2011.05.10 - Sidebar Thread (Jury Selection Day Two)

[rhornsby]

She did. But you could hear the nerves in her voice, much less in her body language.

If you go back to the first time Mr. Baez appeared before Judge Perry (or any lawyer for that matter) you will see that he was just as nervous as well. So I say good for her. Plus, given that this was most likely her first real world presentation, on national TV no less, she came across as quite poised.

FYI: I just did a quick google search on Ms. Fryer. It appears that she was a member of the Barry Law Review. I think she may be a good addition to the defense.

 

[panthera]

The Florida Bar website lists a Lisabeth J Fryer who was admitted on April 15, 2011 and coincidentally has the same address as a certain J. Cheney Mason.

Thank you. Less than a month since being admitted to the Bar and what an initiation she is getting with this case!

 

[A_News_Junkie]

I might be thinking of a different motion.

What bright spark came up with the idea of having someone less than one month out of the bar argue a motion in a capital case?!

I think she was there the day the newbie got sworn in and KC was having such a good time.

 

[uklaw]

Personally I thought she did very well and presented the argument more concisely and persuasively than Mr. Baez or Ms. Sims did in the past.

And I was very impressed how she not only maintained her composure when Judge Perry posed questions to her, but that she answered intelligently and was able to answer the specific questions the judge asked.

Oh I didn't see this particular attorney (the Attorney I saw speaking was Sims, at the close of play). So I wouldn't presume to criticise her.

What I was simply stating is that if I was on trial for my life, I would be petrified of having someone who has been practicing law for less than a month doing oral advocacy on my behalf.

That being said, you have referred to Casey's lead attorney as the "Clueless Wonder" (I loved that post BTW) and she seems like she might have a good background at law school. So, as you say, she might be a good addition for the defense after all.

 

[darnudes]

I think she was there the day the newbie got sworn in and KC was having such a good time.

That was 'twartWilliam" esquire, think she was there that day, she's been around for a while now.

 

[A_News_Junkie]

That was 'twartWilliam" esquire, think she was there that day, she's been around for a while now.

Now don't you thwart me like a potential juror -- I said was there that day!

Oh what the heck -- THWART CAKE FOR ALL!
:cupcake::cupcake::cupcake::cupcake::cupcake:
( Do I get half credit with RH for the name? I had to rewind and play it really loud to make out the name <-----JB was more interested in the dig than a proper introduction.)

 

[darnudes]

For those fascinated by the interplay between ICA and Baez (I know I am) I've come across another section that bears watching again. The reason I'm so interested in this is because
1. I think the relationship between ICA and Baez is deteriorating
2. ICA is not a client the defense is able to control for the length of the trial
3. ICA seems to be using the classic "divide and conquer" technique on her attorneys all for reasons which seem unfathomable but I can only surmise that this is ICA at her game playing best
4. I honestly believe that ICA believes that something special is going on between her and Baez
5. This will come back later to haunt Baez when/if he is accused of improper conduct with his client by his client.
6. I think Baez is fully aware that this scenario is coming and could by why his visits to ICA have dwindled down to virtually nothing, I don't think he visits her alone anymore either.

Okay, so we have seen yesterdays spat and then the carry on this morning, ICA was obviously unhappy with her seating arrangements and treatment by Baez, she complained to Mason and Finnell about Baez, Mason went to talk to Baez to smooth over troubled waters so then Baez approached ICA and ICA's response to Baez caused Sims to immediately tell ICA to stop what ever she was saying. The Judge entered the courtroom thus putting an end, for now, to what was happening.

Later in the day when the new jury pool was to be brought in everyone gets up to move their seats to the opposite side of the table. This is what I see next starting at the 2.49 mark:

1. ICA gets up to move her things, Finnell kind of interrupts and motions to Mason and Baez for ICA to sit up with them, Baez must put the kibosh on it and Mason just shrugs his shoulders, you can see ICA motioning to Mason to move down but he won't
2. Eventually Finnell comes back and tells her to sit next to her which she does but she looks very unhappy
3. As the Judge is asking if the state is ready and if the defense is ready, ICA shoots Baez a look that is so sad and forlorn it's quite startling. The look is at mark 4.18.

ICA is so unhappy by what I can only imagine is her feeling that Baez is ignoring her - she's so upset and she looks ready to cry and not because the charges are going to be read out again to another jury pool but by what is happening between her and Baez. Luckily for her, her attention is diverted by the dismissal of the jury pool.

