2010.09.07 - Ron talking to LE per AH on JVM

[bessie]

IMHO..Last I heard Tommy has stated LE doesn't want to hear about Ronald's involvement so IMHO it is quite possible Tommy has told all he knows about what happened...
IF he indeed went with Jo to the river and to his knowledge Haleigh was put in the water there by Jo then he has told what he knows...However I'm not certain such an incident even occcurred..
Did Tommy ever mention he saw Jo put Haleigh in a black bag?
I may be wrong and someone please correct me IF I am but hasn't it been revealed Tommy stated he saw a lifeless Haleigh lying on the seat? That to me indicates she may not have been placed in a bag when he saw her...
So was she paced in a bag and put in that dumpster by Tommy and Jo and then later removed by them to the dock or was it a member of Rons family who removed her to another place and could the dock be just another red herring? JMHO

He did say that Em, during phone conversations with his parents and Flo during the time the dock search was taking place. In the first tape, he claimed to have seen her in a van while Joe had a knife to his neck, and he was certain that Joe was going to be arrested the next day. He was also desperate to get out of jail in that tape and the following, I dunno, nine or ten, because he's heard Lindsy had a boyfriend and she was leaving him. As we all know, Joe has never been arrested. That says no evidence has been found to support Tommy's allegations.

We also know last September Tommy claimed he had gone to the MH that night and Misty didn't answer the door. Earlier this year, he admitted that was a lie he told to get out of jail. The news came a couple of days after he failed a LDT, which seems to indicate the LDT revealed the truth, and he was not at the MH that night.

The point is that Tommy will say anything if he's desperate with little regard for how the implications will affect him in the future. So, in my very humble opinion, any statements made by Tommy while under duress have no value. Because of his earlier lies, even the truth is worthless now.

 

[suspicious1]

He did say that Em, during phone conversations with his parents and Flo during the time the dock search was taking place. In the first tape, he claimed to have seen her in a van while Joe had a knife to his neck, and he was certain that Joe was going to be arrested the next day. He was also desperate to get out of jail in that tape and the following, I dunno, nine or ten, because he's heard Lindsy had a boyfriend and she was leaving him. As we all know, Joe has never been arrested. That says no evidence has been found to support Tommy's allegations.

We also know last September Tommy claimed he had gone to the MH that night and Misty didn't answer the door. Earlier this year, he admitted that was a lie he told to get out of jail. The news came a couple of days after he failed a LDT, which seems to indicate the LDT revealed the truth, and he was not at the MH that night.

The point is that Tommy will say anything if he's desperate with little regard for how the implications will affect him in the future. So, in my very humble opinion, any statements made by Tommy while under duress have no value. Because of his earlier lies, even the truth is worthless now.

Nice post, Bessie. but IIRC, in that conversation with GMF, Tommy never says JO's name. Tommy never mentioned any names....GMF mentioned Jo's name. I am one who believed that Tommy was not talking about Jo in that conversation, IMHO, I think he was talking about Ron.

FWIW, I agree with everything else you said.

JMO of course

 

[Emeralgem]

He did say that Em, during phone conversations with his parents and Flo during the time the dock search was taking place. In the first tape, he claimed to have seen her in a van while Joe had a knife to his neck, and he was certain that Joe was going to be arrested the next day. He was also desperate to get out of jail in that tape and the following, I dunno, nine or ten, because he's heard Lindsy had a boyfriend and she was leaving him. As we all know, Joe has never been arrested. That says no evidence has been found to support Tommy's allegations.

We also know last September Tommy claimed he had gone to the MH that night and Misty didn't answer the door. Earlier this year, he admitted that was a lie he told to get out of jail. The news came a couple of days after he failed a LDT, which seems to indicate the LDT revealed the truth, and he was not at the MH that night.
The point is that Tommy will say anything if he's desperate with little regard for how the implications will affect him in the future. So, in my very humble opinion, any statements made by Tommy while under duress have no value. Because of his earlier lies, even the truth is worthless now.

BBM.. I recall Tommy stating he told that story in order to get out of jail, but IF the LDT revealed he was not at the MH that night WHY did LE state they were still going with that story?
Also, It is my understanding an LDT revealed Misty had never been threatened by Jo O so WHY did LE allow all that information to be revealed about Jo threatening Misty? JMHO..

