2011.06.17 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty-One)

[MissJames]

Tow yard manager testify that flies few out of the trunk when he and George opened it. How many, I don't remember the number.
Also, there were maggots in/on the trash bag they threw over the fence.
So someone cleaned up the dead bodies at the house.

I do remember CSI taking a couple of vacuums and wet-vac from the home. (early days)
IMO


IMO

IIRC the vacs were taken after Caylee was found. Months after the clean up would have occured. CA and GA would have cloroxed those,or thrown the originals away. Wonder if they bought any new ones during those months :waitasec:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I don't understand their thinking! George opened the trunk at the towyard, flies came out- then the trunk was left opened for a while at the Anthony home in attempts to air it out..:waitasec:

Dead flies should be in there. Nobody admits to cleaning the trunk. If flies flew out there should still be dead flies.
For all we know, the car was brought to a car wash and vacuumed out there. :waitasec:

 

[mydailyopinions]

I looked at that stain repeatedly, from all angles. I didn't see a thing. Even when it was outlined for me. I didn't see a thing. Some people actually thought they saw fingernails in the stain. I saw a blob. People all saw various different things in it and saw Caylee's imprint in various, different ways from one another. Reminds me of interpreting clouds in the sky. The shape of the stain has no evidentiary value, IMO.

I also didn't see anything for a very, very long time. Then all of a sudden one day when I wasn't looking to see what others were seeing, I seen it. It tore my heart out and I cried all afternoon. It would be a huge impact on this jury, if they could see it the first time they are shown. JMHO

 

[Themis]

I don't know Themis. This gal may indeed vote guilty, but hold out on which charge to vote for. She may be insistent that ICA not receive the DP.

That's another possibility and one fraught with danger of appeal. Compromise verdicts are more vulnerable to an appeal that the evidence didn't support the compromised findings of guilt on a specific lesser charge. Such jury results are the product of negotiations and not deliberations on the evidence. That can lead to serious errors.

 

[Themis]

Utimately, I think there is a huge possibility here that very few of us are going to like the ultimate result of this trial.

 

[QueenD]

Yeah, I don't remember if she admitted to cleaning the trunk either.

We have all heard how obessive "clean" and neat freaks GA and CA are. We can tell by just looking at the home videos they are. So with that being said, when one cleans a car me thinks they also clean/vacuum the trunk. I do when I vacuum my vehicle.

 

[SarahEcho]

Reminds me of interpreting clouds in the sky. The shape of the stain has no evidentiary value, IMO.

I think that sums it up pretty well, humans see the same things differently from one another. I do think the defense is chipping away at Murder 1 DP result. Reasonable doubt doesn't have to concur that a person is innocent.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Why is no one pointing out that vaccuuming would take out a lot of the insect residue? That could certainly be cleaned to a certain extent. TH's heads are just pointing out that there was not enough insect evidence. Vaccuuming??????

I agree!! I had a maggot infestation in my under sink kitchen rug years ago. We went on vaca for a week in July and returned to a closed house that was also hot! My kids were younger then and in and out the door playing all the time and apparently flies had laid eggs in the rug while we were away. It was the grossest thing I've ever seen!!! (and I was a much better housekeeper back when the kids were at home than I am now, LOL!)

Had I been at home doing my housekeeping on the reg like shaking rugs and vacuuming, it probably wouldn't have happened. a lesson learned for a younger WM:floorlaugh:

sorry all for the gross story......:waitasec:

wm

ETA I hadn't thought of this story for years til today's testimony!

 

[Turnadot]

Dead flies should be in there. Nobody admits to cleaning the trunk. If flies flew out there should still be dead flies.
For all we know, the car was brought to a car wash and vacuumed out there. :waitasec:

My personal opinion is that KC cleaned the trunk, still couldn't get rid of the smell, so she ditched it.

 

[MaryAnn]

:tyou: Chiquita 71
First, during voir dire, Juror # 4 stated she couldn't judge anyone. JA tried a challenge (for cause I think) and HHJB denied it.
Second, once the trial began, Juror # 4 did not take notes during the prosecution's case in chief (or very few).
Third, once the defense case in chief began, Juror # 4 had notepad and pen at the ready and is taking notes.
Fourth, it doesn't really even take a reasonable doubt to derail a case. All it takes is one juror who will not vote guilty for any reason (either an unwillingness to judge or out of fear of the potential sentence) and others who will not vote for acquittal. I think we have that here.
That equals a hung jury and a mistrial. I think the State would probably try it again on the charges that are still within the statute of limitations. At that juncture between trials would be the perfect time for ICA to try to plead to something lesser and a sentence with a cap.

