2010.06.18 Questionnaire -Students, parents asked about Kyron again

[oxymoran]

Raeann wrote

His arms were clearly visible in the other pictures taken that morning. Also, if anyone is curious, there are many dozens of pictures of Kyron on the sticky above. Several posters, including myself have gone through them all looking for scratches, bruises, etc. No one has linked to anything that they found at all suspicious.

Sorry Raeann, But I wasn't aware there were any OTHER pictures of him from THAT morning...could you please give me a link...(I looked in the photo section of Kyron's forum)

 

[nomoresorrow]

Does anyone know why they didn't put a pic of the actual truck on the questionnaire?

IMO: Because obviously this truck isn't the "actual truck" that was seen; If it was there would have been either some blood evidence and/or evidence that a body was transported post-mortem in it. If LE had found any evidence of a crime in/on "that" truck, Terri and Kaine would not be driving it around as it would have remained in police custody.

~ MOO ~

 

[debs]

The only purpose these fliers can serve in a LE investigation is to place someone in a position of being called forward later by LE to answer questions officially. Whatever information they gather from these fliers without ever speaking to the actual person is hogwash. If they see something which they feel they can use, they MUST get an in-person official statement from them. Period.

These surveys are no good to defense OR prosecution, and the information gathered off them is nothing more than an expedient way of hopefully getting SOMEONE to come forward in a manner that is less intimidating and time consuming should LE set up 20 tables in the gym and start asking people questions one by one.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

Yes, exculpatory information does have to be disclosed. We were talking about differences in a single individual's story, though... not two individuals testimony conflicting.

All I know is that if I were the defense attorney in this case, I would move heaven and earth to get copies of every single questionnaire that was filled out.

I would look for prior statements by a witness that were inconsistent with that witness's trial testimony, possible exculpatory evidence, and anything that would help me with encouraging reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors. Those questionnaires might be useful in preparing the case for trial.

Of course, I could be way off base here. I could be wrong. This is my opinion, only.

 

[raeann]

Raeann wrote


Sorry Raeann, But I wasn't aware there were any OTHER pictures of him from THAT morning...could you please give me a link...(I looked in the photo section of Kyron's forum)

There is another picture with the project, and one together with a friend. They should be in the media/photo links sticky. I can't look right now..... I have house guests this evening and must go make sure everyone has enough pillows and blankies and put out plenty of fresh towels and such for them....sorry

 

[eyes4crime]

Although I believe the point was to put the heat on the SM, I am just gobsmacked over this questionaire. I've never heard of such a thing & I've been in the field for decades. To me, this would be a prosecutor's worst nightmare--to have individuals that were already interviewed orally to be asked the same questions and have them write their responses. The chances of changed responses--even responses that are the same but worded differently--would create a nightmare at trial. And the clear bias shown against the SM is pretty obvious.

SoCalSleuth - You have been a DA for decades and I always appreciate your responses - would you ever use the information gathered from these questionnaires and interviews (twice) in your prosecution against s-mom? TIA

I would love to see a response from a crim defense attorney on the issues related to the questionnaire. It upsets me that LE can place s-mom, the car she was driving, her missing child, all together, pictures/words. People talk about 'turning the screw' but what about mob mentality, those who want to take the law in their own hands? Can't explain, but this feels like a violation of our Constitutional Rights - isn't there a better way to solicit evidence/info about s-mom. moo mho and all that stuff.

ETA: Especially since s-mom has NOT been named a POI or a SUSPECT..can they actually name her a suspect based on any of the responses to this quesionnaire?

 

[nomoresorrow]

Ugh...

I never said that. The witness testimony would be produced to the defense, but it would not include these questionnaires. It would be witness statements, and possibly depositions pre-trial.

I have to respectfully disagree - This is a high-profile case. If charges are ultimately brought against Terri, a criminal defense attorney will already know all about this questionnaire - and already have their own copy.

~ MO ~

 

[eyes4crime]

I have to respectfully disagree - This is a high-profile case. If charges are ultimately brought against Terri, a criminal defense attorney will already know all about this questionnaire - and already have their own copy.

~ MO ~

Seems like it - so would they have to match the responses of the mailed-e-mailed, faxed, written questionnaires to those they got in personal interviews? And what if people change their mind based on seeing a picture of Terri, her car, Kyron? What a mess!

 

[nomoresorrow]

The only purpose these fliers can serve in a LE investigation is to place someone in a position of being called forward later by LE to answer questions officially. Whatever information they gather from these fliers without ever speaking to the actual person is hogwash. If they see something which they feel they can use, they MUST get an in-person official statement from them. Period.