 

[Nonni Brenda]

I agree that Ron was the main target, because I think LE was sick of his non cooperation, his meddling mother, & his going about his life like Haleigh never existed. I even think LE might have suspected him as the killer. But...Tommy has managed to twist everything around. Who I thought was a probably just a minute player, (maybe an accessory to an accessory, in exchange for drugs), has managed to put himself right in the thick of all the action. IDK, but I think LE might be as surprised by this, as I am, & his tales have thrown most of my theories right out of the water. If he's not guilty, then why not tell a story that can be proved? & I think Misty is covering for Tommy, & Ron's been covering for his own crimes. Also, when LE made this drug bust, I don't think they knew for sure which one had done what, but they knew they had all of the participants, so I really think they've been trying to put the puzzle pieces together, just like us. & I know we're missing some big pieces, but I personally, can't ignore what I consider, to be Tommy's self incriminating stories, lies, & actions. I can't think of 1 good reason, for him to not snitch on Ron...except that if he did, Ron would snitch right back, & he'd get in more trouble.

Yeah, looks like Tommy has shot himself in the foot with one of those "alleged" guns, doesn't it?? What :waitasec: he thinking??

 

[justus4all]

IMHO..Last I heard Tommy has stated LE doesn't want to hear about Ronald's involvement so IMHO it is quite possible Tommy has told all he knows about what happened...
IF he indeed went with Jo to the river and to his knowledge Haleigh was put in the water there by Jo then he has told what he knows...However I'm not certain such an incident even occcurred..
Did Tommy ever mention he saw Jo put Haleigh in a black bag?
I may be wrong and someone please correct me IF I am but hasn't it been revealed Tommy stated he saw a lifeless Haleigh lying on the seat? That to me indicates she may not have been placed in a bag when he saw her...
So was she paced in a bag and put in that dumpster by Tommy and Jo and then later removed by them to the dock or was it a member of Rons family who removed her to another place and could the dock be just another red herring? JMHO

great questions...

for what's its worth...my :twocents:

IMO...Someone...hastily..took Haleigh from the crime scene..(Magnolia residence?)..and placed her somewhere..temporary..(the dumpster?)..until better plans were decided upon...then someone went to the dumpster and got her...and placed her somewhere elsewhere...

I do not believe she was ..EVER..throw in the river...due to the fact..her body/bones could be washed up later and identified...and to the fact..Ron's family would not permit their granddaughter's grave to be in the river..

As to who ...who did what??/...Not sure..what Tommy did..or Joe..but I believe TN..was involved with giving the orders while Ron was at work...Not Misty giving the orders....I also believe TN picked out Haleigh's final resting place..

As for the dock..IMO..IT COULD have been she was taken there...for a boat..to take her somewhere else...I doubt they would bury her..nearby..because searchers/dogs..may locate her burial site..

Also, it is my opinion..that if someone is transporting a dead body..MOST LIKELY..the body would be covered up..in something..(sorry to say this and I apologize in advance)..for leakage, hair strands, mouth and nasal drainage.....also ...the body covered up in case they were stopped for some reason...

It is hard for me to imagine that Haleigh was just placed ...with no covering..on a car seat for transport...even for this bunch....

again I apologize..for descriptions..

all in my own opinion...

 

[dodie20]

Yeah, looks like Tommy has shot himself in the foot with one of those "alleged" guns, doesn't it?? What :waitasec: he thinking??

well, I'll tell you what I think he was thinking. He was locked up & claustophobic & sat there & got worried that LE was gonna figure him out, so he jumped 1st & made up or embellished the Joe story. I'm still not sure if there's any truth there. After relistening to his tapes, I'm freaked out by Tommy & his whole family. You had Lindsey questioning if he was the ONE, Gmaw Flo, alternating between sobbing & cackling, & acting like she had just picked the winning lotto number, (Joe), & Lisa threatening to kill herself if Tommy didn't call. & this was just 1 call. 9 minutes of pure twilight zone family he**. I listened to that one the other day, & still haven't recovered.

 

[bessie]

Nice post, Bessie. but IIRC, in that conversation with GMF, Tommy never says JO's name. Tommy never mentioned any names....GMF mentioned Jo's name. I am one who believed that Tommy was not talking about Jo in that conversation, IMHO, I think he was talking about Ron.

FWIW, I agree with everything else you said.

JMO of course

I know some people believed Tommy was talking about Ron, but I could never see that. He didn't mention Joe by name, but there were numerous references to Joe in the conversations. At one point he says, "MF's crazy". To which Hank replies, "MF should've been locked up long ago" and later, "He's gotten away with everything he's ever done. Been in asylums..." Tommy was certain an arrest was imminent. "****'s about to go down." "There going to arrest him tonight." When that didn't happen, Tommy wanted to know what was going on. Hank said, "Takes time to figure out you're telling the truth before they arrest Joe." And all of the conversations took place around the time of the Shell Harbor search when all the focus was on Joe. I don't see a connection to Ron at that point, though he certainly might've implicated him later.

