2011.06.25 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty-eight)

[beeshie]

I'm sure this has been discussed, but does anyone else find it "unique" that GR reports that Jose was frushtrated ober rulings from the bench that would keep him from bringing out the abuse theory, and today, Jose is whining over the Furton issue and says basically the same thing? "If we have to, we will tailor Furton's testimony, narrow his testimony..."
I smell a rat. A rat with a mustache and one with a pocket square.

I don't understand your point.

 

[kas227]

My guess in listening and watching Lee in the last while? Saying what I would probably be saying at that moment - don't touch me - don't you dare touch me...
He has just watched his mother walk very close to the perjury line to try and save ICA's skin like she has always done. He apparently knew Baez was going to try to raise the "parents thought he was maybe the child's father?" Geez would you fall into your mother's arms right after testifying about being emotionally shut out by your parents because they were catering to ICA?

I can tell you I would not. And we know he had lunch by himself that day apparently because he wanted to.

I also heard in his testimony that he was hurt because the rest of the family refused to include him in the birth of the baby. Now you have to ask ... why would they do that unless there was a riff in the family at that time? And ... could the riff be that the rest of the family suspected he was the father? How plausible is it that Casey had spun yet another lie and told her parents that Lee had sexually abused her and thought Lee was the father? Maybe it was easier for her to do that than tell her parents that she didn't know who the father was. And ... to kill two birds with one stone, she could now turn her parents full attentions on her. Because after all ... she was all about making everything all about her.

 

[grandmaj]

This would fit until the pros came out and the dt met privately with HHJP. Any charges made against the pros could NOT keep them out.

I agree. Casey was with Mason. She was with another female attorney in that cell. She then came out flailing her arms. She did not look at Baez. Something has happened on the DT. Either Casey wants on the stand and they are recommending that she not. CM would know that it would not be in his client's best interest. He would tell the court and make sure the judge addresses the issue. Baez I don't have much faith in.

Whatever happened this morning I believe is Casey Anthony having one of her melt-downs and the defense team having to reel her back in. Too much drama. She appeared to be upset with Baez. Maybe she decided her defense was ineffective. But Casey was the leader of whatever happened in my opinion. She was just being the same as she has been all along. All about Casey.

 

[QuietStorm]

Listening to CA -- saying ICA's friends also used the desktop computer in the A's home -- NAME ONE CA?????:rocker:

Zenaida Fernandez Gonzales
Juliette Lewis
Rachel Ferrell
Jeff
KC's "bosses" from work
All KC's friends who came to the baby shower

 

[3doglady]

In rewatching today's events, I believe that ICA and the DT are accusing the PT of doing something improper. I believe they are still trying for a mistrial and are focusing on something FG did.

Watch the part when CM comes out of the first meeting with JP and the DT.

CM speaks with JA, LDB and FG but he is only directing his comments to FG.

CM gets very animated and then FG crosses his arms in a defensive posture and then LDB gestures with her hand for him not to comment back to CM.

Look closly as CM is talking to FG, CM is feisty and not sickly.

The PT then wants this on record and gestures to the court reporter to follow them into the other room.

When they finally return at the end of the events FG is not looking or sitting by LDB or JA and is on his cell phone and appears agitated.

I believe that court was recessed so JP could look at all the accusations, further investigate and make a legal ruling before continuing with any testimony. I think he sealed the conversation so that any unfounded accusations won't be on the record.


I think at the very end ICA seems very pleased and I believe CM and JB are not at odds but are still working to throw this trial into a tail spin.

CM enjoys, to paraphrase him, sticking it to the state and so does JB.

I don't think anything so far has divided them.

I thought the same thing but there is more to it. Before this CM was yelling at the DT when they were in back with KC. When the PT is going in back with the DT, JB does not want it on the record but JA insists. CM motioned to DS to keep KC away. DS gets the female DT to take her in another room so KC cannot read the transcript on DS laptop. The two female junior DT's are reading the laptop. Their reaction looks like something big is going on and they do not look happy. Every time the door opens where KC is, the 2 female DT's jump apart and look at door like they don't want KC to hear what they are saying. The other male DT looks nervous. While this is going on, CA reads a text and looks up at GA with clear surprise on her face. GA looks at it and says OMG. CA gets up and leaves. When KC enters the courtroom she throws her hands up in the air like she's angry. DS closes her laptop so KC can not read it. JB enters first then CM. CM looks sick (I don't mean physically). HHJP keeps his cool until he steps down to talk to the jury. He's walking fast and not looking happy. When he returns he walks past KC but does not look at her. She openly smirks at him and leans forward to watch him. Looks to me like she's thinking "Got cha" All this leads me to think the DT just found out about some incriminating evidence against KC and are accusing JG of hiding it.

