2010.04.09 Appearance of Suburban Drive

[6stringer]

I've always wondered if all of the neighbors came together and did a massive search of the entire neighborhood. I never heard that they did. And considering that no one even knew she was missing until 31 days after the fact, (and the Anthonys certainly wouldn't be looking for a "live Caylee" in the woods a month later) I'm not all that shocked that she wasn't found in that swampy jungle.

I can say with certainty that had I lived in that neighborhood? I would have checked that area out...look at the overhead sattelite view, and it is not very big. yes florida can become a swamp and a jungle (lived there 9 years), but that would have just made it that much more of a concern to me?

sorry, I am not at all harping or complaining about the investigation, or search at all. In fact I have been VERY impressed with the entire case from that aspect. And last night is not the first time I have heard that women dispose of their victims within a quarter mile of their home...so, yes, I would have checked that area often depending on water levels

 

[logicalgirl]

Maybe it just sank that way when the water drained away? Maybe the ground was uneven under it when the water drained away? I guess lots of reasons.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I can say with certainty that had I lived in that neighborhood? I would have checked that area out...look at the overhead sattelite view, and it is not very big. yes florida can become a swamp and a jungle (lived there 9 years), but that would have just made it that much more of a concern to me?

sorry, I am not at all harping or complaining about the investigation, or search at all. In fact I have been VERY impressed with the entire case from that aspect. And last night is not the first time I have heard that women dispose of their victims within a quarter mile of their home...so, yes, I would have checked that area often depending on water levels

. . . and please forgive me! I forgot to say a big

:Welcome-12-june:​

 

[6stringer]

I guess this is why I have an interest in this case...I became the sole single parent to my (then) 2 year old son. never for a moment did going out to party, nor my son being anything but the most important part of my life enter my mind. It was tough being a single dad in an area where I knew nobody, nor had reletives to help, but my sons safety, wellfare, and happyness was the most important thing to me. I can not imagine any parent not seeing life that way.

 

[seagull65]

Orlando encompasses 67.3 square miles of land and has 4.7 square miles of water area.* Caylee was just over 3 feet tall (before disarticulation). Those ratios are in greater disproportion than even the proverbial "needle in a haystack."

Picture yourself standing smack dab in the center of those 67 square miles and someone says to you, "Find this sweet, little 3 ft x 1 ft package for me."

I remain overwhelmingly relieved and amazed that she was ever found. (And let us not forget that she was "found" much earlier than she was retrieved. Had some LE been less lazy she would have been retrieved much earlier.)

ETA: * http://www.idcide.com/citydata/fl/orlando.htm

But she was just up her own street, literally right around the corner, just into the treeline (who would guess that they wouldn't have searched the treelines in her own neighborhood on the first day of the investigation, and the neighborhoods of the other two homes Casey had been taking her to a lot and had been staying at.) I mean what perp is going to bother to hack their way deep into forests, so it's probably not a matter of searching whole forests or the entire 70 square miles of Orlando really is it, at least that isn't where you'd start. Of course investigators would be trying to find the babysitter and investigating the people who had been around Caylee and whose homes she had been at, and the people Casey had been living with, you would have thought. Not just asking them if they had anything to do with the disappearance. At least you'd think the dogs would have been taken to these places and to these people's vehicles etc, I mean what are the cadaver dogs for, only to be taken to the A home and Casey's vehicle? But in the meantime, how could she not be found right there where she was, right around her own corner?