 

[dodie20]

I know some people believed Tommy was talking about Ron, but I could never see that. He didn't mention Joe by name, but there were numerous references to Joe in the conversations. At one point he says, "MF's crazy". To which Hank replies, "MF should've been locked up long ago" and later, "He's gotten away with everything he's ever done. Been in asylums..." Tommy was certain an arrest was imminent. "****'s about to go down." "There going to arrest him tonight." When that didn't happen, Tommy wanted to know what was going on. Hank said, "Takes time to figure out you're telling the truth before they arrest Joe." And all of the conversations took place around the time of the Shell Harbor search when all the focus was on Joe. I don't see a connection to Ron at that point, though he certainly might've implicated him later.

I just listened to that tape, & I thought he was for sure talking about Joe. & he sounded like he was lying IMO, for what that's worth. It's also MOO, that he is a bigger liar than Misty. You're post reminded me of something. Way back when Joe was 1st implicated, Misty acted IMO, like she was relieved to have somebody to blame. & that's how all of this feels. Tommy didn't want to lose Lindsey & Hank didn't want his kid(s) charged with murder, & they had a verifiable crazy, who was in town, to blame. But on the flip side...this family is so weird, that I'm not sure this isn't exactly how they'd act if Joe really was the killer. They have the strangest reactions, to the most horrible things. When Flo told Tommy that his mom was threatenintg suicide, he just blandly said 'ok'. & Flo really did act like she had picked the winning lotto number with Joe. & Lindsey's innappropriate giggling gives me the creeps. She told her son that his daddy lived upstairs, & then giggled... like he had a cute little uptown apartment, & then Tommy laughed. What dark, twisted family dynamics.

 

[bessie]

BBM.. I recall Tommy stating he told that story in order to get out of jail, but IF the LDT revealed he was not at the MH that night WHY did LE state they were still going with that story?
Just a wild guess based on what we've heard so far: LE's stance is that they will accept Tommy lied about the reason he went to the MH, but they will not accept that he wasn't at Green Ln at all that night if it turns out the crime occurred there and there is evidence that would implicate him.

Also, It is my understanding an LDT revealed Misty had never been threatened by Jo O so WHY did LE allow all that information to be revealed about Jo threatening Misty? JMHO..
Can't answer that one, Em. I don't know if it's a matter of LE allowing information to get out so much as they can't stop all of it from being leaked. Besides, it's not their job to protect Joe from false allegations.

My answers are in red.

 

[dodie20]

My answers are in red.

This is my theory on why LE let the Joe stuff out. The drug bust was an obvious set-up, so we know that LE likes to operate this way. It was claimed that a before unnoticed detail in one of Misty's LDT's was discovered & led to the case being solved. BS. I think LE went with that 'set-up' to get Tommy to give details. told him the case was solved, Joe was the perp, but they needed locations, times, manner of death, disposal site, etc...& I think Tommy saw an out, & fell into the trap. Now, I know Steve Brown took the credit, but I haven't ruled out that LE was involved. Tommy gave just enough info to let LE know that yes, he was there, but it's MOO, that he kept the big stuff to himself, for insurance purposes. I remember Misty saying that 'people' were putting the Joe did it scenario into her head, & I have no reason to believe that thiswasn't done to Tommy. But, that doesn't mean that Joe wasn't involved, because he probably was, to some point. Because why hasn't he taken an LDT & had his lawyer shout his innocence, from the rooftops? This is just a theory.

 

[blazeofglory]

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS1000/1001/28/ng.01.html

Aired January 28, 2010 - 20:00:00 NANCY GRACE

http://archives.cnn/transcripts100/1001/28/ng.01.html

CUMMINGS: That still remains that it don`t matter, 40, 50 years from now, if I find out whoever done it before they do, you know, whatever might be done, whether they *took Haleigh because they lost a child *or whatever the case might be, you know. Yes, if I find out who or however, there`s two people, three people, whatever did it, whatever took my daughter wherever, then when I find out, if I find out before the police, it`s going to be done for them, done dealing. I`ll have satisfaction knowing that i got the person who stole my daughter........imo hes still trying to put the blame on cs...he also ask this reporter to make sure he gets a paper....also patb gets to give her op on rc and the 911 call..