How long before the relationship between Baez and ICA disintegrates entirely?

My guess is not long and this is due partly to them spending so much time together recently and ICA inability to understand where she is and why she is there.

http://www.wftv.com/video/27841998/index.html

 

[logicalgirl]

Now don't you thwart me like a potential juror -- I said was there that day!

Oh what the heck -- THWART CAKE FOR ALL!
:cupcake::cupcake::cupcake::cupcake::cupcake:
( Do I get half credit with RH for the name? I had to rewind and play it really loud to make out the name <-----JB was more interested in the dig than a proper introduction.)

You definitely get all the credit for the Thwartcake my friend!!! I was there when you named it - and we sang Old MacDonald had a Thwart but we didn't say MacDonald.....just sang it to that tune!:floorlaugh:

 

[logicalgirl]

For those fascinated by the interplay between ICA and Baez (I know I am) I've come across another section that bears watching again. The reason I'm so interested in this is because
1. I think the relationship between ICA and Baez is deteriorating
2. ICA is not a client the defense is able to control for the length of the trial
3. ICA seems to be using the classic "divide and conquer" technique on her attorneys all for reasons which seem unfathomable but I can only surmise that this is ICA at her game playing best
4. I honestly believe that ICA believes that something special is going on between her and Baez
5. This will come back later to haunt Baez when/if he is accused of improper conduct with his client by his client.
6. I think Baez is fully aware that this scenario is coming and could by why his visits to ICA have dwindled down to virtually nothing, I don't think he visits her alone anymore either.

Okay, so we have seen yesterdays spat and then the carry on this morning, ICA was obviously unhappy with her seating arrangements and treatment by Baez, she complained to Mason and Finnell about Baez, Mason went to talk to Baez to smooth over troubled waters so then Baez approached ICA and ICA's response to Baez caused Sims to immediately tell ICA to stop what ever she was saying. The Judge entered the courtroom thus putting an end, for now, to what was happening.

Later in the day when the new jury pool was to be brought in everyone gets up to move their seats to the opposite side of the table. This is what I see next starting at the 2.49 mark:

1. ICA gets up to move her things, Finnell kind of interrupts and motions to Mason and Baez for ICA to sit up with them, Baez must put the kibosh on it and Mason just shrugs his shoulders, you can see ICA motioning to Mason to move down but he won't
2. Eventually Finnell comes back and tells her to sit next to her which she does but she looks very unhappy
3. As the Judge is asking if the state is ready and if the defense is ready, ICA shoots Baez a look that is so sad and forlorn it's quite startling. The look is at mark 4.18.

ICA is so unhappy by what I can only imagine is her feeling that Baez is ignoring her - she's so upset and she looks ready to cry and not because the charges are going to be read out again to another jury pool but by what is happening between her and Baez. Luckily for her, her attention is diverted by the dismissal of the jury pool.

How long before the relationship between Baez and ICA disintegrates entirely?

My guess is not long and this is due partly to them spending so much time together recently and ICA inability to understand where she is and why she is there.

http://www.wftv.com/video/27841998/index.html

IMO - Excellent summary Darnudes and I might add, combined with all the motions they have recently lost and JB won't talk to her about it.

 

[logicalgirl]

I had a thought pop into my mind earlier this evening when I was walking my dogs at the beach. Yes, just one - LOL!
I was thinking about why Baez was smirking and looking happy when HHJP was clearly unhappy and dismissed all of the afternoon jurors.

It wasn't because he was thinking - "there, see - told you we couldn't seat an impartial jury" it was because......

He was happy to finally see something "wrong" happen with HHJP's process/courtroom. It was like a -Ha - now's it's your turn instead of mine all the time - you think you are so smart - how'd you like them apples!" To Baez, HHJP was thwarted! And he liked it.

Seriously - I think that was it. It fits with Baez, don't you think?

 

[darnudes]

Ann Finnel, yes.
Jose Baez, IMO, not so much.

He was way to smug IMO, and I have to wonder if he didn't recieve a call from this "witness/juror" when they recieved their notice.

Just speculation, but really, Baez did not act or look surprised to me at all.
He looked rather pleased with himself, as if he had just pulled off a great coup.

Ann Finnell sure looked shocked so if this is the case I don't think she is in on it. Personally though, I don't think even Baez would try and pull a stunt like this.

