2011.06.07 TRIAL Day Twelve (Afternoon Session)
- Thread starter beach
- Start date
Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread
- Status
sleutherontheside
Retired WS Staff
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2009
- Messages
- 9,874
- Reaction score
- -2
OH............video of real world search??
angelmom
The love stays...forever in our hearts
So humans thought they had two possible sites, Gerus did NOT alert, dig revealed animal remains.
Sounds like Gerus is better at this than people. I'll take his word.
Sounds like Gerus is better at this than people. I'll take his word.
rosepetal1065
Ive got splinters..in the windmills of my mind....
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2008
- Messages
- 1,695
- Reaction score
- 13
Gerus alerted to a drowning victim, while they were still in the water.
I'm wondering that too - if they have video of the dogs searching the Anthony property, car etc. Or do they only film training sessions?
yeknomaras
New Member
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2008
- Messages
- 1,188
- Reaction score
- 1
"he went down on a call" ..... did he die? 
amazing isnt it. Not a care in the world. Her child is dead and she acts like so what!:innocent:
mombomb
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2008
- Messages
- 1,437
- Reaction score
- -3
Jury back in courtroom after lunch recess
Continued Direct Examination of Jason Forgey by LDB:
Jurors had an outing for lunch.
LDB showing witness State's N.R. composite exhibit. He recognized them as K-9 Garris's certification, training logs and his K-9 experience.
JB objected to them being entered into evidence as hearsay and improper (something)
HHBP asked LDB to ask a few more questions.
JF said the first item certification for him and dog for basic training in human remains training course. Next - copy of memo by Sgt David Wade sent to chain of command as to actual certification - 7/29/05. Next - original outside course in Sarasota, basic cadaver course school dated 11/05. Next - continuation of same certificate. Next - Advanced Cadaver Search School completed in 11/06 in Sarasota, copy of certificate. Net - Canine Team Certification dated 12/08 for K-9 Garris, part of FDLE certification. Next - part of examination and evaluation form for 11/06 for K-9 Garris for FDLE certification. Next is another evaluation form - multi-page form. Next - another FDLE certification form for him and dog 11/07, multi-page form.
Next set of documents - copy of training logs he completes when he does a training scenario starting 1/11/05 through 9/06/08.
VOIR DIRE OF WITNESS BY JB:
He is in charge of keeping these records so that he can show the court that the dog has been trained. The training logs deal with the times he was with the dog training, not the field performance.
Objection by LDB - Sustained
No further questions by LDB.
JB objects to proffered exhibits and feels they are inadmissible. HHBP cited 4/21/11 Supreme Court decision and admitted into evidence as Exhibit 144.
Exhibit 144 published to the Jury.
First training by Andy Redman group in 11/05. During this time, he continued to maintain a training log for the dog. The logs identify the dog, handler and what they did that day, where they trained and then the quantities, search area, target locations and whether the target was found. If he had missed the target, it would have been listed under missed. He found all the targets.
Total False Alerts To Date and Total Misses and number of finds - boxes on the form. On this date there were 8 targets and 8 finds.
The bottom half of form contains weather info/condition, wind direction, speed and temperature. Then his comments regarding the different targets.
This is the same format utilized in all of the training records.
LDB shows witness multiple State's exhibits (photos)
He has reviewed the photos as showing him and the dog training in Sarasota in 2005 and 2006. They show some of the things that were required during the training.
LDB submits documents in to evidence as Exhibit 145-160 with no objection from JB
Photos published to the Jury.
Photos from two different schools.
There was training in Sarasota in 11/05 and 11/06. One was basic and the other advanced cadaver dog course. The second one involves more distracting and more proficiency.
Exhibit 145 was from the 2006 course
(JB finding something amusing)
Lights in courtroom dimmed because they were causing a glare on the photos when put on the telestrator.
#145 was an interior search of a haunted house. There was blood in the back on cloth in the corner. His hair is sticking up, he is head snapping, looking into the odor. Photo taken right before the final trained alert.
#146 was the bone room in the haunted house. There were two real bones and Garris had to find them mixed in with fake bones - one on the wall and one in the pile.