Even long before the investigation, if Caylee's body was at that site from June 18 or 20 onward, I'm surprised she wasn't found there by accident in the first week or whatever, long before she was reported as missing. After she was officially missing, "witnesses" even told LE to LOOK IN THAT AREA, and this was even printed in tabloids, but she still wasn't found by LE? or any of these other people who were poking around there like Keith W and so on, not to mention the multitudes of protestors and others swarming around the neighborhood? What were the odds of her not being found? It amazes me. MOO

 

[seagull65]

I've always wondered if all of the neighbors came together and did a massive search of the entire neighborhood. I never heard that they did. And considering that no one even knew she was missing until 31 days after the fact, (and the Anthonys certainly wouldn't be looking for a "live Caylee" in the woods a month later) I'm not all that shocked that she wasn't found in that swampy jungle.

but she wasn't in a swampy jungle. Nothing like that. She was just a number of feet from her own neighborhood street, not way deep into trees or anything like that, and just a few yards from people's fences. I think sometimes some of the overhead pictures that are out there of the area showing large expanses of forest and so on give a false impression. And it's true, even Dave's video where he's showing a deep area further down the street and saying it's ten feet deep or whatever, can really give a false impression regarding the remains site.

and not only was she so near the street and neighbors, her body was supposedly there from just days after her death (like 2 or 3 days). It may be true, maybe her body really was there then, if so, it's amazing to me she wasn't found much much earlier on

excuse me going on, Expecting Unicorns! LOL OK, I'm off to dinner. Have a great weekend

 

[Pondering Mind]

I don't know for sure by any stretch of the imagination, but I would think that the smell factor would be helped greatly if her body was partially or completely submerged in water AND outside in the open air vs the smell in the trunk of the car sitting in the hot Florida sun. Also school was out so I wouldn't think that there would be a lot of foot traffic on Suburban at that time.

More importantly IMHO, we can't forget either that NOBODY was searching for Caylee for over 31 days, neighbors had no clue that a child was missing. Without being graphic, just how much of Caylee was left after 31 days to find or smell?

 

[ZsaZsa]

but she wasn't in a swampy jungle. Nothing like that. She was just a number of feet from her own neighborhood street, not way deep into trees or anything like that, and just a few yards from people's fences. I think sometimes some of the overhead pictures that are out there of the area showing large expanses of forest and so on give a false impression. And it's true, even Dave's video where he's showing a deep area further down the street and saying it's ten feet deep or whatever, can really give a false impression regarding the remains site.

and not only was she so near the street and neighbors, her body was supposedly there from just days after her death (like 2 or 3 days). It may be true, maybe her body really was there then, if so, it's amazing to me she wasn't found much much earlier on

excuse me going on, Expecting Unicorns! LOL OK, I'm off to dinner. Have a great weekend

Any area of ground that is not cultivated or maintained in Florida becomes a jungle in no time, in that tropical climate. Kudzu alone obscures the view from a road side, in the right conditions it can grow a foot a week. It is not called The Vine that ate the South for nothing.. If you will listen to what Dave says at 7.25 into the video, as he is pointing out the areas where Caylee's skull and then bones were found , he tells us that NONE of it was visible from the road when she was located.

 

[Harmony 2]

I guess this is why I have an interest in this case...I became the sole single parent to my (then) 2 year old son. never for a moment did going out to party, nor my son being anything but the most important part of my life enter my mind. It was tough being a single dad in an area where I knew nobody, nor had reletives to help, but my sons safety, wellfare, and happyness was the most important thing to me. I can not imagine any parent not seeing life that way.

Hi there 6stringer and welcome.... glad you decided to chime in...

You sound like a great dad!! I have done alot of research in the area of maternal fillicide and you are correct about disposals occurring in or close to their homes.

http://www.slate.com/id/2063086/

Casey herself said she was close to home and that is among the extremely rare truths she uttered.

Looking forward to reading more of your posts...

 

[strawberry]

I guess this is why I have an interest in this case...I became the sole single parent to my (then) 2 year old son. never for a moment did going out to party, nor my son being anything but the most important part of my life enter my mind. It was tough being a single dad in an area where I knew nobody, nor had reletives to help, but my sons safety, wellfare, and happyness was the most important thing to me. I can not imagine any parent not seeing life that way.

