2011.06.22 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty-five)

[Murphismo]

True! Do you know if there is a video of the jury selection where we could at least hear Juror 4's interview?

Although I understand the worry that many of you have with juror #4 and for good reason, I do wonder if anyone considers that this lovely woman very well could have said those things, just to be saying them? For that matter, no one really truly knows any of these jurors just by the jury selection.

Juror #4 could have said these things just because she felt it would get her out of this case and knowing it was a death penalty case, it was the closest thing to the right thing to say to get her dismissed.


On Sunday, right here in my town, a 6 year old child was drowned by her Grandmother. The Grandmother drove to the pond owner's home and admitted to what she had done, then subsequently admitted the same to authorities. Between Monday and Today, Lord knows at the people who would normally say "I couldn't place judgement" have come out on facebook wishing they could get their hands on that woman and drown her themselves.

I truly believe that where children are concerned, many people can say one thing, truly believing it, then be placed in a situation that causes them to re evaluate what they have always believed in themselves.

I truly am not worried about this juror. At this point, she has been witness to Caylee's skull, the trash bags she was thrown away in and Casey Anthony in the flesh sitting 20 feet away with no care or concern on her face for her child. One can only imagine how her beliefs could change with just these few things staring at her.

I hope you are correct, I didn't give it much thought until JC and NG started in on the point that she ONLY takes notes during the defense...

 

[MomCat]

1. It doesn't.

2. DP's were halted for a time period because challenges that the electric chair was cruel. Then we went to the needle.

3. That would be Ron White.

Ah, good ol' Tater Salad.

Thanks for IDing it for me!

 

[Kentjbkent]

Ok so wait, JB whines he doesn't have time to do research for the trial, but he has time for this??? I thought interviews were a no no

http://news.lalate.com/2011/06/21/jose-baez-grants-first-interview-since-casey-anthony-trial/

Makes perfect sense to me.

Unlike others, I don't believe Baez will be a MSM media darling when this trial is over, and I think he knows it....

So what to do?

Start the groundwork with a group of citizens who haven't been following this case for three years, nor his antics right now....the Spanish speaking crowd...

Think Baez is attempting to set himself up to be "expert lawyer" of this small Spanish media group....

 

[logicalgirl]

Luv it, lol

Not actually "his" personal facebook page. That came up a few months ago and was debunked.

 

[RR0004]

My point being is that the she could not confirm Homicide without using the same opinions that she would have to use to conclude a cause of death.

She may have made the right determination but it is all still in her method of operation so why did she decided to use the method for deciding homicide and then stop short on the COD?

I'm not her, but perhaps she couldn't because of the whole chicken and the egg thingy. Which came first...death from chloroform...or death from asphyxiation...meaning was there enough chloroform to sedate Caylee...or too much that killed her...or was it more likely that both contributed to her death...which explains her labeling Caylee's death a homicide...however, without being able to test blood and examine body parts she couldn't conclusively state the means.
I always wondered why the State went with both...I think I understand now.

 

[Bobbarita]

( I hope this is not in the wrong place) I have to say I admire your sand for sticking with this trial. I've not missed one minute of it up until about two sessions ago for the simple fact that I'm so emotionally involved that I don't want to get let down if/likely when this jury hangs. If it weren't for Juror four I'd bet my paycheck the jury would come back with a verdict of felony murder one - but frankly she scares me and from what I have heard I don't believe she's going to vote on anything but aquittal for the simple fact she stated that it is NOT her place to judge.

But here is my question: Assuming a mistrial or hung jury, can the state use any/all the defense statements/experts/defense against them or can the defense get all new experts, attorneys, a whole new defense, etc...? Anyone know?

I totally fail to understand WHY a juror who states she is "unable to judge" would be permitted to sit on a jury. Isn't that the PURPOSE of a jury to JUDGE guilt or innocence? Jurors have to JUDGE the validity of the evidence, the veracity of testimony, etc.

My understanding is that alternates are chosen to be able to replace jurors who cannot do their job. If she is truly "unable to judge" than she would be unable to judge either innocence OR guilt. I don't think the statement applies only to her not being able to assess guilt. So therefore, IMO, if she cannot do the job of a juror, she should be replaced before deliberations begin.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Look at picture #16. Shows HHJP when he was a SA. My how the styles have changed.:floorlaugh:

I was 3 y/o then!

 

[nachomama]

 

[~n/t~]

Thank you and the determination of 'homicide by undetermined means' is done all the time by ME's.

Yes it is. You're welcome.

 

[Tipstaff]

I'm going to ask this again. In ICA's defense claim, do they say that George found Caylee foating in the pool? It takes time for a body to float, due to gases in body, components in water, the temperature, open wounds in the body, etc. I hope that I did this post correctly, showing my source, etc.

I do not claim that this following information is the most factual, just bringing up the information for examination. Because, if it takes a while for the body to float, and they are claiming he found the body floating, there is a time element to explore there.


Here's some information gleaned from: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_before_a_body_floats_after_drowning

Base time period is body will rise off the bottom in 4 1/2 days.

Add 24 hours for every 2 deg F below 50-water temp.
Subtract 8 hours for every 5 deg over 55-deg water temp.
Add 2 days if he was thin build, under weight or under 7 years old
Subtract 12 hours for every 25 lbs overweight
Reduce this time by 15% if they ate within the last 3 hours and 20%
if there was beer involved.