 

[Whisperer]

Sounds to me like ron is saying he doesn't think this will ever be solved and that he knows several people are involved.

At times, though, he single out CS. I remember him doing that in the ER with misty and when he was first arrested. Why does he even go there? He throw so darn much carp out there, that it makes it difficult to figure out if he is insane or just deflectiing for the heck of it.

 

[Emeralgem]

My answers are in red.

Bessie, you stated..Just a wild guess based on what we've heard so far: LE's stance is that they will accept Tommy lied about the reason he went to the MH, but they will not accept that he wasn't at Green Ln at all that night if it turns out the crime occurred there and there is evidence that would implicate him.






LE stated eighteen and a half months ago there was no evidence in the MH on Green Lane that a crime occurred there..So how can LE claim they are still going with his story IF they find out a crime was committed at the MH on Green Lane? I am somewhat confused..JMHO

 

[Dee10]

I think we will find out there is a missing blanket. Misty talked too much about blankets.

 

[bessie]

Bessie, you stated..Just a wild guess based on what we've heard so far: LE's stance is that they will accept Tommy lied about the reason he went to the MH, but they will not accept that he wasn't at Green Ln at all that night if it turns out the crime occurred there and there is evidence that would implicate him.


LE stated eighteen and a half months ago there was no evidence in the MH on Green Lane that a crime occurred there..So how can LE claim they are still going with his story IF they find out a crime was committed at the MH on Green Lane? I am somewhat confused..JMHO

The evidence at the MH was not conclusive, but LE has not stated that they've ruled out the MH as the crime scene. This is from a PCSO media release on the first anniversary of Haleigh's disappearance:

FDLE processed the crime scene. Many items of potential evidentiary value were collected and sent to FDLE’s crime lab for analysis (i.e. for fingerprints and DNA). All of evidence has been examined and/or processed, but none of it has identified any suspect or additional leads as to who the suspect(s) may be.
http://www.pcso.us/2010-2-9-a

The evidence did not identify a suspect. That's all the statement says. It does not say that LE has no evidence of a crime, so therefore a crime could not have occurred (at the MH).

For that matter, LE said the dumpster search didn't turn up evidence related to Haleigh, but I know you still believe she was there.

What I should've pointed out in my first answer was that we don't know for certain that LE is holding Tommy to his story because LE has made no statement regarding that issue. Once again, we've only heard it from AH.

 

[Emeralgem]

The evidence at the MH was not conclusive, but LE has not stated that they've ruled out the MH as the crime scene. This is from a PCSO media release on the first anniversary of Haleigh's disappearance:

FDLE processed the crime scene. Many items of potential evidentiary value were collected and sent to FDLE’s crime lab for analysis (i.e. for fingerprints and DNA). All of evidence has been examined and/or processed, but none of it has identified any suspect or additional leads as to who the suspect(s) may be.
http://www.pcso.us/2010-2-9-a

The evidence did not identify a suspect. That's all the statement says. It does not say that LE has no evidence of a crime, so therefore a crime could not have occurred (at the MH).

For that matter, LE said the dumpster search didn't turn up evidence related to Haleigh, but I know you still believe she was there.

What I should've pointed out in my first answer was that we don't know for certain that LE is holding Tommy to his story because LE has made no statement regarding that issue. Once again, we've only heard it from AH.

Thanks bessie.. Truth be known and as sad as it is.....I don't believe or trust too much of anything PCSO has stated to be fact in this case.. Don't trust how they have investigated this case and sincerely doubt they have put forth an honest attempt to solve it........IMHO.. Everyone ever assigned to this case needs to be investigated...JMHO

 

[suspicious1]

The evidence at the MH was not conclusive, but LE has not stated that they've ruled out the MH as the crime scene. This is from a PCSO media release on the first anniversary of Haleigh's disappearance:

FDLE processed the crime scene. Many items of potential evidentiary value were collected and sent to FDLE’s crime lab for analysis (i.e. for fingerprints and DNA). All of evidence has been examined and/or processed, but none of it has identified any suspect or additional leads as to who the suspect(s) may be.
http://www.pcso.us/2010-2-9-a

The evidence did not identify a suspect. That's all the statement says. It does not say that LE has no evidence of a crime, so therefore a crime could not have occurred (at the MH).

For that matter, LE said the dumpster search didn't turn up evidence related to Haleigh, but I know you still believe she was there.

What I should've pointed out in my first answer was that we don't know for certain that LE is holding Tommy to his story because LE has made no statement regarding that issue. Once again, we've only heard it from AH.