#147 (2005) in the middle of a horse training field. The training aid is under the box - there were several boxes. It shows an off lead search.
#148 audio lost
#149 - shows Garris making eye contact with him which is what he always does after his final trained alert.
#150 ?
#151 shows a vehicle search. He has a slack lead.
#152 another vehicle search showing hair on tail changing. Odor was actually under the rear bumper.
#153 Shows the femur as a training aid
#154 is an upper jaw bone training aid
#155 is the horse training field. He is refining the search by directing.
#156 shows the culvert. Training aid was at the center.
#157 - block searches, shows dog's tail and head. Odor is in concrete box, ready to give final trained alert.
#158 shows him working odor in a set of blocks.
#160 shows Garris getting a reward - a ball. Handler praise and ball is his reward.
(ICA and DS whisperig)
He had a few misses and one false alert during this training. They did 15 searches. He missed 2 small pieces of napkin that had a couple of drops of blood in the hallway. There were 15 items and he missed 2. The false alert - 2006 no false alert, 2005 one false alert on the 9th and 3 on the 8th. On the 8th they had 31 searches and he was tired
JB objected and moved to strike - overruled.
31 searches is the most the dog has done in one day and the dog was tired and bored. That was why he gave false alerts. On the 9th he did 12 searches with one false alert. His log doesn't indicate why.
He would never have a dog do 31 searches in one day in the real world. They would normally find one item.
Garris continues maintenance training - minimum 2 specialty trainings a month and then quarterly they are evaluated by either a supervisor or trainer.
Between 7/05 and 6/10 he had 21 quarterly evaluations by supervisor or training. He had no problems with misses or false alerts during this time.
Casey looking bored.
Garris has been trained on residual odor (where a body has been removed). First time in 9/9/05 - body had been located next to a retention pond. He ran it before they moved the deceased. He then went back 10 days later and worked it from 2 different directions to see how the dog reacted. They actually found 2 bones that had been missed.
The next time was 4/4/06 where a transient had been located deceased - approx 2 days - 20-25 yards off the roadway in the woods. There was food around her. He ran it as a training aid. No problems with missing or false alert.
The third time was 7/22/07 - body had been removed from the side of the roadway 10 hours earlier in Osceola County. No issues with misses or false alerts.
Since 2001 he has had 200 real world cadaver calls and 498 training situations.
Garris is a full service dog. He undergoes other training. The dog works as many hours as he does - 80 hours every 2 weeks.
He is typically called to a scene by a detective. Sometimes cold case files, or it could be a fresh case. There have been a few calls he has heard dispatched that he thought he could help with, or he has checked the screen and seen something where he felt he could help. The typical end result is that there is no alert.
In 2005 Garris had no real world cadaver searches.
In 2006 there were 6 calls. Garris alerted once - they found a deceased person. No false alerts.
In 2007 Garris had 9 real world cadaver searches, no alerts.
In 2008 71 real world cadaver searches with 3 alerts - 3/24/08 the first one was a find of a lower jaw bone.
Skipping over this case.
In 2008, after July he had several call outs as it related to the disappearance of Caylee. That is why he went from 9 searches to 71. He was following a number of tips on this case.
He documented two of these cases that appeared to be a small shallow grave. Garris did not alert to either location. They were still dug by forensics and both were animals.
In 2009 Garris had 12 cadaver searches with 1 alert - a find of a drowning victim still under water. He fell out of a canoe and had not surfaced.
In 2010 Garris had 11 searches and no alerts.
Garris is currently retired. His last day of work was in 11/10 and he went down in a call.
The first search in 2006 was documented on video. A male called in and said he heard there was a deceased female and that she had been discarded in a wooded area near a pond. 5 detectives searched on foot, the helicopter came and searched two more times. He was told there was a large alligator in the pond. It was dark. This search was captured on video by the helicopter which stayed around because of the alligator.
LDB wants to introduce the video
JB objects due to no prior disclosure
SIDEBAR #5
Continued Direct Examination of Jason Forgey by LDB:
Jurors had an outing for lunch.
