4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

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Is it possible that the prosecution believes that the defense is fishing, and wants a copy of the entire grand jury transcript to see if she is able to find something that would help BK's case. Sounds to me like the prosecution is wanting the defense to be more specific and let them know what she is looking for and then they would be more likely to voluntarily comply with her request. From what I have read online about requests to see grand jury transcripts by attorneys, it sounded to me like judges want these requests to be focused and targeted, not just a request to get a copy of the transcript for the entire grand jury proceedings.

Maybe I'm wrong, so please correct me if that is not the case.

Per the court documents posted above with cited Idaho legal codes, the defense is entitled to this information. AT also gave plenty of reasons for them, none of which sounded to me like a fishing expedition. I don't believe the prosecution genuinely thinks that AT would sign her name to a sworn affidavit saying something that she knows is untrue. I don't always agree with nor understand defense attorneys and how they do what they do, but I do believe the vast majority have integrity and adhere to professional standards.

MOO.
 
Ellington case may give us a glimpse of Anne Taylor's style. I'm wondering if Anne Taylor is using the same strategies she used as a member of the defense in the JONATHAN ELLINGTON road rage murder trial. Ellington was on trial, not GJ. How and what the jury saw and heard played a part in AT's defense.

Highlights from Ellington defense motions (again AT was on D team): a BIASED JURY.
Ellington FAILED To Demonstrate That His Due Process Rights Were Violated By The Voir Dire Process Of Excusing Jurors. D claimed: Biased Jury bc 3 jurors questioned in VOIR DIRE believed defendant to be guilty.
Ellington's argues that "his right to an unbiased jury was violated when 3 prospective jurors tainted the entire panel of prospective jurors by expressing their pre-conceived views" that Ellington was guilty of the charged offenses. Lots of press similar to BK. If Defense is going for a biased grand jury, they could use the Truescope/Gag Hearing report again, a twofer.

FAILED in Ellington: Use of accusatory word and phrases. D also contends prosecutorial misconduct claiming that the prosecutor sought to inflame the passions and prejudices of the jury by use of words (homicide), phrases (ran over wife). Defense: "[A]ppeals to emotion, passion or prejudice of the jury through use of inflammatory tactics are impermissible.”

USE of PATHOLOGIST. The Prosecutor Did Not Engage In Misconduct By Offering The Testimony Of The Pathologist--D tried to get pathologist report thrown out / stated it was "just testimony about-- injuries" and, therefore, would be cumulative and irrelevant. D FAILED

Again Ellington but similar to "BK knows": the State recently disclosed a report from a cell phone company indicating information that may be exculpatory in nature and the Defense needs time to follow up.

IMO D is going to use a lot of motions to dismiss GJ indictment based on what evidence was used, how it was presented to GJ. Most won't be granted as in the Ellington case, but they only need one to work, as in Elllington. JMO

Added: If BK KNOWS there is exculpatory information, he probably planted it. MOO

"The Idaho Supreme Court overturned an initial conviction and allowed a new jury trial, citing perjury by a prosecution witness and prosecutorial misconduct. The previous trial was in 2006." Ellington 2nd trial resulted in guilty verdict.
The judge who heard the Ellington case on appeal by Anne Taylor agreed with the perjury charge against the LE officer who testified, and he also agreed with the charge of prosecutorial misconduct. In the long run, though, Ellington was found guilty at his new trial, so in the long run she only gained more time for Ellington before he was ultlimately found guilty.

She also was able to find a witness who brought an entirely new perspective to the scene of the road range incident, testifying that one or more family members may have played a role in Ellington's road rage. It would have inflamed the jury, IMO, if Anne Taylor had introduced this information herself, instead she had a witness on the stand who testified against the family.
 