 

[Etilema]

Yep. Backed the car into the garage, borrowed the shovel from the neighbor to bag the remains, took the shovel to the backyard to clean it (hence the cadaver dog hit), then returned the shovel to the neighbor and went on her merry way.

What really brought that all together for me was the butyric acid (first volitile fat to leak during decomposition) found in the carpet fibers from the trunk, the single hair with post mortem banding found loose in the trunk, and Dr. Haskell's testimony that the body was placed into the trunk during the earliest stages of decomp. and remained there for 3-5 days.

And what made me think of all this today? CA's testimony that she looked up chlorophyll and chloroform because she thought her dogs were eating poisonous plants. That's a crock. You don't look up a chemical found in almost every plant on earth because you think a plant is poisonous. You look up the plant itself to see if it has poisonous properties. So where were the searches for bamboo? If they had been there, you better believe the DT would have told us all about them. Did they? Nope. And, if all CA did was an innocent little search on chlorophyll that lead her to look up chloroform (please!), isn't it a mighty big coincidence that Dr. Vass just happens to find "shocking" levels of chloroform in the air sample he took from the trunk of the car?

So, there's chloroform in the trunk of the car, there's a dead child in the trunk of the car who, according to testimony from both Vass and Haskell, is in there from the very earliest stages of decomposition. And, we find the skeletonized body of this child many months later, and she has duct tape attached to her skull. All of this, taken together, tells me that ICA chloroformed Caylee, duct taped her mouth shut, stashed her in the trunk of her vehicle, and went to party with loverboy. Maybe she killed Caylee on purpose (but I don't think so, else why not double bag her from the jump) or maybe she just wanted time with lover boy without the "little snothead" underfoot. Either way, the charges are the same.

And now, I think the mock juror should retire.

This ties up the facts quite well!

Only thing I'm not sure about--I don't think she would have put duct tape across Caylee's face in quite that way had she intended to remove it later, since it was attached to the hair. I think either she put it on initially with the intention of killing her (either by chloroform or suffocation) or she put it on after death, to keep fluids from leaking.

 

[grandmaj]

I agree. Casey was with Mason. She was with another female attorney in that cell. She then came out flailing her arms. She did not look at Baez. Something has happened on the DT. Either Casey wants on the stand and they are recommending that she not. CM would know that it would not be in his client's best interest. He would tell the court and make sure the judge addresses the issue. Baez I don't have much faith in.

Whatever happened this morning I believe is Casey Anthony having one of her melt-downs and the defense team having to reel her back in. Too much drama. She appeared to be upset with Baez. Maybe she decided her defense was ineffective. But Casey was the leader of whatever happened in my opinion. She was just being the same as she has been all along. All about Casey.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/28355538/detail.html

Now if you look at the WESH video from today you see a court officer on a cell phone. He is speaking to someone I might assume out behind the Casey Door. Next thing you know all of the lawyers file out back.

Casey with her arms flailing yesterday and today tells me that she is upset about something and acting out. I think she is so delusional that she feels if she takes the stand she can get herself off. I really do.

 

[QuietStorm]

I don't see a solid SA's case from my vantage point, and yes, I think JA would certainly go out on a limb to get <mod snip> convicted. He is the most widely publicized prosecutor in the world at this moment in time... you think he wants to lose this case with it everywhere in the worldwide media?? moo

I don't see it that way. My thought is that JA is an employee of the state. I don't see anything in his mannerisms or speech that suggests he would go out on a limb to get anyone falsely convicted, but I do think he'd work very hard to get someone guilty convicted.

These prosecuters have lived with this case from nearly day one. They've seen the pictures and videos of the live Caylee. They hoped and maybe prayed for her safe return. Then they saw her ravaged body and became even more vested. This has to hurt, same as it hurts us. Same as it seems to hurt the whole world except the ones we'd think would be hurting the most.

There are some good people in the world and I think JA is one of them. If I'm proven wrong, that's okay - there's no shame in that.

 

[pinkfly]

excellent analysis!
I agree
It matches with what I saw LDBurdick and Mr. George do yesterday at the end of the day. I've never seen LDB soooooo angry! She stomped over to the defense table and leaned into Mason's face and said something, while Baez, the Inmate, Sims, and Fryer looked stunned, and Mr. George followed behind, then LDB stomped back to the Defense table. This was at the same time that Ashton walked over to the defense table and slapped down the yellow paper in front of Baez [probably with the supervisor's name of Dr. Wm Rodriguez with the DoD].