LDB showing witness State's N.R. composite exhibit. He recognized them as K-9 Garris's certification, training logs and his K-9 experience.
JB objected to them being entered into evidence as hearsay and improper (something)
HHBP asked LDB to ask a few more questions.
JF said the first item certification for him and dog for basic training in human remains training course. Next - copy of memo by Sgt David Wade sent to chain of command as to actual certification - 7/29/05. Next - original outside course in Sarasota, basic cadaver course school dated 11/05. Next - continuation of same certificate. Next - Advanced Cadaver Search School completed in 11/06 in Sarasota, copy of certificate. Net - Canine Team Certification dated 12/08 for K-9 Garris, part of FDLE certification. Next - part of examination and evaluation form for 11/06 for K-9 Garris for FDLE certification. Next is another evaluation form - multi-page form. Next - another FDLE certification form for him and dog 11/07, multi-page form.
Next set of documents - copy of training logs he completes when he does a training scenario starting 1/11/05 through 9/06/08.
VOIR DIRE OF WITNESS BY JB:
He is in charge of keeping these records so that he can show the court that the dog has been trained. The training logs deal with the times he was with the dog training, not the field performance.
Objection by LDB - Sustained
No further questions by LDB.
JB objects to proffered exhibits and feels they are inadmissible. HHBP cited 4/21/11 Supreme Court decision and admitted into evidence as Exhibit 144.
Exhibit 144 published to the Jury.
First training by Andy Redman group in 11/05. During this time, he continued to maintain a training log for the dog. The logs identify the dog, handler and what they did that day, where they trained and then the quantities, search area, target locations and whether the target was found. If he had missed the target, it would have been listed under missed. He found all the targets.
Total False Alerts To Date and Total Misses and number of finds - boxes on the form. On this date there were 8 targets and 8 finds.
The bottom half of form contains weather info/condition, wind direction, speed and temperature. Then his comments regarding the different targets.
This is the same format utilized in all of the training records.
LDB shows witness multiple State's exhibits (photos)
He has reviewed the photos as showing him and the dog training in Sarasota in 2005 and 2006. They show some of the things that were required during the training.
LDB submits documents in to evidence as Exhibit 145-160 with no objection from JB
Photos published to the Jury.
Photos from two different schools.
There was training in Sarasota in 11/05 and 11/06. One was basic and the other advanced cadaver dog course. The second one involves more distracting and more proficiency.
Exhibit 145 was from the 2006 course
(JB finding something amusing)
Lights in courtroom dimmed because they were causing a glare on the photos when put on the telestrator.
#145 was an interior search of a haunted house. There was blood in the back on cloth in the corner. His hair is sticking up, he is head snapping, looking into the odor. Photo taken right before the final trained alert.
#146 was the bone room in the haunted house. There were two real bones and Garris had to find them mixed in with fake bones - one on the wall and one in the pile.
#147 (2005) in the middle of a horse training field. The training aid is under the box - there were several boxes. It shows an off lead search.
#148 audio lost
#149 - shows Garris making eye contact with him which is what he always does after his final trained alert.
#150 ?
#151 shows a vehicle search. He has a slack lead.
#152 another vehicle search showing hair on tail changing. Odor was actually under the rear bumper.
#153 Shows the femur as a training aid
#154 is an upper jaw bone training aid
#155 is the horse training field. He is refining the search by directing.
#156 shows the culvert. Training aid was at the center.
#157 - block searches, shows dog's tail and head. Odor is in concrete box, ready to give final trained alert.
#158 shows him working odor in a set of blocks.
#160 shows Garris getting a reward - a ball. Handler praise and ball is his reward.
(ICA and DS whisperig)
He had a few misses and one false alert during this training. They did 15 searches. He missed 2 small pieces of napkin that had a couple of drops of blood in the hallway. There were 15 items and he missed 2. The false alert - 2006 no false alert, 2005 one false alert on the 9th and 3 on the 8th. On the 8th they had 31 searches and he was tired
JB objected and moved to strike - overruled.