I keep thinking about this: If BK KNOWS there is exculpatory information, then what is it? I want to list the alleged known evidence against him:

1. his DNA on the knife sheath snap
2. a white Elantra circling the scene of the crime with no proof it was his license plate or that he was driving it apparently. 3. His white Elantra which may or may not contain evidence.
4. his cellphone allegedly traveling towards Moscow in the right timeframe and then being shut off or put in airplane mode before it was over there.
5. an ID belonging to someone who lived at 1122 King Rd at his parents house.
6. DM saw a man about 5'10 wearing black and a mask over his lower face with bushy eyebrows
7. Wearing gloves in Pennsylvania and putting his trash in baggies and then in the neighbor's trash bin in the middle of the night.
8. Trying to contact women at 1122 King Rd via social media more than once

#2: If they're aware police were originally supposedly looking for a Sentra, then maybe they're viewing that as exculpatory.
#3: if his Elantra did not contain any DNA of the victims or evidence of blood, perhaps they're viewing that as exculpatory.
#5: We don't know this is true. There have been conflicting reports about it in MSM with no LE confirmation of either.
#7: If this was not new behavior (as it is in-line with OCD-type behavior), then maybe they're viewing that as exculpatory.
#8: see #5.

Not saying any of those things is exculpatory; just saying maybe that's what they're considering exculpatory. I don't think there's going to be some huge reveal, IMO. I think the same evidence we all know about or new evidence along those lines is going to be what they're considering exculpatory for some reason that won't be revealed to the public until trial.

I didn't put the latent shoe print because LE has not said it was BK's or even that it is the size shoe he wears. We know BK wears a size 13 shoe because that is what he had on when arrested in PA.

Have I left anything else out in terms of the alleged KNOWN evidence against him?

Perhaps BK doesn't own Vans and they're considering that exculpatory.
 
Ellington case may give us a glimpse of Anne Taylor's style. I'm wondering if Anne Taylor is using the same strategies she used as a member of the defense in the JONATHAN ELLINGTON road rage murder trial. Ellington was on trial, not GJ. How and what the jury saw and heard played a part in AT's defense.

Highlights from Ellington defense motions (again AT was on D team): a BIASED JURY.
Ellington FAILED To Demonstrate That His Due Process Rights Were Violated By The Voir Dire Process Of Excusing Jurors. D claimed: Biased Jury bc 3 jurors questioned in VOIR DIRE believed defendant to be guilty.
Ellington's argues that "his right to an unbiased jury was violated when 3 prospective jurors tainted the entire panel of prospective jurors by expressing their pre-conceived views" that Ellington was guilty of the charged offenses. Lots of press similar to BK. If Defense is going for a biased grand jury, they could use the Truescope/Gag Hearing report again, a twofer.

FAILED in Ellington: Use of accusatory word and phrases. D also contends prosecutorial misconduct claiming that the prosecutor sought to inflame the passions and prejudices of the jury by use of words (homicide), phrases (ran over wife). Defense: "[A]ppeals to emotion, passion or prejudice of the jury through use of inflammatory tactics are impermissible.”

USE of PATHOLOGIST. The Prosecutor Did Not Engage In Misconduct By Offering The Testimony Of The Pathologist--D tried to get pathologist report thrown out / stated it was "just testimony about-- injuries" and, therefore, would be cumulative and irrelevant. D FAILED

Again Ellington but similar to "BK knows": the State recently disclosed a report from a cell phone company indicating information that may be exculpatory in nature and the Defense needs time to follow up.

IMO D is going to use a lot of motions to dismiss GJ indictment based on what evidence was used, how it was presented to GJ. Most won't be granted as in the Ellington case, but they only need one to work, as in Elllington. JMO

Added: If BK KNOWS there is exculpatory information, he probably planted it. MOO

"The Idaho Supreme Court overturned an initial conviction and allowed a new jury trial, citing perjury by a prosecution witness and prosecutorial misconduct. The previous trial was in 2006." Ellington 2nd trial resulted in guilty verdict.
Thank you @I'm Nobody. That's really fascinating reading. Thank you for sharing.
 
Kaylee's beautiful journal was shared by her sister Autumn Goncalves on Instagram.
Kaylee's thoughts, hopes and dreams starting a new job, a new life, in a new place.
Worth a read. It's just 2 pages. WARNING: Tissue alert.

"Things I value........Goals............"