These surveys are no good to defense OR prosecution, and the information gathered off them is nothing more than an expedient way of hopefully getting SOMEONE to come forward in a manner that is less intimidating and time consuming should LE set up 20 tables in the gym and start asking people questions one by one.

(Hi Debs!) But here's the problem, Terri is the only person whose face is depicted - It would be like LE showing someone a 5-photo line up but all 5-photos are Terri Horman! It's leading a witness, in this case it's leading an entire community IMO. This isn't a big school FGS's - add to that the fact that Terri is/has worked as a volunteer teacher there and yet LE has to use her "lone" picture in order to stimulate memories?! I'm not comfortable with it - not one bit. Listen I want the bad guy/girl just like everyone else - WHOEVER HURT KYRON - but I want it done right. JMHO ~

 

[Emma Peel]

I feel like this flyer is going to be a field day for the defense, if Terri is, indeed, a suspect. To me, if it's not an attempt to clear Terri, then it's just folly.

1) It looks like a wanted poster. It's very prejudicial IMO.

2) Defense can demand all these flyer responses through discovery and benefit from any information that supports Terri, or that shows sloppy technique, etc.

3) It takes only one of these forms (or two - combined together) that are filled out in a way that clears Terri and they've given Terri and alibi through their flyer.

4) They are doing the defense's work for them by finding ways to clear Terri.

Now LE knows all of these problems with conducting surveys this way. So why put this silly flyer out there?

(is anyone following this? lol)

The truck is NOT part of the investigation. Yet, it's in the picture on the flyer and they want information on who saw the truck when.


So, after thinking on this a bit, I have to think the flyer's purpose is actually to clear Terri. Which their lawyer (Terri's) likely explained & approved.

A tiny part of me wonders if LE knows that Terry didn't drive the truck to school at all, and whoever fills this form out and says she did is BUSTED. (which is why they don't really care about the truck).

But, maybe that's too obvious. Maybe they know exactly when Terri was there and they are looking for liars - people willing to put Terri where she was at a time when she wasn't.

Okay, I have a headache again. :crazy:

 

[nomoresorrow]

Regardless if we disagree, I know we all want the same thing; for Kyron to come home but, with it looking less and less likely, we all just want justice to be done... and for that I think you're all awesome. God Bless You Kyron!

Night everyone ~

 

[eyes4crime]

I feel like this flyer is going to be a field day for the defense, if Terri is, indeed, a suspect. To me, if it's not an attempt to clear Terri, then it's just folly.

1) It looks like a wanted poster. It's very prejudicial IMO.

2) Defense can demand all these flyer responses through discovery and benefit from any information that supports Terri, or that shows sloppy technique, etc.

3) It takes only one of these forms (or two - combined together) that are filled out in a way that clears Terri and they've given Terri and alibi through their flyer.

4) They are doing the defense's work for them by finding ways to clear Terri.

Now LE knows all of these problems with conducting surveys this way. So why put this silly flyer out there?

(is anyone following this? lol)

The truck is NOT part of the investigation. Yet, it's in the picture on the flyer and they want information on who saw the truck when.


So, after thinking on this a bit, I have to think the flyer's purpose is actually to clear Terri. Which their lawyer (Terri's) likely explained & approved.

A tiny part of me wonders if LE knows that Terry didn't drive the truck to school at all, and whoever fills this form out and says she did is BUSTED. (which is why they don't really care about the truck).

But, maybe that's too obvious. Maybe they know exactly when Terri was there and they are looking for liars - people willing to put Terri where she was at a time when she wasn't.

Okay, I have a headache again. :crazy:

Hi there Ms. Emma - you make some very good points. I've thought about the possibility of 'trick' questions and using this to clear Terri. Problem is, the power of suggestion is so great, I'm concerned this may be a stamp of 'guilt' forever, even if innocent. The alignment of Terri's car, her sad pics, Kyron, and the words will find its way to those who don't speak english - it's on the web, and will reach everybody. IMO the majority of people see her as guilty, - can't figure out how this will bring out the few who have yet to cast their verdict. I want justice for Kyron, but this tactic upsets me. moo mho

 

[debs]

(Hi Debs!) But here's the problem, Terri is the only person whose face is depicted - It would be like LE showing someone a 5-photo line up but all 5-photos are Terri Horman! It's leading a witness, in this case it's leading an entire community IMO. This isn't a big school FGS's - add to that the fact that Terri is/has worked as a volunteer teacher there and yet LE has to use her "lone" picture in order to stimulate memories?! I'm not comfortable with it - not one bit. Listen I want the bad guy/girl just like everyone else - WHOEVER HURT KYRON - but I want it done right. JMHO ~

(HI NMS!!!) You're right; Terri is rather ... prominent on this. It boggles everyone's mind to wonder why that would be, and I can't quite come up with MCSO or Portland's Police force to be in the caliber of ineptitude this would present with the District Attorney, who by the way, we've learned has been hanging out with the Hormans. Any defense attorney, as has been stated repeatedly, would immediately tie up the DA with paperwork figuring this out. It leads ME to conclude that while Terry is up front and center, it isn't about what we think it is.

The parents, students and staff can answer questions on a piece of paper and send it to LE to their hearts content, but until LE themselves sits their fanny in a chair and asks them direct questions, that paper isn't worth the tree sacrificed to make it.

Anything further, and I'd have to go over to the theories thread, and even there I can't say it. So....I just believe this paper chase isn't chasing paper at all.

 

[Emma Peel]

If I were to want to get a perp who I believed was vulnerable to guilt and pressure to tell the truth if someone else would be in worse trouble for whatever it is they really did, I'd be taking the family vehicle and putting out a flier asking questions about one person, all the while knowing it will eat at the real perp until they couldn't take it anymore. (thank you for the award for longest run-on sentence EVER!)

hmmmm...

This raises the issue of covering for others:

There's only two people she'd cover for in the family.

The question then remains who/what's she covering for otherwise. Then we begin to sound like other things we've seen before. Where there is a crime wthin the crime and she'd incriminate herself if she told what she really knew about the story of Kyron's disappearance.

I hope someone has explained the concept of accessory to her...

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Maybe LE has confirmed that "someone else" was driving that truck that day? Or part of that day?

 

[butwhatif?]

Can someone help me out here? I'm really curious to see the questionnaire, but when I click on the pdf links it comes up with 'this file is damaged and can not be repaired' :banghead:

How many questions are there?
Are they available for viewing at any other site?
Are there many questions not relating to Terri and the car?

TIA

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

They would take official statements and submit those.

Prosecutors only have to hand over what they believe they will be using in the case. The point of discovery is so there are not big surprises for either side at the trial, so much that one side wouldn't have time to come up with a defense and so it would be unfair.

If the info isn't going to be used to make the case in a courtroom, it doesn't have to be disclosed.

In the Casey Anthony case, I believe the defense fairly recently got the judge to give an order that the LE involved turn over all the tips they had received.

 

[mamaeb]

Can someone help me out here? I'm really curious to see the questionnaire, but when I click on the pdf links it comes up with 'this file is damaged and can not be repaired' :banghead:

How many questions are there?
Are they available for viewing at any other site?
Are there many questions not relating to Terri and the car?

TIA

if you scroll down on this article you can see pictures
http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crim...-are-issuing-about-stepmother-and-her-vehicle

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

I feel like this flyer is going to be a field day for the defense, if Terri is, indeed, a suspect. To me, if it's not an attempt to clear Terri, then it's just folly.

1) It looks like a wanted poster. It's very prejudicial IMO.

2) Defense can demand all these flyer responses through discovery and benefit from any information that supports Terri, or that shows sloppy technique, etc.

3) It takes only one of these forms (or two - combined together) that are filled out in a way that clears Terri and they've given Terri and alibi through their flyer.

4) They are doing the defense's work for them by finding ways to clear Terri.

Now LE knows all of these problems with conducting surveys this way. So why put this silly flyer out there?

(is anyone following this? lol)

The truck is NOT part of the investigation. Yet, it's in the picture on the flyer and they want information on who saw the truck when.


So, after thinking on this a bit, I have to think the flyer's purpose is actually to clear Terri. Which their lawyer (Terri's) likely explained & approved.

A tiny part of me wonders if LE knows that Terry didn't drive the truck to school at all, and whoever fills this form out and says she did is BUSTED. (which is why they don't really care about the truck).

But, maybe that's too obvious. Maybe they know exactly when Terri was there and they are looking for liars - people willing to put Terri where she was at a time when she wasn't.

Okay, I have a headache again. :crazy:

BBM This is what I think, as I posted earlier. And the more I read and the more I ponder this, the more I think so.

The past 36 hours on this case is giving me a headache as well. Something quite odd, me thinks. I have to go to a family reunion and will be offline till tomorrow (oops, already Saturday, so make that later tonight. At the rate things are going, I will catch up by Monday, LOL.

 

[carole]

Can someone help me out here? I'm really curious to see the questionnaire, but when I click on the pdf links it comes up with 'this file is damaged and can not be repaired' :banghead:

How many questions are there?
Are they available for viewing at any other site?
Are there many questions not relating to Terri and the car?

TIA

http://www.flashalertnewswire.net/i.../36184/061410.SchoolQuestionnaireadobe.hm.pdf