Me too! My daughter was about the same age as Caylee when we divorced. She was in fact 2 years and 9 months old. She was my life!! I remember the first time he took her for the weekend...I sobbed and sobbed. Hey, wait a minute, single dad? Still single?? And what parts are you from?:angel:

 

[Just Jayla]

Could the sealed bags have prevented that g-d awful smell from escaping? Have they every estimated how fast decomp would occur in the plastic bags? Bones without flesh buried in muck and water wouldn't give off a smell I would think. I'm thinking by the time the animals got through the bags the majority of decomposition had occurred...but really have no way of knowing for sure.

When you are driving down 95 from Virginia into North Carolina, where the coastal plain kind of comes inland a bit, there is a definite odor of, well, swampy poo. I have not smelled this in Florida before, but I am sure the wetlands can yield the same smell....Perhaps no one smelled the decomposition in open air and distinguished it from that dank swampiness before their nasal cells filled up. IIRC, when a resident near Suburban did distinguish decomp, it was a dead dog in the area-The residents may not have given a passing odor much thought.
By the time KC was located by CA, I believe Caylee would have been near skeletonized, the smell probably gone, and no one put 2 & 2 together if they did smell anything.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I don't know for sure by any stretch of the imagination, but I would think that the smell factor would be helped greatly if her body was partially or completely submerged in water AND outside in the open air vs the smell in the trunk of the car sitting in the hot Florida sun. Also school was out so I wouldn't think that there would be a lot of foot traffic on Suburban at that time.

More importantly IMHO, we can't forget either that NOBODY was searching for Caylee for over 31 days, neighbors had no clue that a child was missing. Without being graphic, just how much of Caylee was left after 31 days to find or smell?

Thank you, Pondering. I was mincing my words too much, but this was a big point I wanted to make.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Thank you, Pondering. I was mincing my words too much, but this was a big point I wanted to make.

So sad isn't it?

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

but she wasn't in a swampy jungle. Nothing like that. She was just a number of feet from her own neighborhood street, not way deep into trees or anything like that, and just a few yards from people's fences. I think sometimes some of the overhead pictures that are out there of the area showing large expanses of forest and so on give a false impression. And it's true, even Dave's video where he's showing a deep area further down the street and saying it's ten feet deep or whatever, can really give a false impression regarding the remains site.

and not only was she so near the street and neighbors, her body was supposedly there from just days after her death (like 2 or 3 days). It may be true, maybe her body really was there then, if so, it's amazing to me she wasn't found much much earlier on

excuse me going on, Expecting Unicorns! LOL OK, I'm off to dinner. Have a great weekend

I certainly can understand your frustration that she wasn't retrieved earlier.

It is my uneducated opinion that had the dogs been given access to that area on Suburban the day Cindy called 911 that there is a small possibility her body might have been found then. But I think LE was distracted from the home area when Casey insisted that Caylee was with the nanny. It was futher complicated when the dogs hit so hard on Casey's trunk; it must have made them think that Caylee was further away from her home.

And even though she was there for all that time you must keep in mind that she was in multiple bags. "Caylee" was not visible. The bags may have been seen but there were many, many other bags of trash there, too. Do you remember seeing how many bags DC so carelessly slashed open? A blanket, three bags, water, Florida undergrowth and kudzu vines had her very, very well hidden from the human eye.

I don't think any of the photos or videos give false impressions of the area. If anything, they do not properly convey the degree of difficulty that the density of the vegetation presented not only to access of the area but also the line of sight.

I guess we must have to disagree that it was a swampy jungle. And maybe that's because my words are so limited that I can't describe well enough what it looks like just down the street from me. In our neighborhood we refer to it as "the natural area." We can hear when the baby allegators hatch and call for their mother. No one, no one can walk in there or see more than three feet from the beginning of the plant growth. If anyone tossed a bag in there 19 feet from our road it would never, ever be noticed!

 

[LambChop]

I certainly can understand your frustration that she wasn't retrieved earlier.

It is my uneducated opinion that had the dogs been given access to that area on Suburban the day Cindy called 911 that there is a small possibility her body might have been found then. But I think LE was distracted from the home area when Casey insisted that Caylee was with the nanny. It was futher complicated when the dogs hit so hard on Casey's trunk; it must have made them think that Caylee was further away from her home.

And even though she was there for all that time you must keep in mind that she was in multiple bags. "Caylee" was not visible. The bags may have been seen but there were many, many other bags of trash there, too. Do you remember seeing how many bags DC so carelessly slashed open? A blanket, three bags, water, Florida undergrowth and kudzu vines had her very, very well hidden from the human eye.

I don't think any of the photos or videos give false impressions of the area. If anything, they do not properly convey the degree of difficulty that the density of the vegetation presented not only to access of the area but also the line of sight.

I guess we must have to disagree that it was a swampy jungle. And maybe that's because my words are so limited that I can't describe well enough what it looks like just down the street from me. In our neighborhood we refer to it as "the natural area." We can hear when the baby allegators hatch and call for their mother. No one, no one can walk in there or see more than three feet from the beginning of the plant growth. If anyone tossed a bag in there 19 feet from our road it would never, ever be noticed!

And obviously with all the trash that you can see from pictures in that area no one really cares. I'm surprised that people get away with dumping trash there. It's disgraceful. I believe, too, someone reported there was a dead dog in the area around that 31 day timeframe and people associated the smell as coming from the dog. That was in the earlier doc dumps, I think. JMO

 

[RR0004]

but an unusually high percentage of female killers dispose of their victims within a quarter of a mile from their home!

Casey wasn't deemed a "killer" till October, 2008. (FWIW)

PS- we kinda got it wrong here, too...convinced by the "pings" (which IIRC were handed over to LE) that she was somewhere else.

 

[RR0004]

And obviously with all the trash that you can see from pictures in that area no one really cares. I'm surprised that people get away with dumping trash there. It's disgraceful. I believe, too, someone reported there was a dead dog in the area around that 31 day timeframe and people associated the smell as coming from the dog. That was in the earlier doc dumps, I think. JMO

Not sure what kind of animal it was...but there was a smell supposedly.

 

[Just Jayla]

Don't wanna start a new thread on this one, because I did not take pictures when I was on Suburban Drive yesterday....the last pics that MarinadeD showed are stil very accurate, so please refer back to them on this thread...
When I reached the end of Hopespring, there was an OCSO sherriff there in his cruiser, so I did not want to stop and make a big scene; I made the right onto Suburban and immediately my eyes were drawn to the fence on the right, which was creepy. I slowed a little and was able to notice that:

-The ground coverings were still missing from the area where the search took place-You can see all the way down to the dirt still, tree roots sticking up-I did not see any standing water, but I did not get out to look.
-There is definately a 2-3 foot drop into the area-From the curb, go about 3-4 feet to where the uncut grass and vines start, and about 1 foot into the high grass and vines is the drop off.
-If you go down past where the search took place, you notice that the ground covering and vines make it impossible to see into the woods let alone see down to the ground-The clearing that took place during the search made a marked difference in the appearance of the area.
-There is a line of trees that is closer to the road than the crooked tree where Caylee was found, meaning that KC either has one hell of an arm and aim, or she stepped into the woods in order to get the remains and bag past that first line of trees and vines. IOW, it is not a clear shot to the crooked tree, there are obstacles in the way.

I drove down to the school and did a u-turn. Here is the part I really took note of-As I drove back up Suburban from the school I noticed that I could see straight into the back door of 4901 Hopespring (the corner house with the fence line, I think 4901 is the house number). So, from inside of their house, they can see over that back fence. Now, I was in a Jeep, which sits up higher than KC's car, but my point is that the fence does not obscure cars on Suburban from someone who may be looking out the backdoor of that house. If someone was home and had a view out that back door when KC stopped there, they would have clearly seen her there. This made me wonder if she went down there at night with her lights off, or she knew no one was home at 4901 Hopespring, or it just happens that they did not see her there dumping something right behind their house. But they easily could have.
The fence at the cul-de-sac on Suburban was wide open, not locked or anything-Caylee was not found down there so it does not really matter, but I think there has been some discussion here on that before. Anyone can get beyond that fence.

