2011.07.08 - Dateline NBC

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Well, I hope that they have had a chance to see this program, along with a few others.
And, I hope that this jury also starts to do some looking onto why people are so outraged, and actually see all the real evidence that is out here/there/everywhere on the case.

I wonder what they will be thinking in another week or two.
 
I'm not sure what 'is that something you see every day?' means or has to do with anything.

But yes, it just proves there was duct tape on a skull. It doesn't tell me that the duct tape was the murder weapon. There are a number of explanations for the duct tape, and I'd have to know more before I could decide that it was, in fact, the murder weapon.

You know, it wasn't really even necessary to believe the duct tape was the murder weapon in order to find Casey guilty. Common sense alone says that when a mother does not report her child missing, has the smell of a dead body in her car, and tells lie after lie after lie about what happened to that child....the mother is guilty of causing the child's death. You don't let her walk out of court a free woman.
 
I just watched the entire dateline episode on their website. All in all, they did a very good presentation.

My head was spinning, though, with the juror said that them considering her behavior during the 31 days would have been emotional and they weren't supposed to use their emotions in their decision. Hello? How is judging someone's behavior an emotional decision?

Jury instructions should include definitions and examples for "emotional decisions" and "deliberation". Two definitions that would have done well for these jurors to have heard and had in writing to refer to in the jury room. It should be on the wall in nice framed posters.

Some of the THs and reporters are saying that the general public needs to calm down and leave these jurors alone. I agree. They did their civic duty and they should be able to go back to live their lives without harassment or threats. However, the ones that do choose to go out and give interviews should not be surprised when they are questioned on how/why they arrived at the decision that they did. So far, I have not yet seen one reporter really ask pertinent questions or point out to any of them how wrong what some of them are saying is - such as when they say there was no motive or cause of death. The reporters just let them say this and then not say a word back or ask them did they not hear they are not to consider that in their deliberations.

The outcome of this trial and some of what these jurors are coming out and
saying makes me even more determined to make sure I do not in any way try to ever get out of jury duty if I am ever called.

My brother once served on a jury that was a capital murder case. He ended up being selected to be the foreman. He told me that once back in the jury room they took an initial vote. All said guilty. Instead of immediately putting their decision on the verdict forms, my brother said they decided to go through all the testimony and evidence to make sure before they finalized their vote. They took 3 days. Then they voted again and the vote was still unanimous. I asked him would you have done the same thing if everyone said Not Guilty. He said yes. He said the state and the defense took the time to present their cases to us for over 3 weeks. The least we owed to both sides was to make sure we gave it the time and attention they all deserved to make the right decision. Too bad he wasn't on this jury.

IMO

BBM.

First, your brother is wonderful. The one time I was selected for jury duty(surprisingly, since I was working in a law firm at the time) made me so proud of the judicial system. We ALL took our duty seriously, and even though we all agreed on our verdict, we literally re-read ALL the testimony. Granted, we weren't sequestered, and that trial took all of 2 days in court and another 1-1/2 days of deliberation! Yes, we took approximately the same amount of time these jurors did to deliberate on a trial that took a teensy, tiny fraction of the amount of time to present to us. But that was many, many years ago. I'm afraid the general public has been changed dramatically since then. :sick:


Secondly, I completely agree with your assessment of the interviews and the lack of hard questions and facts being presented to these jurors. And if I hear one more TH backpedalling on themselves and talking about problems with the prosecution's case I'm going to hurl a brick through my TV. This verdict is most assuredly NOT due to a lack in the State's case, nor due to any lack in LE, IMO.

But, finally, I must disagree about leaving these jurors alone. Note that I most assuredly do NOT want or need to know their names or where they live. But I DO want these jurors -- and the public at large -- to face up to the mind-boggling failure of this jury to give serious heed to their job as jurors and to pay full attention to the instructions and evidence given to them.

I do not know whether they were too lazy or just too stupid, and I don't care. I just know I never, never, never, NEVER, EVER want to have another jury like them hear ANY criminal trial in the U.S.

If there's any good to come of this, it's 1) the attention to crimes against children not being given proper weight in our society up to now; 2) the extremely urgent problem of poor education in the U.S. and the lack of willingness of too many to attend to their jury duty as a requirement for the privilege of U.S. citizenship (whether by birth or by immigration); and 3) the need to closely examine the over-reaching effect of political correctness and reluctance to recognize and JUDGE those people who can and will commit unspeakable horrors against innocents (and in this I'm including not just ICA and CA, but also the entire DT).