 

[uklaw]

For those fascinated by the interplay between ICA and Baez (I know I am) I've come across another section that bears watching again. The reason I'm so interested in this is because
1. I think the relationship between ICA and Baez is deteriorating
2. ICA is not a client the defense is able to control for the length of the trial
3. ICA seems to be using the classic "divide and conquer" technique on her attorneys all for reasons which seem unfathomable but I can only surmise that this is ICA at her game playing best
4. I honestly believe that ICA believes that something special is going on between her and Baez
5. This will come back later to haunt Baez when/if he is accused of improper conduct with his client by his client.
6. I think Baez is fully aware that this scenario is coming and could by why his visits to ICA have dwindled down to virtually nothing, I don't think he visits her alone anymore either.

Okay, so we have seen yesterdays spat and then the carry on this morning, ICA was obviously unhappy with her seating arrangements and treatment by Baez, she complained to Mason and Finnell about Baez, Mason went to talk to Baez to smooth over troubled waters so then Baez approached ICA and ICA's response to Baez caused Sims to immediately tell ICA to stop what ever she was saying. The Judge entered the courtroom thus putting an end, for now, to what was happening.

Later in the day when the new jury pool was to be brought in everyone gets up to move their seats to the opposite side of the table. This is what I see next starting at the 2.49 mark:

1. ICA gets up to move her things, Finnell kind of interrupts and motions to Mason and Baez for ICA to sit up with them, Baez must put the kibosh on it and Mason just shrugs his shoulders, you can see ICA motioning to Mason to move down but he won't
2. Eventually Finnell comes back and tells her to sit next to her which she does but she looks very unhappy
3. As the Judge is asking if the state is ready and if the defense is ready, ICA shoots Baez a look that is so sad and forlorn it's quite startling. The look is at mark 4.18.

ICA is so unhappy by what I can only imagine is her feeling that Baez is ignoring her - she's so upset and she looks ready to cry and not because the charges are going to be read out again to another jury pool but by what is happening between her and Baez. Luckily for her, her attention is diverted by the dismissal of the jury pool.

How long before the relationship between Baez and ICA disintegrates entirely?

My guess is not long and this is due partly to them spending so much time together recently and ICA inability to understand where she is and why she is there.

http://www.wftv.com/video/27841998/index.html

Excellent as per LG, but I think we are trying to read too much into this. Save to say that things are becoming frosty within the DT/ICA sphere I think it is difficult to try and extrapolate so much from incidental actions and motions.

JMO

However, I wonder if we will get more hints in interviews with the DT after the case is over.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Baez was happy with the jury pool being dismissed being because it gives him 1 more day - or 3.
He is not prepared nor is he capable of defending Casey and will welcome any delay and cause as many delays as possible.
Jmo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Chiquita71]

For those fascinated by the interplay between ICA and Baez (I know I am) I've come across another section that bears watching again. The reason I'm so interested in this is because
1. I think the relationship between ICA and Baez is deteriorating
2. ICA is not a client the defense is able to control for the length of the trial
3. ICA seems to be using the classic "divide and conquer" technique on her attorneys all for reasons which seem unfathomable but I can only surmise that this is ICA at her game playing best
4. I honestly believe that ICA believes that something special is going on between her and Baez
5. This will come back later to haunt Baez when/if he is accused of improper conduct with his client by his client.
6. I think Baez is fully aware that this scenario is coming and could by why his visits to ICA have dwindled down to virtually nothing, I don't think he visits her alone anymore either.

Okay, so we have seen yesterdays spat and then the carry on this morning, ICA was obviously unhappy with her seating arrangements and treatment by Baez, she complained to Mason and Finnell about Baez, Mason went to talk to Baez to smooth over troubled waters so then Baez approached ICA and ICA's response to Baez caused Sims to immediately tell ICA to stop what ever she was saying. The Judge entered the courtroom thus putting an end, for now, to what was happening.

Later in the day when the new jury pool was to be brought in everyone gets up to move their seats to the opposite side of the table. This is what I see next starting at the 2.49 mark:

1. ICA gets up to move her things, Finnell kind of interrupts and motions to Mason and Baez for ICA to sit up with them, Baez must put the kibosh on it and Mason just shrugs his shoulders, you can see ICA motioning to Mason to move down but he won't
2. Eventually Finnell comes back and tells her to sit next to her which she does but she looks very unhappy
3. As the Judge is asking if the state is ready and if the defense is ready, ICA shoots Baez a look that is so sad and forlorn it's quite startling. The look is at mark 4.18.

