2010.11.03 Third party involved?

[agathawannabe]

I don't want to get off topic, but if AB isn't involved, I am at a loss to explain his choices, behavior, and demeanor. There are so many things about the way he acts and has acted that just don't make sense to me!

Still (to keep to our focus), I guess it could be that he has some other issues that contribute to the way he seems, and that the participation of accomplices would have made it completely possible and believable for EB to have done something without AB's knowledge.

JMO

I agree AB's behavior's got some quirks in it. But after mulling things over in light of the theory in the opening post.. I think some of them may be explainable.

Take his "morphing" timeline as to Zahra's disappearance, for example.

What if AB's flipflopping in his early interviews about the last day he saw Zahra was due to *extreme* confusion - rather than deceipt?

Speculation:

AB knows he saw Zahra (up and out of bed) on Wednesday. She was sick Thursday, but when he came home from work he peeked into her room and saw her in her bed (or so he thought). Friday night he came home from Oktoberfest with a few beers in him and forgot to check on Zahra, but EB "checked on her (after hearing her cough)" at 2:30 am Saturday (or so he thought).

As it becomes obvious to investigators that Zahra is not kidnapped, rather presumed murdered - AB starts to seriously question his reality.

At that point, he realizes that maybe EB didn't check on her at 2:30am Saturday (and he hadn't seen Zahra with his own eyes then).

And maybe he'd just *thought* he saw Zahra when he peeked into her room Thursday night. (It wouldn't surprise me if EB had built a "dummy" of pillows in Zahra's bed.)

 

[agathawannabe]

Defense attorney's loves these threads.......lol. I just can't see it. He has changed his story about when he last saw her, the house was being painted, mattresses thrown away, major clean up effort and the whole time we are expected to believe he thought nothing of not seeing Zahra? Nope, I can't buy that. Do we know he went to the fair or whatever without EB? Or is that just speculation? Because I don't think we can just come up with whatever we want to to get him out of the house, or her for that matter. The fact is they ARE looking at AB. They are doing that for a reason. We may not know what all evidence they have, but they do - and they are still looking at him.

Defense attorney's loves these threads

They might. But IMO, IF all these little interweaving theories can be proved then maybe AB has a defense - at least with regard to some aspects of the case. I think, even if he might be found innocent in the homicide/coverup - there may be some tangential sorts of charges that could apply to him.

He has changed his story about when he last saw her

Theory in previous post.

the house was being painted

Maybe the house was painted (remodeled) around the time EB was furniture shopping? We don't know. Might have been just touch-up painting during the coverup, if at all.

mattresses thrown away

MOO - EB to AB: "Honey, Zahra (puked / peed / started her period) and ruined her mattress. I borrowed the pickup truck from so-and-so today, went out and got her a new one."

Do we know he went to the fair or whatever without EB?

No, we have EB saying to police that the whole family went to Oktoberfest. And we have reports that EB and AB were seen there without Zahra.

 

[Carolina Girl]

IMO,there is NO way AB is not involved in at least the coverup. Too much clean up going on in the house, and not seeing Zahra?

 

[believe09]

In a word, NO. IMO.

He cannot narrow down when he last saw his daughter-HIS child. The one he was responsible for and had custody of.

that speaks to knowledge of the crime to me.

 

[westsidefox64]

Im really not trying to be a pain here but is there a link to the Octoberfest statements? I remember reading in the warrant that EB stated they were there. I also kind of remember it being discussed other place,Just for the life of me dont remember who said they actually saw Zahra there. That could be very telling to me KWIM ..TIA

 

[wenwe4]

I remember reading somewhere else about the Octoberfest with AB & EB being spotted there - but I don't remember anyone saying anything about Zahra being with them. Even LE said they could not account for Zahra from an independent source since the furniture store. I don't think that has changed since LE made a public plea for people to come forward with info - but there could be info we are not privy to from LE.