Looks like Mason was trying to be the peacemaker today, to put out whatever fire got ignited yesterday. We know that the Defense filed a Motion to Dismiss claiming prosecutorial misconduct.
Maybe Mason offered to withdraw that nonsense if the prosecutors will go easier on Baez with the motions for sanctions?

BBM really. I knew there was another motion filed but I did not know it was pros misconduct. On TV last night I heard LKB say the defense filed something against DOD, and I thought she said for intimidating a witness. Was that really against the SA? yikes.:banghead:

 

[passin_through]

JB is saying the alleged sexual abuse accounts for ICA's totally oddball behavior AFTER Caylee's death. That she was used to "pushing her pain down" and going into denial mode, as she had learned to do that in order to cope since she was a young child. He hopes to excuse the 31 days of partying that followed the death of one's baby, and all the crazy lies she told to anyone and everyone to cover up the "accidental" death.

Push her pain down my arse. That girl isn't a drunk, a drugger an over-eater.

She is just a liar, was a liar and still is a liar and will forever be a liar.

That's not abuse how most of understand it-- that's coddling to the point of abuse-- that's what made Casey so nasty.

Cindy can't give it up, even with a dead grand-baby. She is loving Casey to death and can't see it.

Cindy thinks she's doing good, being an awesome mom.

Casey is a victim of being coddled, loved and adored too much.

They never let her know she could do wrong, her chit doesn't stink.

Look where THAT went...

 

[LambChop]

That was the script for Lee, but he didn't follow through ... Baez' good buddy Geraldo told the world.
I think Lee was crying because he couldn't recite the script and help save his sister.
I think the Inmate was crying when she realized Lee was NOT going to follow the script.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...anthony-trial-day-28-20110625,0,2868459.story
June 25, 2011
excerpt:
Rivera also shared details about the Baez lunch with Juan Williams on "The O'Reilly Factor" television show.

He observed: "He [Baez] wanted that jury to know that those parents feared Lee Anthony was the father of that child. That's why they didn't want him involved in the baby's birth. That's where he was going. The judge stopped it."

So if JB could not get LA to say it he got GR to say it for him.

 

[3doglady]

This would fit until the pros came out and the dt met privately with HHJP. Any charges made against the pros could NOT keep them out.

They all came out at the same time. JB, CM and then the PT. The first time, after the sidebar, it was just the DT and KC. That is when CM was yelling. HHJP went in a different door. That's when CM and JB came out and had the discussion with the PT. Are you saying the DT met with HHJP after he dismissed the jury?

 

[gngr~snap]

This ties up the facts quite well!

Only thing I'm not sure about--I don't think she would have put duct tape across Caylee's face in quite that way had she intended to remove it later, since it was attached to the hair. I think either she put it on initially with the intention of killing her (either by chloroform or suffocation) or she put it on after death, to keep fluids from leaking.

JMO- and a warning to boot... but the deaths I have witnessed burp and belch a lot... it was creepy to me! even an hour later..

The first one I saw I was only 21 in nursing school sooo....
IMO the tape was to stop that til she figured out what to do..

IF IT WASN'T THE MURDER WEAPON

 

[kas227]

That was the script for Lee, but he didn't follow through ... Baez' good buddy Geraldo told the world.
I think Lee was crying because he couldn't recite the script and help save his sister.
I think the Inmate was crying when she realized Lee was NOT going to follow the script.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...anthony-trial-day-28-20110625,0,2868459.story
June 25, 2011
excerpt:
Rivera also shared details about the Baez lunch with Juan Williams on "The O'Reilly Factor" television show.

He observed: "He [Baez] wanted that jury to know that those parents feared Lee Anthony was the father of that child. That's why they didn't want him involved in the baby's birth. That's where he was going. The judge stopped it."

Is it possible that he couldn't follow the script to say he sexually abused Casey because he didn't do it? Maybe, unlike the other two Anthonys, when it came right down to it, he wasn't willing to do whatever it takes (like Cindy and George) to keep Casey from being convicted ... including purger himself in court. I agree that this could be one of the reasons for his tears and it also may be the reason why after his testimony when the court broke for lunch that he ate alone and not with his parents.

 

[grandmaj]

Good Luck with Jose Baez filing anything against the DOD. The DOD will eat Baez alive. JA said that he was told by the DOD Captain that there are regulations which had not been followed. The defense released the witness. Now all of a sudden there is a problem? I doubt it. Baez knows he is facing a major issue at the end of trial with contempt issues. This is smoke and mirrors and defense games IMO. The prosecutor an officer of the court stood up and stated for the record what happened. Now let the defense prove it didn't. Again Baez is playing for the court of public opinion. He wants a jury leak he is trying to hard to get this stuff out there by LKB and Geraldo.