Something is horrifyingly broken in our world -- and it needs to be fixed pronto.

Excuse me now while I go throw up - again. :sick:
 
Seemed sincere about what? She didn't testify, she didn't talk. I feel like we're in the twilight zone. "Oh look at the defendant sitting there looking so sincere." So what if she partied like there was no tomorrow for 31 days after her daughter drowned in a pool of duct tape? She looks sincere. And chesty too.

:floorlaugh:
 
Correct.

I am pretty sure that regardless of the truth of the matter, the prosecution did not have witnesses to show a history of neglect or child abuse in order to rebut the Defense's assertion of Casey being a bad mother.

My view, is that is likely that Casey "loved" her daughter, she dotted on her but that she was immature, irresponsible with a lack of foresight and did not understand the responsibility she had as a mother.
I thought Aphrodite Jones made a good point; that KC was "playing at being a mother," because Cindy was more the mother and KC was more the big sister.
 
Well, I hope that they have had a chance to see this program, along with a few others.
And, I hope that this jury also starts to do some looking onto why people are so outraged, and actually see all the real evidence that is out here/there/everywhere on the case.

I wonder what they will be thinking in another week or two.

It just occurred to me when I typed my previous post - if the situation had been a little different - let's say Casey and Caylee's dad were raising Caylee - and one day Caylee disappeared and her whereabouts were unknown for 6 months until her remains were found dumped in the woods, and the FATHER'S car smelled of decomp - the father would get a 2 day trial with one unknown public defender, the jury would deliberate for maybe an hour, and daddy would be on death row before the judge removed his robes for the day.
 
I thought Aphrodite Jones made a good point; that KC was "playing at being a mother," because Cindy was more the mother and KC was more the big sister.

That's exactly what I've thought many times.
 
i just have to add one more thought. This idea of proving motive bugs the everloving heck out of me.

There are people running around out there that do NOT think like the majority of us. I have studied personality disorders and I have LIVED with personality disorders. Psychopaths and sociopaths are the most dangerous of the personality disorders.

"Normal" people (meaning those of us with fully developed brains and consciences) will hopefully never be able to understand what makes these other people tick. "Normal" people will, IMO, hopefully never be able to fathom the motives of these others with no conscience and who do murder.

Not only is motive NOT legally required to convict someone, I hope it never is, because I never want to "understand" a motive of one of those people -- EVER. Their actions are -- by definition -- unfathomable to the rest of us. That's the point as to why they need to be removed from the rest of us, IMO.

Sorry, but I'm just so very, very angry and upset still. Trying to impose "normal" thinking on anyone like ICA is so extremely futile, and it really ticks me off that people want to pretend those kinds of people don't exist.

:banghead: :banghead:

P.S. - Add to my list of those for whom I feel tremendous sympathy Jesse Grund.
 
Correct.

I am pretty sure that regardless of the truth of the matter, the prosecution did not have witnesses to show a history of neglect or child abuse in order to rebut the Defense's assertion of Casey being a bad mother.

My view, is that is likely that Casey "loved" her daughter, she dotted on her but that she was immature, irresponsible with a lack of foresight and did not understand the responsibility she had as a mother.

It would have been a good idea for the prosecution to ask each witness how long they knew Casey.

Most of em would have answered a few weeks to a couple of months. Really not long enough to make a good assessment of whether she's good - or bad.
 
Was he the one she was making goo-goo eyes at during trial? Yeah, go ahead and hit that. You'll be waking up with a choloroform headache and duct tape stuck in your hair.

Thank you for making me laugh out loud (and spitting all over my keyboard)! Every day that we can laugh is one day closer to being over this. We've hung on every detail for 3 years and the outcome was a shock to most all of us. We need to heal for our own mental health and for our families sake.

OK…that being said, I fully expect both Casey and George will be joining Caylee in the not too distant future. It worries me.
 
I thought Aphrodite Jones made a good point; that KC was "playing at being a mother," because Cindy was more the mother and KC was more the big sister.

I have no doubt that Casey put on an act of being a wonderful mother in front of the friends she was trying to impress and those friends fell for it. After all, she seemed so sincere.
 
BBM.

Respectfully snipped

But, finally, I must disagree about leaving these jurors alone. Note that I most assuredly do NOT want or need to know their names or where they live. But I DO want these jurors -- and the public at large -- to face up to the mind-boggling failure of this jury to give serious heed to their job as jurors and to pay full attention to the instructions and evidence given to them.