Sooo....didn't the search of the StJohns dock come after this statement was made? From that particular search the investigation turned to Homocide....sooo....and not only that, it uncovered "several persons of interest".....as the evidence from the mh did not identify any suspect, because LE was led to believe that the "kidnapping" occurred at the mh and no where else. It seemed clear to me, at least, that the crime occurred somewhere near that Magnolia address...soooo..would it be safe to assume that there was no crime at the mh only the staging of one? In a statement LE made after the dock search, they felt that this area was the "crime scene". (sorry don't have link, but I think we've all seen it)....sooo...do you think there was more than one crime scene?? I am confused....do you still think the mh was the actual "crime scene"? IMHO, the mh was only staged to appear as if the crime took place there. and nothing more...

FWIW, I don't know if Haleigh was at that dumpster or not but I firmly believe that something belonging to her, was at that dumpster... In the back of my mind, I was always wondering if LE did find something at that dumpster and just chose not to reveal what they found. IDK but I think that's possible. As we've seen, LE is keeping everything close to the vest so why would they confirm that something belonging to Haleigh was at the dumpster? I am one who believes that LE has more on this case, than we think they do.

JMO of course

 

[Emeralgem]

Sooo....didn't the search of the StJohns dock come after this statement was made? From that particular search the investigation turned to Homocide....sooo....and not only that, it uncovered "several persons of interest".....as the evidence from the mh did not identify any suspect, because LE was led to believe that the "kidnapping" occurred at the mh and no where else. It seemed clear to me, at least, that the crime occurred somewhere near that Magnolia address...soooo..would it be safe to assume that there was no crime at the mh only the staging of one? In a statement LE made after the dock search, they felt that this area was the "crime scene". (sorry don't have link, but I think we've all seen it)....sooo...do you think there was more than one crime scene?? I am confused....do you still think the mh was the actual "crime scene"? IMHO, the mh was only staged to appear as if the crime took place there. and nothing more...

FWIW, I don't know if Haleigh was at that dumpster or not but I firmly believe that something belonging to her, was at that dumpster... In the back of my mind, I was always wondering if LE did find something at that dumpster and just chose not to reveal what they found. IDK but I think that's possible. As we've seen, LE is keeping everything close to the vest so why would they confirm that something belonging to Haleigh was at the dumpster? I am one who believes that LE has more on this case, than we think they do.

JMO of course

IMHO.. The MH on Green Lane was staged to make it look like an abduction occurred when in all reality there never was any abduction..
The MH on Green Lane served as a red herring to deflct from a tragic incident that occured at another location which claimed the life of an innocent child..I suspect Shell Harbor dock served as a red herring too although I doubt Jo and Tommy realized that to be the case IF they really took Haleigh there... I just can't get over how stupid they all were not to know they were were being set up by Ronald Cummings and his family.........
Anyone remember just who exactly it was that wanted that dumpster searched?
I recall it was searched because a family member requested LE search it... JMHO

 

[Nonni Brenda]

I just listened to that tape, & I thought he was for sure talking about Joe. & he sounded like he was lying IMO, for what that's worth. It's also MOO, that he is a bigger liar than Misty. You're post reminded me of something. Way back when Joe was 1st implicated, Misty acted IMO, like she was relieved to have somebody to blame. & that's how all of this feels. Tommy didn't want to lose Lindsey & Hank didn't want his kid(s) charged with murder, & they had a verifiable crazy, who was in town, to blame. But on the flip side...this family is so weird, that I'm not sure this isn't exactly how they'd act if Joe really was the killer. They have the strangest reactions, to the most horrible things. When Flo told Tommy that his mom was threatenintg suicide, he just blandly said 'ok'. & Flo really did act like she had picked the winning lotto number with Joe. & Lindsey's innappropriate giggling gives me the creeps. She told her son that his daddy lived upstairs, & then giggled... like he had a cute little uptown apartment, & then Tommy laughed. What dark, twisted family dynamics.

I may be wrong, but it sounded to me like he was about to say more, and GMF cut him off and asked if it was Joe and, whether he meant Joe or Ron, he just let her answer "ride" and decided mid sentence to stop talking. Not sure why he would do that, unless he was still trying to decide which lie would work best for him.

 

[Nonni Brenda]

I think we will find out there is a missing blanket. Misty talked too much about blankets.

I agree with you Dee, and I also believe that something belonging to Haleigh, if not Haleigh, was found in that dump. 3 trained dogs don't hit on something by mistake at the same place. If Haleigh's blanket was found here, I am wondering what the senario would be on how and who put it there?