 

[katydid23]

I was thinking about Lee's testimony. Do you think he was playing the defense like he has been played? Everything seemed primed for his bombshell, the tissues, the tears triggering ICA's tearful performance...then "I wasn't invited to the birth."
And Jose, "What else were you mad about? What else had you upset? Why were you mad? Anything else make you mad?"
"Nope."
If he did play them like a fiddle, I will laugh so hard!! I'm already laughing...

I saw that clip being played again on HLN this morning and they had a side by side view of a Casey Cam while he testified. She was crying and sniveling, and when Baez first asked him, "What ELSE were you mad about?"... Casey stopped and held her breath, motionless...just waitin for it ...watch it back-----she was all ready for the bombshell....

then when he didn't respond as she expected, she began to really cry. lol

 

[LambChop]

This ties up the facts quite well!

Only thing I'm not sure about--I don't think she would have put duct tape across Caylee's face in quite that way had she intended to remove it later, since it was attached to the hair. I think either she put it on initially with the intention of killing her (either by chloroform or suffocation) or she put it on after death, to keep fluids from leaking.

Once duct tape is wet it's useless and it appears the double bagging was to deal with the liquids. jmo

 

[carole]

I thought the same thing but there is more to it. Before this CM was yelling at the DT when they were in back with KC. When the PT is going in back with the DT, JB does not want it on the record but JA insists. CM motioned to DS to keep KC away. DS gets the female DT to take her in another room so KC cannot read the transcript on DS laptop. The two female junior DT's are reading the laptop. Their reaction looks like something big is going on and they do not look happy. Every time the door opens where KC is, the 2 female DT's jump apart and look at door like they don't want KC to hear what they are saying. The other male DT looks nervous. While this is going on, CA reads a text and looks up at GA with clear surprise on her face. GA looks at it and says OMG. CA gets up and leaves. When KC enters the courtroom she throws her hands up in the air like she's angry. DS closes her laptop so KC can not read it. JB enters first then CM. CM looks sick (I don't mean physically). HHJP keeps his cool until he steps down to talk to the jury. He's walking fast and not looking happy. When he returns he walks past KC but does not look at her. She openly smirks at him and leans forward to watch him. Looks to me like she's thinking "Got cha" All this leads me to think the DT just found out about some incriminating evidence against KC and are accusing JG of hiding it.

BBM

Who's JG??

 

[teedie2]

I have a lot of trouble finding things here at WS, but someone else might be able to find what I am going to reference here.

It seems like I recall from very early in the case that a bunch of sleuths here had determined that Baez was not and is not death penatly qualified.

For him to be representing himself to Beth Karas as being death penalty qualified is a very big mistruth.

Did he also say at the same time that he had appeared in 47 trials? Maybe "appeared" is not the right word, but my mind's a blank right now.

 

[pinkfly]

Yep. Backed the car into the garage, borrowed the shovel from the neighbor to bag the remains, took the shovel to the backyard to clean it (hence the cadaver dog hit), then returned the shovel to the neighbor and went on her merry way.

What really brought that all together for me was the butyric acid (first volitile fat to leak during decomposition) found in the carpet fibers from the trunk, the single hair with post mortem banding found loose in the trunk, and Dr. Haskell's testimony that the body was placed into the trunk during the earliest stages of decomp. and remained there for 3-5 days.

And what made me think of all this today? CA's testimony that she looked up chlorophyll and chloroform because she thought her dogs were eating poisonous plants. That's a crock. You don't look up a chemical found in almost every plant on earth because you think a plant is poisonous. You look up the plant itself to see if it has poisonous properties. So where were the searches for bamboo? If they had been there, you better believe the DT would have told us all about them. Did they? Nope. And, if all CA did was an innocent little search on chlorophyll that lead her to look up chloroform (please!), isn't it a mighty big coincidence that Dr. Vass just happens to find "shocking" levels of chloroform in the air sample he took from the trunk of the car?

So, there's chloroform in the trunk of the car, there's a dead child in the trunk of the car who, according to testimony from both Vass and Haskell, is in there from the very earliest stages of decomposition. And, we find the skeletonized body of this child many months later, and she has duct tape attached to her skull. All of this, taken together, tells me that ICA chloroformed Caylee, duct taped her mouth shut, stashed her in the trunk of her vehicle, and went to party with loverboy. Maybe she killed Caylee on purpose (but I don't think so, else why not double bag her from the jump) or maybe she just wanted time with lover boy without the "little snothead" underfoot. Either way, the charges are the same.

And now, I think the mock juror should retire.

Mock Juror may retire for the evening only. OK I will give you Sunday off too. But Mock Juror must be in place on Monday morning or she will not be earning her mock $30/day. :seeya: