[ynotdivein]

I'm bouncing back & forth between this thread, All About Chloroform (which sounds like a horrible macabre Jeopardy category), and the pool/drowning/ladder one, and thought of this:

We have VFAs in the trunk liner.

Source: decomp event.​

We have higher than expected quanitites of chloroform in the trunk.

Source: unknown.​

We have decomp hits by cadaver dogs in the back yard.

Source: cadaver or item that had been in touch with cadaver, either shovel or blanket or both?​

Hypothesis: The blanket was used to smother Caylee, with possibly a corner of it having been soaked in choloroform first (high chloroform content in samples); blanket was then used to cover/wrap her for some time in the trunk (VFAs causing trunk stains we have been analyzing); then used as a sling or hammock to transport her to backyard for attempted burial. Seeing that burial would be impossible (or at least hard work), KC maneuvers Caylee into the garbage bag & that into the laundry bag. She then soaks the blanket in the pool to clean it off, and stuffs it back in the top of the laundry bag, covering the garbage bag and looking to a casual observer like a bag with laundry in it. The blanket was found away from the remains and this would also explain how that happened, whereas if it had been wrapped around her it would have been more entangled in the remains.

Thoughts?