4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #77

[jepop]

BBM: Calls from KG's phone to her ex. I believe the last of those was reported at being at approx 3amish. MOO...am searching for the relevant reports/LE press conferences if someone doesn't beat me to it.

Oh, and the Door Dash delivery at approx 4am (as per PCA and I am definately assuming that has been confirmed as fact via LE investigation/interview with the driver).MOO

XK's tiktok activity at 4.12am? (per PCA).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bouncing off, RE TOD and MEdical Examiner's findings.
We aren't privy to the autopsy findings re TOD at this point, as far as I'm aware. I don't know much about how that might have been determined and what window the findings might offer. My general understanding doesn't extend beyond the odd bits and pieces from crime shows and specifics related to the odd other case I've had an interest in. I've forgotten those specifics, probably for good reasons...

MOO

Edited to delete sentence in para 1.

ETA: Duh sorry, I just paid proper attention to your post and see you write... "besides digital trails" and I guess most of what I wrote in response pertains to a digital trail but maybe not KG 3amish calls, maybe not assumed interview with doordash driver (though again there is no proof at present to show that DM received the delivery). MOO

Too late to edit, I mean XK not DM in ref to the Door Dash delivery (last ETA paragraph of prior post).

 

[katydid23]

I think we have only a recent news report, with IIRC unidentified source, saying there was an ID belonging to someone "associated with" the house.

That could be: an immediate victim, a roommate survivor, or a friend or family member, IMO.

We also don't know if the ID was taken from the house or not, during the crime or not.

For all we know it was found on the street months before.

All speculation and MOO

But even if an ID from a housemate in that house was supposedly found on the street months before--it would be pretty damning evidence. It might lead some to believe that he targeted one of them. JMO

How would it be possible that he found an ID from one of the housemates or victims, kept it in a box somewhere---then after the murders, police zone in on him because his car matches the getaway car leaving the crime scene? I think that would be a coincidence that the jury would not believe. JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Timeline, ToD. If Prosecutor Does Not Call DM???

IIRC, the 911 call was made at approx. (10-15 min. before) noon and first responders arrived shortly thereafter, and the med. responders pronounced them dead. Later all confirmed deceased by coroner, IIRC.

From time of victims being LAST SEEN (weren't E & X seen at frat party at ___ o'clock, and K & M reported last seen by driver, who picked them up at Grub Truck & dropped at 1122 King at ___ o'clock???)
One or all may have left DIGITAL TRACKS (email, phone, DD order, etc.) TENDING to prove still living. But def. team may attack.

Aside from those digital trails, what EVD could the state use to BOOK-END the ToDs, thus the murders, that is, to show they were still alive at, say, approx. 4 a.m.?
Is it crucial for state to show they were still alive AFTER the ^ LAST SEEN times? Maybe not, IDK.
Sorry for all the IIRCs, but hazy on these details.

If Xana ate just before she died, ToD may be determined by digestion cycle. But I agree that what's been released about ToD is anything but clear, IMO.

 

[Dotta]

But even if an ID from a housemate in that house was supposedly found on the street months before--it would be pretty damning evidence. It might lead some to believe that he targeted one of them. JMO

How would it be possible that he found an ID from one of the housemates or victims, kept it in a box somewhere---then after the murders, police zone in on him because his car matches the getaway car leaving the crime scene? I think that would be a coincidence that the jury would not believe. JMO

Isn't it a normal practice to hand a found ID/document to the person or Police or University?

Instead of keeping it

JMO

 

[Montecore1]

Agreed, set the timer on your phone for 90 seconds, it's longer than we realize.

I see what ya mean, however setting a timer to 90 seconds then just watching and waiting for it to end certainly seems like an eternity, like waiting for a stop light to change when you're in hurry or your popcorn to finish in the microwave oven before the commercial ends for your movie.
But I would argue setting a timer to 90 seconds then trying to complete an arduous and difficult task before it ends, especially if its something that you have never done before is completely different, then the old expression "time flies" comes into play.
To me its the same for the 17 minute window from 'a moving car to entering a house, killing four people to being back in the car moving down the road' that is alleged. MOO IME

 

[Justice101]

But even if an ID from a housemate in that house was supposedly found on the street months before--it would be pretty damning evidence. It might lead some to believe that he targeted one of them. JMO

How would it be possible that he found an ID from one of the housemates or victims, kept it in a box somewhere---then after the murders, police zone in on him because his car matches the getaway car leaving the crime scene? I think that would be a coincidence that the jury would not believe. JMO

IMHO, the evidence that the prosecution probably has at this point is probably OVERWHELMING.

 

[Boxer]

Isn't it a normal practice to hand a found ID/document to the person or Police or University?

Instead of keeping it

JMO

Yes, that's what people nornally do.
Keeping it in a glove in a box sounds like hiding it from parents.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I see what ya mean, however setting a timer to 90 seconds then just watching and waiting for it to end certainly seems like an eternity, like waiting for a stop light to change when you're in hurry or your popcorn to finish in the microwave oven before the commercial ends for your movie.
But I would argue setting a timer to 90 seconds then trying to complete an arduous and difficult task before it ends, especially if its something that you have never done before is completely different, then the old expression "time flies" comes into play.
To me its the same for the 17 minute window from 'a moving car to entering a house, killing four people to being back in the car moving down the road' that is alleged. MOO IME

Hah, maybe I just move faster

 

[10ofRods]

BBM

He did leave the scene hastily. I don't think he'd have time to remove it.

It's hard to imagine someone killing 4 people without getting blood on themselves so it's easy to see why some may think BK wore something over his clothing. A coverall makes sense plus there's a receipt for a Dickies item from Walmart (there's also the list of other clothing items that were seized).

It's possible he just took the gloves off and put them in a pocket especially if he'd already gotten victim blood on his clothes. Not to mention the knife. He had to have used something to either clean it or keep it from touching the interior of the car.

I'm thinking he might have had the interior of the car prepared beforehand.

Do you mean scratches from victims, scratches from the knife or both? Hopefully both happened!

Thank you (and everyone else) for responding to my post yesterday. @Boxer estimated 90 seconds IF he did have to do a wardrobe change.

I was initially a "he came to kill as many people as he could" type of speculator, but now I'm on the fence. And I agree that if he came only to terrorize or kill one person, he would not have been as prepared for the bloody aftermath as if he originally thought he was just going to harm one person.

As to the scratches - I meant either or both. Of course I think he had his arms covered, but it seems more and more likely that he was wearing nitrile gloves, not some kind of heavy glove (which would have made wielding the knife more difficult - but who knows? maybe he did wear heavy gloves). Scratches on his hands are possible.

It would be really risky to put the murder weapon inside a plastic bag or a duffle without its sheath, so he had another thing to contend with (wrapping the knife up sufficiently to keep it from poking holes in whatever he put the evidence into).

I just keep thinking that somewhere along this set of events, he made some mistakes. I hope he made many.

 

[jepop]

I see what ya mean, however setting a timer to 90 seconds then just watching and waiting for it to end certainly seems like an eternity, like waiting for a stop light to change when you're in hurry or your popcorn to finish in the microwave oven before the commercial ends for your movie.
But I would argue setting a timer to 90 seconds then trying to complete an arduous and difficult task before it ends, especially if its something that you have never done before is completely different, then the old expression "time flies" comes into play.
To me its the same for the 17 minute window from 'a moving car to entering a house, killing four people to being back in the car moving down the road' that is alleged. MOO IME

RSBBM:Below are simply ideas, but I think it is certainly possible that the alleged killers' capability to rapidly carry out murderous acts (and the emotional state required) could differ from his capability to act in a calm and pre-planned manner upon exiting the house after the crime. It's hard when mindset and emotional state are factored in and ofcourse, this has to come in the form of speculation. MOO

The way I look at the possibilities is that 15 -17 mins is time a plenty for a killer who is committed to and desperate to carry out a long planned attack that night and has been frustrated and on the chosen night driven past twice potentially waiting for lights out. And then being further hampered trying to find a park (per PCA). Desperate to get in there, maybe coldly rageful. The size of the weopen and it's potential to inflict massive harm has been discussed previously here. If the alleged killer went upstairs first and murdered the two girls there in MM's bed then I really don't think that would have taken much time at all. It is awful to contemplate but with a killer determined to follow through I can imagine how very possible it is. Then down the stairs, perhaps unexpectedly meeting some resistance in XK's room but nonetheless following through/'succeeding'. But then, having never done such a thing before and unable to predict the impact on his self and his mental state, the killer becomes determined to just get out. So walking, outwardly calm, past DM, perhaps not even registering her presence and to the car...perhaps reaction starts to set in here in a physical sense too and the urgency to leave the scene is felt intensely. Perhaps scared re 911 being called, scared of being seen, scared of the approaching first strands of pre dawn light. So yes, immediately post the acts, the killer could have been in a state where changing/stripping off clothes in a controlled and pre-planned manner at his car at the scene, may not have been possible in 90 seconds (or at all). When I imagine the aftermath from this POV, I imagine that first priority would be to leave the scene ASAP. If that was the case then he may have pulled off road once he was away and felt calmer and done the stripping off then. And maybe realised the sheath was missing then too. MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

IMHO, the evidence that the prosecution probably has at this point is probably OVERWHELMING.

Very very overwhelming. We know this because the defense needs 6 months to specifically go over the evidence.

Just for starters the prosecution has already turned over 1,000 pages of documents, nearly 2,000 images, and a video. I'm sure by now they have turned over more videos - probably of the car being spotted amongst others. And probably other evidence has been turned over as well by now because it's now months later.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

RSBBM:Below are simply ideas, but I think it is certainly possible that the alleged killers' capability to rapidly carry out murderous acts (and the emotional state required) could differ from his capability to act in a calm and pre-planned manner upon exiting the house after the crime. It's hard when mindset and emotional state are factored in and ofcourse, this has to come in the form of speculation. MOO

The way I look at the possibilities is that 15 -17 mins is time a plenty for a killer who is committed to and desperate to carry out a long planned attack that night and has been frustrated and on the chosen night driven past twice potentially waiting for lights out. And then being further hampered trying to find a park (per PCA). Desperate to get in there, maybe coldly rageful. The size of the weopen and it's potential to inflict massive harm has been discussed previously here. If the alleged killer went upstairs first and murdered the two girls there in MM's bed then I really don't think that would have taken much time at all. It is awful to contemplate but with a killer determined to follow through I can imagine how very possible it is. Then down the stairs, perhaps unexpectedly meeting some resistance in XK's room but nonetheless following through/'succeeding'. But then, having never done such a thing before and unable to predict the impact on his self and his mental state, the killer becomes determined to just get out. So walking, outwardly calm, past DM, perhaps not even registering her presence and to the car...perhaps reaction starts to set in here in a physical sense too and the urgency to leave the scene is felt intensely. Perhaps scared re 911 being called, scared of being seen, scared of the approaching first strands of pre dawn light. So yes, immediately post the acts, the killer could have been in a state where changing/stripping off clothes in a controlled and pre-planned manner at his car at the scene, may not have been possible in 90 seconds (or at all). When I imagine the aftermath from this POV, I imagine that first priority would be to leave the scene ASAP. If that was the case then he may have pulled off road once he was away and felt calmer and done the stripping off then. And maybe realised the sheath was missing then too. MOO

Then the car evidence will be crucial since it should have been bloody.

 

[NyxNY]

Hah, maybe I just move faster

Stealth-like moves says a girl has no name (sorry, had to)

 

[CLGM]

So what if we look at this from a different angle while we wait for each breadcrumb to fall between now and June- for you long term super-sleuthers especially, can you think of a more recent case similar to this where

• a suspect is zeroed in on by LE (moo my own characterization),
• arrested in extremely high profile and costly way,
• scrutinized intensely by public/media/social media

but the investigation ended up going in a completely different direction and another person being arrested/convicted?

 

[maskedwoman]

Then the car evidence will be crucial since it should have been bloody.

I certainly might have been bloody but he must have been able to clean it enough that he didn't mind letting his Dad in the car. They are not a family of means, and a car is a big asset. I think his father would have been shocked by the condition of the car if it was obviously and badly stained. I mean a spot or two you can chalk up to a drive through accident. More than that, I don't know. MOOooo

ETA my MOOooo

 

[Dotta]

I certainly might have been bloody but he must have been able to clean it enough that he didn't mind letting his Dad in the car. They are not a family of means, and a car is a big asset. I think his father would have been shocked by the condition of the car if it was obviously and badly stained. I mean a spot or two you can chalk up to a drive through accident. More than that, I don't know. MOOooo

ETA my MOOooo

I guess all evidence is "latent".

 

[Cool Cats]

So what if we look at this from a different angle while we wait for each breadcrumb to fall between now and June- for you long term super-sleuthers especially, can you think of a more recent case similar to this where

• a suspect is zeroed in on by LE (moo my own characterization),
• arrested in extremely high profile and costly way,
• scrutinized intensely by public/media/social media

but the investigation ended up going in a completely different direction and another person being arrested/convicted?

Never say never, I'm sure there are some cases out there that fit your description.
I do not think the Bryan Kohberger case will be one of them.

What happens - rarely - is a not guilty verdict - but rare. Casey Anthony, OJ Simpson.
The prosecution, in cases like these, doesn't think anyone else did the crimes. They think the guilty parties got off.

With Kohberger, they don't just have one car video, they have multiple car videos. They don't just have one time his phone pinged on the King Rd cell tower, they have multiple times.

11 of those times that his phone pinged on the King Rd cell tower it was late night/early morning hours, akin to the time of the murders.

Students claim to have seen him on the University of Idaho campus in some of the buildings, staring at them, but it is doubtful those same buildings would be open late at night and into the early morning hours.

Kohberger's attorney will be hard pressed to show what Bryan was doing 11 times in the Moscow area late at night, apparently before and after midnight.

Also, the night of the murders, not only was a car caught on video in Moscow fitting the description of Bryan's car, but this car had no front license plate. Cars in Idaho and Washington require front license plates. Bryan's car was registered in Pennsylvania and Pennsylvania doesn't require front license plates.

30 States require front license plates. Add this to the pile of circumstantial evidence.

Which States Require a Front License Plate?

States differ in their license plate laws and regulations, some states allow a single license plate while others require two. This article explains reasonings for both.

www.autolist.com

 

[gliving]

So what if we look at this from a different angle while we wait for each breadcrumb to fall between now and June- for you long term super-sleuthers especially, can you think of a more recent case similar to this where

• a suspect is zeroed in on by LE (moo my own characterization),
• arrested in extremely high profile and costly way,
• scrutinized intensely by public/media/social media

but the investigation ended up going in a completely different direction and another person being arrested/convicted?

Richard Ricci:

Kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Boxer]

I believe it's "ID cards" inside glove inside box. The handwriting is really bad. I noticed looking at other words that they make their a's look like u's, for one thing.

View attachment 413892

Just thinking, if I was a victim how grateful I would be for police work like this.

No matter the trial outcome, if the ID belongs to one of the victims, at least they would have retrieved my ID from being hidden in a glove, in a box, in a room in a house where my alleged murdrer was free to contemplate it whenever he wanted to revisit my demise.

 

[Cool Cats]

Just thinking, if I was a victim how grateful I would be for police work like this.

No matter the trial outcome, if the ID belongs to one of the victims, at least they would have retrieved my ID from being hidden in a glove, in a box, in a room in a house where my alleged murdrer was free to contemplate it whenever he wanted to revisit my demise.

Interesting.

Sounds like it could be a "trophy."

Keeping a piece of the murder: Eerie 'trophies' collected by serial killers

Some serial killers have kept trophies of their murders. Here are the stories of some killers, the items they kept and why some experts believe some need memories of their actions.

www.frontpagedetectives.com