ICA is so unhappy by what I can only imagine is her feeling that Baez is ignoring her - she's so upset and she looks ready to cry and not because the charges are going to be read out again to another jury pool but by what is happening between her and Baez. Luckily for her, her attention is diverted by the dismissal of the jury pool.

How long before the relationship between Baez and ICA disintegrates entirely?

My guess is not long and this is due partly to them spending so much time together recently and ICA inability to understand where she is and why she is there.

http://www.wftv.com/video/27841998/index.html

ITA. darnudes

I had seen the other sections presented, such as the "two year old child comment", my own eyes and now add in this exchange, ITA.

I was taken back to "boyfriends" and how I felt about them when love was unrequited, when I was young. I swear I am not the type to read into things as romantic, I am cynical in that way. I'm not trying to convince anyone, but "forlorn" is exactly what I see. I have been wondering what is really going through Casey's mind and I think I see she is very wrapped up in Jose Baez. It is always about the next man, IMHO.

There was a "hay day" a honeymoon period for Casey and Jose, in the beginning she was free and in his office everyday. Now, the relationship is three years old. All human interaction is a relationship. I am having a relationship with the people at Websleuths even if I never speak to them directly. With my agreement that Casey and Jose are not getting along and the belief Casey has romantic/love/friend/other than strictly platonic, feelings for Jose does not mean I automatically think this is a physical relationship. If I understand correctly, professionals would say a person can have as deep feelings for a person whom they have never met. In other words, lots of people get obsessed with people who do not feel the same and in whom those feelings are not returned.

After they all sat down and Jose did not sit by Casey( I agree with all you saw in these moments darnudes). Remember when Jose used to sit by Casey and console her physically? Casey does, I bet.

In Casey's looks to Jose, I see a woman who thought a man was one way but now he is acting another way. :twocents:

 

[darnudes]

Excellent as per LG, but I think we are trying to read too much into this. Save to say that things are becoming frosty within the DT/ICA sphere I think it is difficult to try and extrapolate so much from incidental actions and motions.

JMO

However, I wonder if we will get more hints in interviews with the DT after the case is over.

See that's the difference in what I'm interested in as opposed to what others are. Some are into the forensics, the cell pings, computer usage forensics, etc. I am more interested in the interplay between the individuals involved, the motivations and cutting through the public face to discern what is going on underneath.

As a child of domestic abuse it is often said that we are extremely proficient at reading body language (you have to know when/where that next blow is coming from) and so these are the sorts of details I dissect. I respect your view that you think I'm trying to read too much into it but I'm confident of my assessments and extrapolations of what I see are NOT incidental actions. This is what I see after careful and repeated viewings of ICA behaviour over a long period of time.

 

[darnudes]

ITA. darnudes

I had seen the other sections presented, such as the "two year old child comment", my own eyes and now add in this exchange, ITA.

I was taken back to "boyfriends" and how I felt about them when love was unrequited, when I was young. I swear I am not the type to read into things as romantic, I am cynical in that way. I'm not trying to convince anyone, but "forlorn" is exactly what I see. I have been wondering what is really going through Casey's mind and I think I see she is very wrapped up in Jose Baez. It is always about the next man, IMHO.

There was a "hay day" a honeymoon period for Casey and Jose, in the beginning she was free and in his office everyday. Now, the relationship is three years old. All human interaction is a relationship. I am having a relationship with the people at Websleuths even if I never speak to them directly. With my agreement that Casey and Jose are not getting along and the belief Casey has romantic/love/friend/other than strictly platonic, feelings for Jose does not mean I automatically think this is a physical relationship. If I understand correctly, professionals would say a person can have as deep feelings for a person whom they have never met. In other words, lots of people get obsessed with people who do not feel the same and in whom those feelings are not returned.

After they all sat down and Jose did not sit by Casey( I agree with all you saw in these moments darnudes). Remember when Jose used to sit by Casey and console her physically? Casey does, I bet.

In Casey's looks to Jose, I see a woman who thought a man was one way but now he is acting another way. :twocents:

Who's putting money on that ICA will be by Baez's side tomorrow? I think it could go either way. Baez was certainly able to concentrate more today without ICA constantly crooking her finger at him or tugging at his sleeves.