Arrow right at the link picture for journal.

edit: Sorry if this was shared already; did a search and couldn't find it
 
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I keep thinking about this: If BK KNOWS there is exculpatory information, then what is it? I want to list the alleged known evidence against him:

1. his DNA on the knife sheath snap
2. a white Elantra circling the scene of the crime with no proof it was his license plate or that he was driving it apparently. 3. His white Elantra which may or may not contain evidence.
4. his cellphone allegedly traveling towards Moscow in the right timeframe and then being shut off or put in airplane mode before it was over there.
5. an ID belonging to someone who lived at 1122 King Rd at his parents house.
6. DM saw a man about 5'10 wearing black and a mask over his lower face with bushy eyebrows
7. Wearing gloves in Pennsylvania and putting his trash in baggies and then in the neighbor's trash bin in the middle of the night.
8. Trying to contact women at 1122 King Rd via social media more than once

I didn't put the latent shoe print because LE has not said it was BK's or even that it is the size shoe he wears. We know BK wears a size 13 shoe because that is what he had on when arrested in PA.

Have I left anything else out in terms of the alleged KNOWN evidence against him?
That is what is known to the public. But by now there is likely to be more and a lot more detail to the evidence we do know about. Personally I'm not considering BK bagging trash in PA as evidence and also don't think we have had anything officially released (yet) re electronic evidence of BK following/stalking victims online (again, not that we know of but does not at all mean no such evidence exists, Non -dissem order is in place). Ditto for ID found at PA house that may belong to a victim ( unconfirmed/unknown Imo). Those items should be left off the list for the same reason you leave off the shoe print, Imoo.

But on my list the shoe print would be there but not yet your items 5,7 and 8! .

I think the the exculpatory refs could be related to items in D's motion to compel? There's meant to be a hearing re Motion to compel on 27th June, Imo. In the interim we have the motion and the State's response. They're amongst the Court docs and were discussed at length on previous threads. With regard to the points raised by the D, the State noted it continues to provide reports and all available items. The D itself says the discovery has been "voluminous" I believe. RE the two broad references to items exculpatory "on information and belief" the state asked the D to assist by specifying/clarifying, so they could look for relevant reports Imo. Imo D would be expected to offer that clarification at June 27th hearing, unless JJJ grants a stay to proceedings before then. But maybe that's not feasible by that date so motion hearing may still go ahead. Moo - but see court docs dated mid May, just prior to GJ arraignment hearing.
 
Imo, it relates to those references to exculpatory based on "information and belief" as set out in Ds Motion to Compel. The State has responded asking the D for clarification of what they are after and the hearing for that is set for June 27th, Imo. Seems the D are saying they want to see if this exculpatory evidence "based on information and belief" was set before the GJ. The problem as I see it, the possible tactic (INAL), is that up to this point, at least in terms of the documents released by the Court, the D has not yet specified what they actually mean, what this evidence might consist of. Moo
I agree.

IMOO, in all the murder cases I've followed, which obviously doesn't make me any kind of expert, just a WS member sharing my perspectives based on my experiences here:

I don't think I've ever seen a more limp noodle-ish throw-spaghetti-at-the-wall-and-see-what sticks subtext basis for exculpatory anything from the defense, than "information and belief" in something they think "Is In There", like the Prego spaghetti sauce commercials, which doesn't come with an alibi side salad, at this point in the 7 course meal that is being prepared, anyway. ;)

Food puns aside, it totally depends on what the info and beliefs are the defense is referring to, and where that may lead.

I look forward to hearing about it, if BK believes there is info that will be "triple E": Exculpatory Exonerating Evidence.

MOO
 
Pullman is relatively small. Unless he was somewhere truly unremarkable…giving his lawyers a list of places where he may have been or regularly went doesn’t seem like a stretch.

Then his lawyers could canvas those areas for the times before and after to see if there was any recorded evidence of his presence there that LE may have missed.

“I don’t know” and not having any supporting evidence of not being home is not going to go down well with jurors. At that point you probably shouldn’t present any defense at all.
"I don't know" may not be the final word on the subject. That's why BK's attorneys have asked for more time.

For all I know BK may have been night jogging in the Arboretum and the defense is hoping to find confirmation in surveillance videos from the area.

As even Google points out, a Notice of Alibi has to include supporting evidence. It isn't just a matter of claiming, "I was at the library."
 
States response to Motion for exception/extension Alibi demand:

Balancing the above, the State has no objection to reasonable extension oftime for the defense to comply with its obligations under ldaho Code §l9-Sl9 with the understanding and expectation that the State will likewise have reasonable period of time to respond to any proffered Notice of Alibi and with the additional understanding that any defense compliance with Idaho Code §l9-519 occur by July 24, 2023

RBBM

All of the recent motions are stall tactics by the Defense in an effort to find some loophole for a BK defense. If he had a substantive alibi, he wouldn't be sitting in jail at this very moment.

I'm not surprised or concerned by these, just because they intend to challenge the GJ doesn't mean they can win a dismissal. In fact, I think it's highly unlikely they will.

The State has the goods on BK, we just aren't privy to them yet.

ALL MOO
 
RBBM

All of the recent motions are stall tactics by the Defense in an effort to find some loophole for a BK defense. If he had a substantive alibi, he wouldn't be sitting in jail at this very moment.

I'm not surprised or concerned by these, just because they intend to challenge the GJ doesn't mean they can win a dismissal. In fact, I think it's highly unlikely they will.

The State has the goods on BK, we just aren't privy to them yet.

ALL MOO
could not agree more!
 
RBBM

All of the recent motions are stall tactics by the Defense in an effort to find some loophole for a BK defense. If he had a substantive alibi, he wouldn't be sitting in jail at this very moment.

I'm not surprised or concerned by these, just because they intend to challenge the GJ doesn't mean they can win a dismissal. In fact, I think it's highly unlikely they will.

The State has the goods on BK, we just aren't privy to them yet.

ALL MOO
I would be surprised if they did win a dismissal.
I do not share the idea that "If he had a substantive alibi, he wouldn't be sitting in jail at this very moment."
There has been an unbelievably huge amount of pretrial publicity prior to seating the GJ. Thinking back to the D's two recent witnesses on the amount of media exposure and on bias and how any exposure to media can create bias, even subconsciuously. MOO
The D is privy to much more information than is out in the public realm. I believe that AT clearly stated what the D believes in her conclusion. MOO

From the Defendants reply: Conclusion

A grand jury was empaneled at time when the small community of Moscow, Idaho had been exposed to months of intense local, national, and international media coverage. Because the State has provided extensive discovery, Mr. Kohberger knows that exculpatory evidence exists. Whether fair and impartial panel of grand jurors was assembled amidst intense media coverage is significant question the Defense must evaluate. See I.C.R.6.7 and l.C 19-1003 and State v. Roberts, 188 P. 895, 897 (1920.) Whether inadmissible or exculpatory evidence was presented to the grand jury is significant question the defense must evaluate. See l.C.R. 6.2(a), 6.6 and l.C. §19-1107. And, while there are many other legal arguments Mr. Kohberger may pursue related to the grand jury proceedings, how the grand jury was selected and what evidence was presented, illustrate good cause for the Defense’s need for all materials set forth in its motion.

Re: IF the exculpatory evidence is substantial and it was not presented to the GJ.

Dept of Justice:

9-11.233 - PRESENTATION OF EXCULPATORY EVIDENCE​

In United States v. Williams, 112 S.Ct. 1735 (1992), the Supreme Court held that the Federal courts' supervisory powers over the grand jury did not include the power to make a rule allowing the dismissal of an otherwise valid indictment where the prosecutor failed to introduce substantial exculpatory evidence to a grand jury. It is the policy of the Department of Justice, however, that when a prosecutor conducting a grand jury inquiry is personally aware of substantial evidence that directly negates the guilt of a subject of the investigation, the prosecutor must present or otherwise disclose such evidence to the grand jury before seeking an indictment against such a person. While a failure to follow the Department's policy should not result in dismissal of an indictment, appellate courts may refer violations of the policy to the Office of Professional Responsibility for review.

Even if there is substantial exculpatory evidence that was not presented to the GJ and that discovery fails to result in a dismissal, it will still make the public aware (eventually) of how the case against BK has been handled. MOO

TImeline of events regarding Indictment to request of GJ proceedings
From the motion to Stay:

PROCEDURAL BACKGROUND Mr. Kohberger was indicted by grand jury on May l6, 2023. He filed “Motion to Make Available the Record of all Proceedings of the Grand Jury Pursuant to l.CR. 6.2” and MOTION TO STAY PROCEEDINGS Page STATE OF IDAHO Plaintiff, V. BRYAN C. KOHBERGER, Defendant. “Motion Requesting Release of Grand Jury Materials under Qualified Protective Order” on May l9, 2023. The State then filed their “State’s Response to Defendant’s Motions Regarding Grand Jury Record and Transcript” and proposed order on May 30, 2023. The parties are not able to reach agreement regarding the release of grand jury materials. [n further opposition of Mr. Kohberger’s motion for the preparation of grand jury records, on June 6, 2023, the State filed their “State’s Supplemental Response to Defendant’s Motions Regarding Grand Jury Record and Transcript”. hearing is scheduled for June 26, 2023, to argue this contested matter. Mr. Kohberger stood silent at his initial arraignment to preserve his right to contest the indictment. He also asserted his right to speedy trial pursuant to the United States and Idaho Constitutions. Jury trial is scheduled to begin October 2, 2023. Time is of the essence.

ARGUMENT By the time this Court hears argument on the preparation of the grand jury proceedings, almost six weeks will have passed from the time of the indictment. Preparation of the grand jury record will then take additional time. Mr. Kohberger has the right and intends to contest the indictment. ldaho Code 2-213 (l) allows the defense to seek stay of proceedings: [w]ithin seven (7) days afier the moving party discovers or by the exercise of diligence could have discovered the grounds therefor, and in any event before the trial jury is sworn to try the case, party may move to stay the proceedings, and in criminal case to quash the indictment, or for other appropriate relief, on the ground of substantial failure to comply with this chapter in selecting the grand or trial jury. Mr. Kohberger seeks to stay the proceedings as appropriate relief while the matter of the grand jury record is argued and prepared. He is exercising due diligence to discover the grounds upon which to file motion to dismiss related to how the grand jury was selected.‘ He is being delayed through no fault of his own.

Wondering if the Delay in getting the GJ transcript is considered to violate the Fifth/Fourteenth and Sixth Amendments? MOO

The wait for the hearing on the Motion to Compel is a long time too IMO. Motion to Compel was filed 5/4 and the hearing is set for 6/27.

IMO this prosecution is not acting like they have "the goods" against BK. I believe that the Grand Jury route was chosen because the prosecution was having difficulty with the preliminary hearing hurdle. MOO
And, I don't believe the Defense is stalling.
JMO/MOO
 
Wow.

Statement In the Argument:

Mr. Kohberger knows that exculpatory evidence exists.

<snipped for focus>
Is that really as momentous as it sounds? Our attorney's have a better idea than me, but the sentence begins with "Because the state has provided extensive discovery". I would be surprised if 52TB of information didn't include something that could be construed as exculpatory. It could be something as minor as LE checking the background of the owner of another Elantra, or as big as they have evidence of someone else stalking the house.

EBM to delete one word
 
Is that really as momentous as it sounds? Our attorney's probably have a better idea than me, but the sentence begins with "Because the state has provided extensive discovery". I would be surprised if 52TB of information didn't include something that could be construed as exculpatory. It could be something as minor as LE checking the background of the owner of another Elantra, or as big as they have evidence of someone else stalking the house.
To me, that statement means that the D found something exculpatory in discovery.
Whether it is substantial or minor, only the Prosecution and Defense know at this point.
Still, it does give the D an avenue to investigate regarding the GJ proceedings.
MOO/IANAL
 
I had a go with the 'I was at home asleep alibi' a few pages back. The first problem I was seeing, is the video footage and coinciding phone pings that put him in South Pullman between 2.44 and 2.53. Then the phone pings and video footage that place him near Blaine on highway 95 at 4.50ish and pinging back to Pullman, to again have his pings and video capture of his vehicle coinciding multiple times between 1300 Johnson Road and up Stadium Way as far as Cougar Ave/Street. This complicates the at home sleeping alibi somewhat, Imo.