90 deg F 24 hrs
80 deg F 48 hrs
70 deg F 72 hrs
60 deg F 4-7 days
50 deg F uncertain

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_before_a_body_floats_after_drowning#ixzz1Q1hfSOr2
​

Aqua

Going to tell you what I remember - other poster help if I am not accurate.

JB said in his opening that George came walking out to Casey with a drowned Caylee in his arms.

JB did not indicate if Caylee was at the bottom of the pool or floating. He did not say if George was wet or dry.

JB plays fast and loose - yesterday he responded to something the state said with a response of "I never said what time she drowned".

Many posters have said if Caylee was found immediately after drowning she would have been at the bottom of the pool.

Hope this helps a bit!

 

[logicalgirl]

I don't mean to butt in but I am so sick of the attitude of ppl today; on In sessions they are discussing whether or not Baez is being picked on by the Honorable Judge Belvin Perry, are you kidding me. iirc Baez is not even Death Penalty qualified and has tried every back door there is to get in what he thinks will help his client. What is wrong w/ppl today! If she's guilty, she's guilty! But to start making up shuff, and now the "talking Heads think he is being picked on. Really?

Yeah sure - that's why HHJP hasn't hauled him up on the carpet during the trial and charged him with contempt for ignoring his expert orders at least three times....cause he's picking on him....:loser:

When WESH cut to their news after the trial recessed, I sat down in time to see a trial clip from one going on right now - the young athlete who died (?) I guess it is a wrongful death case - anyhow, the Judge, whose last name was Evans, was literally screaming at one of the attorneys that he was going to charge her with contempt for bringing up sickle cell something or another again. I was shocked watching him compared to HHJP's reserved manner.

 

[Cat99]

She could NOT 100% say how Caylee was murdered. Homicide was determined based on many factors including the fact that Caylee was missing for 31 days, was not reported missing by the mom but was reported missing by her grandmother. She ruled out accident theory because she said 100% of the time, accidents are called into 911. She gave the example of drowning. Even when the parent or adult knows the child is probably dead, they still call 911 in hopes of reviving the child. They don't hide the body for 31 days.

I think she also factored in that duct tape was on Caylee's face - which there never should be on a child face. Am I remembering correctly?

JMO

 

[Etilema]

I'm not her, but perhaps she couldn't because of the whole chicken and the egg thingy. Which came first...death from chloroform...or death from asphyxiation...meaning was there enough chloroform to sedate Caylee...or too much that killed her...or was it more likely that both contributed to her death...which explains her labeling Caylee's death a homicide...however, without being able to test blood and examine body parts she couldn't conclusively state the means.
I always wondered why the State went with both...I think I understand now.

I thought it was very interesting that when Baez was questioning his DNA witness, he gave the scenario of if someone had tape put over their mouth and nose AND THEN died. I wonder if he is telegraphing that that was the order of events?

 

[mfcmom]

Why does ICA look so happy while on trial for killing her daughter? Go figure. JMO

 

[Phoebeb]

hi....OT post but if anyone's interested in watching the Jason Young trial (accussed of murdering his pregnant wife, Raleigh, NC)...his trial is being broadcast live as well and he's been on the stand today and after lunch (2:00pm EST) I believe his cross-examination will begin. Just incase you are in withdrawal over Casey's trial in recess.

www.wral.com

Thank you so much! I was really obsessed with that case after MY was murdered. Too much! So I will definitely tune in now that JY is taking the stand. How's the state's case going so far?

 

[Etilema]

I think she also factored in that duct tape was on Caylee's face - which there never should be on a child face. Am I remembering correctly?

JMO

She specifically said no child should have duct tape on her face when she dies. But I would think she also thinks that no child should have duct tape on their mouth, period!

 

[Soulmagent]

She could NOT 100% say how Caylee was murdered. Homicide was determined based on many factors including the fact that Caylee was missing for 31 days, was not reported missing by the mom but was reported missing by her grandmother. She ruled out accident theory because she said 100% of the time, accidents are called into 911. She gave the example of drowning. Even when the parent or adult knows the child is probably dead, they still call 911 in hopes of reviving the child. They don't hide the body for 31 days.

She could have drawn the same conclusion to determine the cause of death. She ruled out accidental already . That means to find the cause of death on the homicide victim she could have compared other homicde victims who have no findings of trama and did her data comparison to those victims to support her conclusions of homicide by asphyxiation. Which I think would have been very important for her to try and do. I just want to know why she didnt.

 

[Melanie]

GAHHHHH! Now that woke me up. WTH is she doing.

IMHO - it's clear she is a psychopath (and no, I don't consider that name calling). Totally clueless of what she's doing there and why.



MOO

Mel

 

[Bobbarita]

IS playing Baez' OS. Reflecting on it at this point in time it seems even more weak than it did when I first heard it.

 

[chasing.halos]

(TIP for posting pictures~ Right click on image you wish to share.Click Properties. You will then see "address, URL" in the box. Highlight the address and then right click Copy. Here at WS, click on Insert Image. Right click in the box (where it says http) and then click Paste. Click ok. Hip hip hooray )