 

[passionflower]

I have thought long and hard over AB and others being involved.
IMO, I do think that EB & AB had others help them.
EB had some power/blackmail or something (con artist) in convincing
people to do what she wanted them to do.
She even got money from a man in another country.
So yes I do think EB had allot of help.
I cannot see her painting a room and putting herself out.
She's never worked, lazy IMO.
EB would do the 'plan', the way to cover up but had men do
what she wanted...........like puppets.
I cannot see her oing manuel work such as digging a hole;
but I can see her pointing to the spot to dig the hole.
IMO, EB did the murder, AB just neglected and was the father from H#LL.
AB never sought after medical help, allowed the abuse.........etc.
Then come in the 'friends'.........all to help cover up.
The ransom note from EB and AB knew about it.
AB and his sorry 911 call with different times he saw Zahra.
His I was away working............nope do not buy it.
AB to calm, his actions at vigil memorial..........others did the work,
he picked up things in the yard????? JMOO

 

[dar107]

Defense attorney's loves these threads

They might. But IMO, IF all these little interweaving theories can be proved then maybe AB has a defense - at least with regard to some aspects of the case. I think, even if he might be found innocent in the homicide/coverup - there may be some tangential sorts of charges that could apply to him.

He has changed his story about when he last saw her

Theory in previous post.

the house was being painted

Maybe the house was painted (remodeled) around the time EB was furniture shopping? We don't know. Might have been just touch-up painting during the coverup, if at all.

mattresses thrown away

MOO - EB to AB: "Honey, Zahra (puked / peed / started her period) and ruined her mattress. I borrowed the pickup truck from so-and-so today, went out and got her a new one."

Do we know he went to the fair or whatever without EB?

No, we have EB saying to police that the whole family went to Oktoberfest. And we have reports that EB and AB were seen there without Zahra.

BBM There was 6 cans of paint seized, as listed in search warrant. Sounds like more then a touch-up paint job to me.

 

[agathawannabe]

BBM There was 6 cans of paint seized, as listed in search warrant. Sounds like more then a touch-up paint job to me.

Please re-read my post. I wasn't suggesting that touch-up was all the painting that was done in that house - ever.

I suggested that perhaps the house was painted (remodeled) in the same timeframe EB went furniture shopping (Sept 25). Speculation: a new living room set might have been a final touch in a newly remodeled house

I referred to touch-up as being done ONLY in the context of the 2-day period during which I think the cover-up was taking place. I don't know that any touch-up painting occurred. MOO

 

[tehcloser]

I'm thinking that covering up blood splatter and tissues would take more than a touch up. And i'm really not trying to be snarky. That house was a crime scene, and it was cleaned up SO WELL that LE didn't notice it at first. There was blood splatter and tissue STILL on the walls, some of it was apparently just painted over. We are not talking about cutting up a chicken here, we are talking about dismembering a body. I don't think a simple little knife in a sheath would do it, it took power tools and that had to have left on hell of a mess. It took TIME to clean up.

 

[agathawannabe]

I'm thinking that covering up blood splatter and tissues would take more than a touch up. And i'm really not trying to be snarky. That house was a crime scene, and it was cleaned up SO WELL that LE didn't notice it at first. There was blood splatter and tissue STILL on the walls, some of it was apparently just painted over. We are not talking about cutting up a chicken here, we are talking about dismembering a body. I don't think a simple little knife in a sheath would do it, it took power tools and that had to have left on hell of a mess. It took TIME to clean up.

Duly noted.

BBM: And/or MORE "manpower" than we've been estimating.

 

[NancyA]

Interesting theory but I don't buy it. First, keeping Zahra's dead body in the house without AB knowing for any length of time even just a day or two is fraught with problems for EB. EB could not know he might not insist on going in at some point to see his 'broody' or 'fluey' daughter - or coming home early and finding her out getting rid of one mattress and acquiring another, keeping ZAhra out of the public eye is one thing but keeping her out of AB's wouldn't be that easy in such a small house.

Then there's the timeline, this scenario would only give said accomplices a very couple of hours to dismember the corpse and clean up, no, and they have to touch up paintwork too? Also if the deal EB has with the DA involves telling the truth and they find out AB wasn't involved (highly unlikely IMO) that's a HUGE lie and she's screwed and she knows it. No way it makes sense to me for her NOT to have named her accomplices if there were any by now. She's desperate to get away with as small a penalty as possible so she'd have rolled over on ANYONE with even the most tenuous connection to the crime and even more so on those with the reddest hands so to speak.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I haven't seen any evidence what so ever that anyone other than EB/and or AB were involved in Zahra's murder. If I do see any evidence to the contrary, I'd be more than happy to consider it. Until then, it's tough enough for me to try to figure out what happened going on just the facts of the case.