It would need to involve having video footage or witnesses for his return to appartment from Nevada Street at around ten minutes to three. Then that he awoke and left at whatever time (maybe 4.10-4.15am) so as to be travelling on 95 near Blaine 15 mins south of Moscow at approx 4.50am. On top of that, if it's not a matter of phone battery running out, it may appear odd to a jury that he turned his phone off when out in South Pullman at c2.50am, returned to his appartment, went to sleep, left again at 4.20ish, took his phone but kept it off and travelled south of Moscow to near Blaine before switching on.Moo

However, this alibi might be corroborated if he left Pullman at c4.15-4.20am via Stadium Way as there are plenty of cameras there that recorded his return journey at 5.30ish. However, my feeling is that his elantra was not picked up by Stadium Way cameras leaving Pullman at c4.15am and heading to Moscow (that is a solid alibi that would have probably eliminated him as suspect and I believe LE would have done due diligence with all vide footage from Stadium Way-Moo). It seems to me this alibi would have to involve him travelling via some back route to leave Pullman and hope for a back street camera to have captured him (and again, I feel that this has already been addressed by LE in the service of due diligence). So in summary, sleeping at home alibi might be tricky. Moo

What about, 'I went out to buy some form of illegal substance from a guy who is often hanging around 'x' location. I don't know his name or identity or anything about him but often if I drive around a while, he's stood on the street there dealing'?

Or, 'I went out kerb crawling for a street sex worker and then had a brief encounter on a side street'?

How do those sort of scenarios pan out? Obv none would explain any forensic evidence and the DNA on the sheath but in terms of quite why someone would be skulking around the streets driving around in the small hours they could pass maybe?
 
What about, 'I went out to buy some form of illegal substance from a guy who is often hanging around 'x' location. I don't know his name or identity or anything about him but often if I drive around a while, he's stood on the street there dealing'?

Or, 'I went out kerb crawling for a street sex worker and then had a brief encounter on a side street'?

How do those sort of scenarios pan out? Obv none would explain any forensic evidence and the DNA on the sheath but in terms of quite why someone would be skulking around the streets driving around in the small hours they could pass maybe?
the good ol' "Ill just admit to a lesser crime so it sounds more legit" alibi. and then when LE asks for proof of that lesser crime suspects can rarely ever provide it.

will go down just as well as other pseudo unprovable alibis like "i went for a walk but no one saw me" or "i was asleep in my house" or "i don't remember"

our death row and prisons are filled with people (in denial) who used those alibis in the face of overwhelming evidence.

MOO
 
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Is it possible BK, if guilty, was extremely high and flying on some form of illegal substance that could be known for giving mighty strength and fearlessness when under the influence? I have heard accounts of people being seen to perform inexplicable superhuman feats of violence when taking stuff like methamphetamine. Is this type of thinking even in the equation?

What drug screening aside from a regular prison admission pee test would BK have been subjected to? Hair strand or fat tissue or analysis? Or none?
 
the good ol' "Ill just admit to a lesser crime so it sounds more legit" alibi. and then when LE asks for proof of that lesser crime suspects can rarely ever provide it.

will go down just as well as other pseudo unprovable alibis like "i went for a walk but no one saw me" or "i was asleep in my house" or "i don't remember"

our death row and prisons are filled with people (in denial) who used those alibis in the face of overwhelming evidence.

MOO

Well true, if he was going to go down that route, he may well have said a more benign excuse such as I was driving around giving sandwiches to the homeless or something.
 
IMO, the D is focusing on multiple angles, not just media coverage.
The D is not vague in the first two items on their list.
Only the third about errors says "may."
JMO

Statement in D Conclusion:

Although good cause is not required, it exists because grandjury was empaneled after months of intense media coverage in small community, exculpatory evidence exists, and there may be single error or cumulative errors which require the examination of the entire grand jury record.



JMO
That is why my post said 'could have', not did.

If you look at the boilerplate ways to contest a GJ indictment, this Defense is following them almost to the letter. I'm not worried.

MOO
 
Yeah, the notion is still kind of distasteful to me, to think of this case losing steam if there are endless delays.

Though I do appreciate there could be some positives involved as you've mentioned.

I just don't want the families to lose hope, or the prosecution to lose any footing, if it takes years to get to trial, get through the trial, and get a conviction, if BK is guilty that is.

JMO.
I think this is typical legal wrangling by the Defense to stall and poke holes in the State's evidence as much as possible. The State was prepared for this to happen.

I don't believe it will take years to come to trial, but I doubt it will be taking place in early October as originally suggested.

Justice is coming for Kaylee, Maddie, Ethan and Xana.

MOO
 
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