31 searches is the most the dog has done in one day and the dog was tired and bored. That was why he gave false alerts. On the 9th he did 12 searches with one false alert. His log doesn't indicate why.
He would never have a dog do 31 searches in one day in the real world. They would normally find one item.
Garris continues maintenance training - minimum 2 specialty trainings a month and then quarterly they are evaluated by either a supervisor or trainer.
Between 7/05 and 6/10 he had 21 quarterly evaluations by supervisor or training. He had no problems with misses or false alerts during this time.
Casey looking bored.
Garris has been trained on residual odor (where a body has been removed). First time in 9/9/05 - body had been located next to a retention pond. He ran it before they moved the deceased. He then went back 10 days later and worked it from 2 different directions to see how the dog reacted. They actually found 2 bones that had been missed.
The next time was 4/4/06 where a transient had been located deceased - approx 2 days - 20-25 yards off the roadway in the woods. There was food around her. He ran it as a training aid. No problems with missing or false alert.
The third time was 7/22/07 - body had been removed from the side of the roadway 10 hours earlier in Osceola County. No issues with misses or false alerts.
Since 2001 he has had 200 real world cadaver calls and 498 training situations.
Garris is a full service dog. He undergoes other training. The dog works as many hours as he does - 80 hours every 2 weeks.
He is typically called to a scene by a detective. Sometimes cold case files, or it could be a fresh case. There have been a few calls he has heard dispatched that he thought he could help with, or he has checked the screen and seen something where he felt he could help. The typical end result is that there is no alert.
In 2005 Garris had no real world cadaver searches.
In 2006 there were 6 calls. Garris alerted once - they found a deceased person. No false alerts.
In 2007 Garris had 9 real world cadaver searches, no alerts.
In 2008 71 real world cadaver searches with 3 alerts - 3/24/08 the first one was a find of a lower jaw bone.
Skipping over this case.
In 2008, after July he had several call outs as it related to the disappearance of Caylee. That is why he went from 9 searches to 71. He was following a number of tips on this case.
He documented two of these cases that appeared to be a small shallow grave. Garris did not alert to either location. They were still dug by forensics and both were animals.
In 2009 Garris had 12 cadaver searches with 1 alert - a find of a drowning victim still under water. He fell out of a canoe and had not surfaced.
In 2010 Garris had 11 searches and no alerts.
Garris is currently retired. His last day of work was in 11/10 and he went down in a call.
The first search in 2006 was documented on video. A male called in and said he heard there was a deceased female and that she had been discarded in a wooded area near a pond. 5 detectives searched on foot, the helicopter came and searched two more times. He was told there was a large alligator in the pond. It was dark. This search was captured on video by the helicopter which stayed around because of the alligator.
LDB wants to introduce the video
JB objects due to no prior disclosure
SIDEBAR #5
Chiquita71
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2009
- Messages
- 3,835
- Reaction score
- 2
LDB: during any of those schools Gerus have misses?
yes
LDB: false alerts?
yes misses
LDB: reasons?
on the one day we had done 15 searches and worked all day. the haunted house he missed two pieces of napkin that had blood but he got 15 and missed two.
LDB: hit on anything that was not there?
correct, refer back to logs, I don't believe there was....06 no false alerts in 05 one false alerts on the 9th and three on the 8th.
LDB: why?
31 searches that day. he was tired
objection
overruled
31 that day. the most he did in one day. he was tired. I indicate that in my log I typed it in the bottom. He was bored and tired.
LDB: next day you indicated...
on the 9th? it was 11 9, soil adopocier and muscle he just false alerted that day
LDB: do those training situations like real life? 31 searches in a day?
no, if you find one item you usually stop
LDB: Gerus have any maintainance training?
quarterly, a certified trainer
LDB: how many times between ? july 2010 under go evaluation by certified trainer?
(is looking) 21 times he was evaluated
LDB: you kept training records?
yes
LDB: any misses or false alerts?
no
LDB: any sit where you knew the body was there then removed, residual odor?
yes
LDB: specific? where and when
yes, the first time was 9 5 05 a body was near a retention pond in the high grass. the gentleman had been deceased for 7 days. I ran a training. I went back ten days. that was the first one and we found two bones they missed.
LDB: second time?
a transient, deceased two days just off the road way into the woods. food around it was a white female. ran as a training aid. It was okay. I ran that one.
LDB: any false alerts?
no, then the next one was a body that was removed from the roadway, ten hours.
LDB: ten after the body had been removed?
yes
LDB: any issues with Gerus missing that area or false alert the area?
no
LDB: since 2001 when you started this work how many cadaver calls?
real world calls: over 200 in training almost 500
LDB: in addition to the cadaver work Gerus is full service and under goes training
yes
LDB: when you work he works?
yes. 80 hours every two weeks
LDB: how called?
a detective will call. cold case file. or a fresh case a dect calls and I get out there. I have heard a few calls dispached I could help with, or check the screen they had heard that someone has been killed and I go out and help.
LDB: are these calls...there is no alert?
that is correct it is typical
LDB: in 2005 did Gerus have any real world?
no not in 2005
LDB: 2006?
six calls
LDB: of six did Gerus alert?
one
LDB: result?
a find, we found a deceased person. I don't know the end result of that, have case document.
LDB: one alert and one find
yes
LDB: no false?
none
LDB: ?
no alerts
LDB: no alert means no false alert
right
LDB:
the first one was 3 24 2008, that was a find.
LDB: what did Gerus find?
a mandable, lower jaw bone with teeth attached.
LDB: the events in this case in 2008 after july 15th 2008 did you have several call outs for Caylee Anthony
absolutely, we had hundreds of tips on this particular case, that is why we went from such a little number of searches to a large number.
LDB: did you see anything that suggested disturbed earth?
yes, documented two of these cases, a recent shallow grave. indent in the dirt, the grass is not the same. small shallow grave. did Gerus alert to these location?
no
LDB: ?
both were animals
LDB: in 2009 did Gerus have any cadaver searches
yes 12 in 2009 a find, a drown victim still underwater, fell out of a canoe and had not surfaced.
LDB: 2010?
11 searches and no finds.
LDB: Gerus is retired?
yes
LDB: last day of work?
sept. 2010 he went down on a call
LDB: you have video tape?
the first one the female in 5 29 2006
LDB: alert?
call in deceased female, had been shot and discarded. the deputies went out and walked the woods and searched the pond and could not find anything. They called helicopter and searched the area again. I helped, the helicopter saw I arrived and said they were leaving but there was a aligator, I asked them to stay while I searched.
LDB: evening dark?
yes, dark
LDB: helicopter caught it because of aligator in the area?
yes
LDB: you have had a chance to review this video?
yes
LDB: fair and accurate representation?
yes
HHJP: any objections?
JB: we object.
yes
LDB: false alerts?
yes misses
LDB: reasons?
on the one day we had done 15 searches and worked all day. the haunted house he missed two pieces of napkin that had blood but he got 15 and missed two.
LDB: hit on anything that was not there?
correct, refer back to logs, I don't believe there was....06 no false alerts in 05 one false alerts on the 9th and three on the 8th.
LDB: why?
31 searches that day. he was tired
objection
overruled
31 that day. the most he did in one day. he was tired. I indicate that in my log I typed it in the bottom. He was bored and tired.
LDB: next day you indicated...
on the 9th? it was 11 9, soil adopocier and muscle he just false alerted that day
LDB: do those training situations like real life? 31 searches in a day?
no, if you find one item you usually stop
LDB: Gerus have any maintainance training?
quarterly, a certified trainer
LDB: how many times between ? july 2010 under go evaluation by certified trainer?
(is looking) 21 times he was evaluated
LDB: you kept training records?
yes
LDB: any misses or false alerts?
no
LDB: any sit where you knew the body was there then removed, residual odor?
yes
LDB: specific? where and when
yes, the first time was 9 5 05 a body was near a retention pond in the high grass. the gentleman had been deceased for 7 days. I ran a training. I went back ten days. that was the first one and we found two bones they missed.
LDB: second time?
a transient, deceased two days just off the road way into the woods. food around it was a white female. ran as a training aid. It was okay. I ran that one.
LDB: any false alerts?
no, then the next one was a body that was removed from the roadway, ten hours.
LDB: ten after the body had been removed?
yes
LDB: any issues with Gerus missing that area or false alert the area?
no
LDB: since 2001 when you started this work how many cadaver calls?
real world calls: over 200 in training almost 500
LDB: in addition to the cadaver work Gerus is full service and under goes training
yes
LDB: when you work he works?
yes. 80 hours every two weeks
LDB: how called?
a detective will call. cold case file. or a fresh case a dect calls and I get out there. I have heard a few calls dispached I could help with, or check the screen they had heard that someone has been killed and I go out and help.
LDB: are these calls...there is no alert?
that is correct it is typical
LDB: in 2005 did Gerus have any real world?
no not in 2005
LDB: 2006?
six calls
LDB: of six did Gerus alert?
one
LDB: result?
a find, we found a deceased person. I don't know the end result of that, have case document.
LDB: one alert and one find
yes
LDB: no false?
none
LDB: ?
no alerts
LDB: no alert means no false alert
right
LDB:
the first one was 3 24 2008, that was a find.
LDB: what did Gerus find?
a mandable, lower jaw bone with teeth attached.
LDB: the events in this case in 2008 after july 15th 2008 did you have several call outs for Caylee Anthony
absolutely, we had hundreds of tips on this particular case, that is why we went from such a little number of searches to a large number.
LDB: did you see anything that suggested disturbed earth?
yes, documented two of these cases, a recent shallow grave. indent in the dirt, the grass is not the same. small shallow grave. did Gerus alert to these location?
no
LDB: ?
both were animals
LDB: in 2009 did Gerus have any cadaver searches
yes 12 in 2009 a find, a drown victim still underwater, fell out of a canoe and had not surfaced.
LDB: 2010?
11 searches and no finds.
LDB: Gerus is retired?
yes
LDB: last day of work?
sept. 2010 he went down on a call
LDB: you have video tape?
the first one the female in 5 29 2006
LDB: alert?
call in deceased female, had been shot and discarded. the deputies went out and walked the woods and searched the pond and could not find anything. They called helicopter and searched the area again. I helped, the helicopter saw I arrived and said they were leaving but there was a aligator, I asked them to stay while I searched.
LDB: evening dark?
yes, dark
LDB: helicopter caught it because of aligator in the area?
yes
LDB: you have had a chance to review this video?
yes
LDB: fair and accurate representation?
yes
HHJP: any objections?
JB: we object.
sleutherontheside
Retired WS Staff
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2009
- Messages
- 9,874
- Reaction score
- -2
JB objects but this is to support training NOT demonstrate a search in this case.
momtective
Lifetime WS Non-Mod
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2008
- Messages
- 11,995
- Reaction score
- 30
Was there ever a doubt that Baez was going to object to the video?
:no:
:no:
Solomisskitty
Inactive
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2009
- Messages
- 469
- Reaction score
- 1
Just signed in - if it hasn't already been said - God bless our canine friends. What a noble job they do for us.
ami
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2010
- Messages
- 3,175
- Reaction score
- 5
"he went down on a call" ..... did he die?
Oh, I thought he meant down as in "south" or something! They said retired, but I guess that could be a euphemism?
katydid23
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Messages
- 67,916
- Reaction score
- 239,303
He died on a job? From an alligator attack? Is that correct? I am so confused. My DD was telling me about her bf problems so I had to focus on that first, while watching the testimony out the corner of my eye...what a bad mom. lol
GracieLu
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2008
- Messages
- 467
- Reaction score
- 2
Found a body under water that had never surfaced. That's one thing I always taught my dogs first. If they can locate a marked stone under water that I have thrown, they proved themselves to me.
that is fabulous! I have a beagle and bassett/beagle and they wont even step outside while its raining, lol... my goodness, i would love to get them in water!
- Status