JMO

 

[agathawannabe]

So if there are accomplices - the story in the search warrants did not come from EB but from another source. This would mean that EB is protecting the accomplices but throwing AB under the bus.

Just thought I'd add a note to this.

IMO

The longer EB sits in jail while AB's out free.. and as she starts to realize her ploy to throw AB under the bus isn't working (assuming that's the case).. the more likely she will become desperate and start ratting out any other accomplices.

IMO, if these (alleged) accomplices have any sense at all.. they'll go to LE and try to negotiate deals while they still have a remote possibility of doing so.

 

[westsidefox64]

I tend to agree with this. I think EB had probably ranted about the DSS reports - she probably worked to convince AB that people were just sticking their noses in their (Bakers) business for "no reason" but that they'd better keep Zahra out of view at the new house (because if the neighbors there should create trouble Zahra might be taken away from their household).

MOO - Too many nosy people filing DSS reports, says EB to frighten Adam. So Adam doesn't breathe a word about Zahra's existence to the new neighbors. They don't allow her out and about to be seen.

Couldnt it also be that the subject of Zahra just didnt come up? I know I dont mention my kids in every conversation I have. If AB didnt know EB was making Zahra stay in her room all the time it may not have entered his mind that the neighbor had never seen her. JMO

 

[westsidefox64]

Just thought I'd add a note to this.

IMO

The longer EB sits in jail while AB's out free.. and as she starts to realize her ploy to throw AB under the bus isn't working (assuming that's the case).. the more likely she will become desperate and start ratting out any other accomplices.IMO, if these (alleged) accomplices have any sense at all.. they'll go to LE and try to negotiate deals while they still have a remote possibility of doing so.

I can see this happening and for her not naming other accomlices (yet IMO). Shes not a upstanding person. Everything we have seen about her shows shes not always living inside the law. Maybe her accomlices have things on her that she doesnt want LE to know because it would mean more jail time. I think she has way more secrets than just what happened to Zahra. I think she has people in her life that helped her in these secret things. JMO

 

[agathawannabe]

Or it could simply be that Zahra was being kept in her room all that time. After all, the decision to homeschool was made before the furniture store sighting--meaning that Zahra was being kept out of the public while she was still alive. Remember that AB said she stays in her room most of the time and "only comes out when she needs something", and I believe it was Brittany Starbuck who said in an interview that Zahra was afraid to come out of her room, afraid of EB. So if AB really wasn't involved in the murder/dismemberment, and was telling the truth about Zahra staying in her room, it could be that she was being kept in there, such that neighbors and others wouldn't have seen her.

Just my own opinion and speculation.

BBM I might be losing my mind.. but have we seen in print somewhere that teacher(s) had given Zahra their phone number(s) because of concern for her? (Seems like I saw that somewhere.)

If so, and if EB found this out, I think it's entirely possible she might have pulled Zahra out of school for this reason.

Sad, but abusers will sometimes go to incredible lengths to both conceal the abuse and 'defend' their ability/opportunity to abuse.

MOO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

After all this time I am still not certain if Adam was involved in anything.

He just strikes me as not being very smart and possibly naive. Imo, EB was the controller and the master manipulator of the family. I think that is one of the reasons EB picked him. He was younger than she and she also targeted him because he had a young child.

It isn't uncommon for men to not notice things. They simply aren't as observant as most females are. A woman can repaint a room or redecorate and the husband can come in from a long day's work and not even notice. And if the walls have been painted or furniture removed or replaced about all some men will do when it is pointed out to them by their wives.......is mumble a 'it looks good' and they move on thinking no more about it.

I do think Adam was out of the house a lot working. He may be from the old school where he thinks child rearing is done by the woman and the man is to make a living to support them.

But whomever did this whether EB alone or with someone else I hope they all pay the harshest punishment allowed for the role they may have played in this devastating tragedy.

IMO

 

[Mrs G Norris]

One thing about EB I think we can all bank on: She will rat out everyone involved here, they can bet their brass wazoos on it. Can't wait

 

[oceanblueeyes]

One thing about EB I think we can all bank on: She will rat out everyone involved here, they can bet their brass wazoos on it. Can't wait

I am sure she will rat anyone out whether they are guilty or not if she thinks it will get her a deal. However; I am not sure how much credibility LE thinks EB has ....who is a known liar.

imo