All in all, it was very surreal to see the area. My immediate thoughts were-"My God, this is all real, Caylee's death was real, the Anthony's are people in a real home, their daughter really did this"-See, I live in the Old Dominion, so my perspective has always been a TV/internet perspective-It hits home to see the area where a sweet baby was dumped like trash.

Finally, timer55, 55 seconds, close to home, etc., does not even begin to describe how unbelievably close Caylee's body was to that house. Damn close, shockingly close. As I drove out and made my way back towards interstate 95, I saw many areas that KC could have brought Caylee to where she would never have been found. But she put her sooo close. She must have felt some sense of control that way.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Thanks for the description, Just Jayla. Every time I even think of little Caylee being disposed like trash in an area like that, I just get so angry all over again. I will just never forget this beautiful, innocent child.

JMO

 

[CBTampa]

Don't wanna start a new thread on this one, because I did not take pictures when I was on Suburban Drive yesterday....the last pics that MarinadeD showed are stil very accurate, so please refer back to them on this thread...
When I reached the end of Hopespring, there was an OCSO sherriff there in his cruiser, so I did not want to stop and make a big scene; I made the right onto Suburban and immediately my eyes were drawn to the fence on the right, which was creepy. I slowed a little and was able to notice that:

-The ground coverings were still missing from the area where the search took place-You can see all the way down to the dirt still, tree roots sticking up-I did not see any standing water, but I did not get out to look.
-There is definately a 2-3 foot drop into the area-From the curb, go about 3-4 feet to where the uncut grass and vines start, and about 1 foot into the high grass and vines is the drop off.
-If you go down past where the search took place, you notice that the ground covering and vines make it impossible to see into the woods let alone see down to the ground-The clearing that took place during the search made a marked difference in the appearance of the area.
-There is a line of trees that is closer to the road than the crooked tree where Caylee was found, meaning that KC either has one hell of an arm and aim, or she stepped into the woods in order to get the remains and bag past that first line of trees and vines. IOW, it is not a clear shot to the crooked tree, there are obstacles in the way.

I drove down to the school and did a u-turn. Here is the part I really took note of-As I drove back up Suburban from the school I noticed that I could see straight into the back door of 4901 Hopespring (the corner house with the fence line, I think 4901 is the house number). So, from inside of their house, they can see over that back fence. Now, I was in a Jeep, which sits up higher than KC's car, but my point is that the fence does not obscure cars on Suburban from someone who may be looking out the backdoor of that house. If someone was home and had a view out that back door when KC stopped there, they would have clearly seen her there. This made me wonder if she went down there at night with her lights off, or she knew no one was home at 4901 Hopespring, or it just happens that they did not see her there dumping something right behind their house. But they easily could have.
The fence at the cul-de-sac on Suburban was wide open, not locked or anything-Caylee was not found down there so it does not really matter, but I think there has been some discussion here on that before. Anyone can get beyond that fence.

All in all, it was very surreal to see the area. My immediate thoughts were-"My God, this is all real, Caylee's death was real, the Anthony's are people in a real home, their daughter really did this"-See, I live in the Old Dominion, so my perspective has always been a TV/internet perspective-It hits home to see the area where a sweet baby was dumped like trash.

Finally, timer55, 55 seconds, close to home, etc., does not even begin to describe how unbelievably close Caylee's body was to that house. Damn close, shockingly close. As I drove out and made my way back towards interstate 95, I saw many areas that KC could have brought Caylee to where she would never have been found. But she put her sooo close. She must have felt some sense of control that way.

It does bring the reality into it doesn't it. I actually have thought of driving over to go by the site too. After your description I don't think I will. It would just be to sad. We know that they little angel deserved better than this.