BBM

I did not mean to leave them alone as far as questioning and trying to understand how they arrived at the verdict. I mean searching them down individually and harassing them to give interviews. For those that do decide to step out on their own, then so be it - fair game. Those that choose not to, then they should not be chased down. That's all I mean by "leave them alone".

I'm all in favor of the general public and the media continuing with discussing and analyzing the jury as a whole and the verdict. In fact, I hope it continues on some more with very detailed commentary about how wrong some of the things that are coming out are as far as how they came to the decision they did. If for no other reason than to educate the future jurors and hopefully these jurors for any time in the future they may be called to server on a jury.

IMO
 
So with this terrible outcome I wonder if there is anything that can be done ? It seems there is a lot of speculation that some of the jurors may have misunderstood the directions on how to deliberate. The joke about txt speech brings a sound point. Of course you can't put in txt speech the rules and directions but what could be done?

The judge gives the orders right then and there in court. How to determine wether or not EVERYONE understands. Of course you will have your foreman, and there is a good chance that there will be a bully on the jury because there is a bully in every mix of people. So how can this be repaired?

There have been many people who have shared their stories here about jury duty. It seems that juries tend to talk about the trial before they are suppose to and that many people want to go home before its time. So... will things change because of this? Are the powers to be paying attention to this?
I watched juror #3's interview, and imo, she would have been the bully. She was full-steam ahead with all her points and didn't need any prompting from the interviewer. Excited utterances all the way. Vehemently.
 
Thank you for making me laugh out loud (and spitting all over my keyboard)! Every day that we can laugh is one day closer to being over this. We've hung on every detail for 3 years and the outcome was a shock to most all of us. We need to heal for our own mental health and for our families sake.

OK…that being said, I fully expect both Casey and George will be joining Caylee in the not too distant future. It worries me.
Anything is possible. I'm sure KC feels omnipotent right now.
 
I just don't know what to think about these jurors that are speaking out saying that the 31 days issue is not a big deal to them. I just can't imagine of any conceivable reason, other than foul play, why a parent would not report a child missing immediately. Not even one day later, I mean IMMEDIATELY. Especially a toddler or young child. It's not just poor behavior or bad decision. Come on! The only exception to this would be perhaps a teenager that just might not have told you where they were going, is late coming home, etc but after calling around all their friends, which doesn't take all that long, then you call authorities right away.

That part, more than anything, just bugs the heck out of me that they didn't seem to think anything was amiss with that part of the case.

IMO
Obviously, they bought into Baez' theory that Caylee was
already dead. That tells me they got into a mind set of which side they were going to go with and never deliberated another view. :banghead:
It may take time, but I believe someday they are going to think about that "other view."
 
Is that something you see every day means....is that something you see every day. Is it not unusual or upsetting to you? There are a number of explanations for the duct tape? Can you give us..oh, let's say 3. Please give us 3 reasonable explanations for why a baby whose body had been left for trash in the woods and not reported missing by her own mother would have duct tape over her nose and mouth.


Agree with you

In addition, Prosecution went to great lengths, IIRC, to establish FOR the jury that under ordinary circumstances, the lower jaw would detach from the upper skull after decomposition. In fact, I think it was stated for the benefit of the jury that without that duct tape, the lower jaw -- when the remains were discovered -- would not have remained in contact with the rest of the skull

However, it seems the jury wasn't too interested in anything the Prosecution had to offer. That jury 'liked' Baez -- liked his crude style -- liked his coarse showmanship -- liked the way the accused looked -- and very probably appreciated the shirts made-to-fit via back-knotting

Should we be surprised. Jury-type people have made Lady Gaga a star. Jury-type people have made smash hits of shows about 'dancing with the stars' -- they've made a success of Facebook and the infantile 'friending', etc.
 
Obviously, they bought into Baez' theory that Caylee was
already dead. That tells me they got into a mind set of which side they were going to go with and never deliberated another view. :banghead:
It may take time, but I believe someday they are going to think about that "other view."


Maybe, maybe not

Perhaps they too will breed and regard the products of their loins to be mere 'pets' -- to be discarded when the novelty wears off and it all becomes too real and inconvenient

I pray they don't breed, considering they were prepared to devote only ten hours to delivering a verdict, followed by 24 hours deliberation to formulate their excuses in order they could get the public on-side enough to warrant networks paying them tens of thousands of dollars
 

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