I'm also worried about Juror #4. I'm hoping (trying to think positive to help my blood pressure, LOL) that maybe she didn't need to take notes for the Prosecution because all their evidence is truly unforgettable. We all remember most of it except for minor details. Maybe she is taking notes now just to make sure there isn't something that derails her verdict of quilty.

 

[Turnadot]

We have all heard how obessive "clean" and neat freaks GA and CA are. We can tell by just looking at the home videos they are. So with that being said, when one cleans a car me thinks they also clean/vacuum the trunk. I do when I vacuum my vehicle.

Good point!

 

[CementPond]

On a side note, it gets on my nerves the way this CJ on IS talks. Like she ALWAYS has to show her teeth. Grrrr

 

[Etilema]

About the grave wax that can't be cleaned away per the DT expert and can by the pros.
Seems to me that all autopsy equipment including the autopsy table would have to be thrown out after each autopsy of an individual that hadn't died in hospital if that were the case. All gowns, scrubs worn, shoes would have to be tossed.
IMO grave wax can be removed by cleaning fluids designed to clean greasy stains on surfaces like the nylon carpet, that don't absorb fluids.
If not then the whole decomp cleaning industry is a complete scam.
The whole analogy about needing to replace the carpet in the car if ever you had a huge decomp stain was insane IMO. Who buys or drives a car that housed a dead body, stained or not but surely stinky?

ITA. I think it is a farce for this witness to testify about these things which are clearly outside his area of expertise. I mean, he has to be an excellent entomologist, based on his credentials, but that in no way qualifies him to judge whether a decomp stain can be removed, whether the particular type of situation we are describing (a double-bagged toddler in the early stages of decomp) would lead to a waxy permanent leak with tons of flies, etc.

 

[The Farm]

OK trying to get caught up...I had to leave during the pig testimony! Geezz.

 

[darnudes]

I also didn't see anything for a very, very long time. Then all of a sudden one day when I wasn't looking to see what others were seeing, I seen it. It tore my heart out and I cried all afternoon. It would be a huge impact on this jury, if they could see it the first time they are shown. JMHO

Definitely the imprint of a child's body - very disturbing and irrefutable.

 

[JimEverett]

This is a good witness for the defense.

 

[Turnadot]

No matter how many times I look at the stain, or from what angle I don't see an outline of Caylee at all; just a stain. People traced it and I still didn't see it. IMO, it won't do a bit of good to show it to the jury.

 

[ohiogirl]

:tyou: Chiquita 71
First, during voir dire, Juror # 4 stated she couldn't judge anyone. JA tried a challenge (for cause I think) and HHJB denied it.
Second, once the trial began, Juror # 4 did not take notes during the prosecution's case in chief (or very few).
Third, once the defense case in chief began, Juror # 4 had notepad and pen at the ready and is taking notes.
Fourth, it doesn't really even take a reasonable doubt to derail a case. All it takes is one juror who will not vote guilty for any reason (either an unwillingness to judge or out of fear of the potential sentence) and others who will not vote for acquittal. I think we have that here.
That equals a hung jury and a mistrial. I think the State would probably try it again on the charges that are still within the statute of limitations. At that juncture between trials would be the perfect time for ICA to try to plead to something lesser and a sentence with a cap.

If you have one juror who will not deliberate, can the judge remove them and put in an alternate?

 

[Just K]

After the Operations Manager at Johnson's towing tossed the trash over the fence and before he retrieved the bag and later deposited it in the large on-site dumpster, did he see any Maggots, Bugs, Larvae or Pupae? Did he see a stain...if not then ICA probably did an initial cleaning out of the car, in A's garage, and used their vacuum. This was probably followed by tossing the residue from the vacuum and the car at the Amscot dumpster. Then she left the car to be towed.

CA may very well have just tried to get rid of the smell.

If Tow Truck manger saw the stain...he might be able to say more about it. But, with Caylee being triple bagged and laundry bagged, too...a good guess would be that very little bodily fluids dripped into the trunk and onto the liner. So possibly there was very little stain to see, anyway.

I still wonder why Amy isn't recalled to testify to her text to Casey about Casey taking her duct tape.

 

[Laynee]

Just heard on IS, Vasco Thompson making a statement. He did not know GA, never talked to GA, just saw him on tv...and only had the phone ### after Feb of 09! Hmmm...wonder who had the cell phone # before that?????