This reminds me of the investigation done into Robyn Adams and Maya D - I remember the investigator making a note that one of them had stated that ICA was very upset that Baez's wife was having a baby and that ICA was jealous. I never gave it much thought at the time but I suspect now there could be a lot of truth in that statement. I bet she was pizzed.

I think it just shows how unstable she is that "something" set her off and she continued the spat to the next day when she should be letting the attorneys get on with the most important aspect of her trial, picking the jury. There can only be one reason for this, in my opinion, she is so emotionally tied to Baez (in love perhaps) that any dissension among them is going to cause massive, and I do mean massive, problems for the defense. The only attorney who I think has a chance at controlling her is Ann Finnell.

 

[A_News_Junkie]

You definitely get all the credit for the Thwartcake my friend!!! I was there when you named it - and we sang Old MacDonald had a Thwart but we didn't say MacDonald.....just sang it to that tune!:floorlaugh:

LOL ---- but you are the baker supreme!!!!!

 

[A_News_Junkie]

Excellent as per LG, but I think we are trying to read too much into this. Save to say that things are becoming frosty within the DT/ICA sphere I think it is difficult to try and extrapolate so much from incidental actions and motions.

JMO

However, I wonder if we will get more hints in interviews with the DT after the case is over.

Even JB isn't that _______(fill in the blank with what CM calls us)-ic. There will be no hints and he will hope that ICA doesn't appeal based on the issue.

As to you thinking Darndudes is reading too much into this, I respectfully disagree. I see it too. Everything described and many of the behaviors are why I take so many caps of ICA. I am sick of looking at the chick, but the psychology and game of it all drew me to this case and kept me. In her mind this is romantic and jr. high school all at the same time. Darn pesky trial thing is just slowing down getting to the next base. IMHO.

 

[teddiebear1955]

Ann Finnell sure looked shocked so if this is the case I don't think she is in on it. Personally though, I don't think even Baez would try and pull a stunt like this.

No i dont think Ms Finnell knows about anything but .....Jose oh yea he is proud of what just happened and yes he would try something LIKE this !!!!!!!jmo

 

[Kimster]

For those fascinated by the interplay between ICA and Baez (I know I am) I've come across another section that bears watching again. The reason I'm so interested in this is because
1. I think the relationship between ICA and Baez is deteriorating
2. ICA is not a client the defense is able to control for the length of the trial
3. ICA seems to be using the classic "divide and conquer" technique on her attorneys all for reasons which seem unfathomable but I can only surmise that this is ICA at her game playing best
4. I honestly believe that ICA believes that something special is going on between her and Baez
5. This will come back later to haunt Baez when/if he is accused of improper conduct with his client by his client.
6. I think Baez is fully aware that this scenario is coming and could by why his visits to ICA have dwindled down to virtually nothing, I don't think he visits her alone anymore either.

Okay, so we have seen yesterdays spat and then the carry on this morning, ICA was obviously unhappy with her seating arrangements and treatment by Baez, she complained to Mason and Finnell about Baez, Mason went to talk to Baez to smooth over troubled waters so then Baez approached ICA and ICA's response to Baez caused Sims to immediately tell ICA to stop what ever she was saying. The Judge entered the courtroom thus putting an end, for now, to what was happening.

Later in the day when the new jury pool was to be brought in everyone gets up to move their seats to the opposite side of the table. This is what I see next starting at the 2.49 mark:

1. ICA gets up to move her things, Finnell kind of interrupts and motions to Mason and Baez for ICA to sit up with them, Baez must put the kibosh on it and Mason just shrugs his shoulders, you can see ICA motioning to Mason to move down but he won't
2. Eventually Finnell comes back and tells her to sit next to her which she does but she looks very unhappy
3. As the Judge is asking if the state is ready and if the defense is ready, ICA shoots Baez a look that is so sad and forlorn it's quite startling. The look is at mark 4.18.

ICA is so unhappy by what I can only imagine is her feeling that Baez is ignoring her - she's so upset and she looks ready to cry and not because the charges are going to be read out again to another jury pool but by what is happening between her and Baez. Luckily for her, her attention is diverted by the dismissal of the jury pool.

How long before the relationship between Baez and ICA disintegrates entirely?

My guess is not long and this is due partly to them spending so much time together recently and ICA inability to understand where she is and why she is there.

http://www.wftv.com/video/27841998/index.html

While we can't be sure this is what was going on, it does sound like KC. I remember what the Padilla group told us about how KC was with Rob, the same thing. She craves male attention, to be sure.

Interesting post!