4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

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U.N. Known said:
Too often, when the likely culprit is not a family member/close friend, and there is community pressure LE and Prosecutors hone in on a good or good enough suspect and don't look elsewhere.

[quoting myself]

I did not say that I think my words above apply to this case; I do not have enough information to reasonably posit that it does. My intent was to point out that it can and has happened that LE settles on a suspect without adequately clearing or looking for others. IMO, the fact that what many call tunnel vision happens at all is reason enough to be wary of declaring a suspect or defendant guilty without access to an abundance of facts from a case -- more than we have access to with this one.

I don't have a stake in BK's guilt or innocence. I just hope that for the sake of the community at large, if he is the person convicted, that he is in fact guilty.
Oh, ok I see what you are saying and now see that you weren't personally speculating along for those lines in respect of this case. So I apologise for that mis-understanding.

Imo though, in the context of discussion, your post did throw the notions of tunnel vision and due diligence 'out there', so to speak. Moo. That's why I thought to post a few examples of why, to my mind, it's very probable LE and the DA were aware of the dangers of tunnel vision and lax due dilegence and likely investigated accordingly. Moo
 
I started with Vans and haven't seen any that come close to looking like these. They kind of look like a medium chunky shoe (a little but not too chunky). With the colors, I'd say black/white, black/gray or black/silver. Tried looking just at running shoes on the off chance he didn't have a special / different pair for that, but nothing seems to be matching.
They are all black New Balance. The way the sole curls up the front of the sneaker is a signature design cue and a dead giveaway.

The other running shoes with that design cue do it slightly differently are easily eliminated. I’ll crack open Photoshop in a bit here.
 
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They are all black New Balance. The way the sole curls up the front of the sneaker is a signature design cue and a dead giveaway.

The other running shoes with that design cue like HOKA are easily eliminated
Yup. New Balance were seized in the Pennsylvania search so makes sense he was wearing this brand. Also dark shoes were seized, so black new balance makes sense.
 
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They are all black New Balance. The way the sole curls up the front of the sneaker is a signature design cue and a dead giveaway.

The other running shoes with that design cue do it slightly differently are easily eliminated. I’ll crack open Photoshop in a bit here.
Agreed they are all black New Balance, tied pretty tightly which keeps us from getting more detail of the top of the shoe. As a shoe person myself, I would call them Dad Shoes.
 
The way it stated is is if he is running the show and I doubt very much that's going on. I wish we would stop waffling between mastermind and town imbecile (not you I just mean in general).

SFF

I think the problem is that our waffling (mine anyway) stems from not believing someone with his educational background in criminology can possibly be THAT stupid. Therefore, we (I) look for alternative reasoning. MOO. I say "I" because I can't speak for anyone else.
 
SFF

I think the problem is that our waffling (mine anyway) stems from not believing someone with his educational background in criminology can possibly be THAT stupid. Therefore, we (I) look for alternative reasoning. MOO. I say "I" because I can't speak for anyone else.
If you haven't seen the twitter thread about the guy putting the orange in his mouth, you should look it up. People with a lot of higher education and very clever brains can make really, really ridiculous choices, and can have and act on ideas that on reflection, and in the aftermath, seem ludicrous. (Look for username micefearboggis.)

You can give a human being a bunch of letters after their name, but they're still a human being. The species who decided to bond with some of the most vicious predators out there (wolves and cats), and ate dairy products until we evolved to not be made violently ill by them, because we really wanted to eat cheese.

MOO
 
If you haven't seen the twitter thread about the guy putting the orange in his mouth, you should look it up. People with a lot of higher education and very clever brains can make really, really ridiculous choices, and can have and act on ideas that on reflection, and in the aftermath, seem ludicrous. (Look for username micefearboggis.)

You can give a human being a bunch of letters after their name, but they're still a human being. The species who decided to bond with some of the most vicious predators out there (wolves and cats), and ate dairy products until we evolved to not be made violently ill by them, because we really wanted to eat cheese.

MOO
That was a great, funny, not so funny, thread. I panicked with him more and more with each post! What did I take away from it? I guess when I think of BK (although not a scientist per se) from now on, I will think whenever you read "some scientists think", think about me and recalibrate the lower end of your expectations accordingly.

OT, I also would like to thank my ancestors for staying vigilant with the dairy products. Mmm cheese.
 
Agree @Chloegirl ….. I 100% think it is his Defence at work ….

IMO, the Defence dropped a hint at the “non dissemination order” hearing, that they could be heading this way …. When the defence gave the Judge an additional reason for standing silent at the indictment hearing …..

Edit to add a reference:

Taylor further noted that the suspect kept mute throughout his arraignment on May 22in order to maintain his right to contest the indictment.


All IMO

It's all legal strategy which I understand because that's what they have. They haven't found exculpatory evidence (yet) or they would be submitting it. I'm not going to say grasping at straws but legal wrangling due to possible guilt, lack of alibi, knowing what's coming in terms of the evidence from the car, more information released internally in the investigation that we are not privy to. IMO.
 
YOUR QUOTE:
"OR maybe part of me enjoys playing devil's advocate."

I can play devil's advocate too.

MAYBE in all this evidence there is nothing to tie BK to 4 homicides:

51 terabytes of information that includes thousands of pages of discovery, thousands of photographs, hundreds of hours of recordings, many gigabytes of electronic phone records and social media data.

Maybe
it's someone else's car that is seen dozens of times on dozens of videos,
maybe it's someone else's phone pinging dozens of times back and forth to the crime scene,
maybe a man who looks similar to BK did it,
maybe
someone else dropped a knife sheath in the bed - that "just happens" to have BK's DNA on it.

Maybe the 100's of Search Warrants didn't turn up any incriminating evidence against BK:

No incriminating purchases.
No incriminating online searches.
No Social Media ties to any of the victims or to their family or friends.

Maybe all these criminal investigators missed the real killer and the real killer is still "out there."

Assistant Chief - Washington State University Police Department
Idaho State Police (ISP)
Idaho State Police Forensics Services
Idaho State Police Detectives
Moscow Police Department Officers (MPD)
WSU Police
FBI Agents
FBI Forensic Examiner - 35 years with LE and 12 years with the FBI
Moscow Police Department Sergeant - 22 years with previous homicide investigations
Latah County Sheriff's Deputy Corporal (CPL)
Technical Specialists from all LE organizations
Technical Specialist in digital devices
Technical Specialist in digital media

Cell Site Location Information (CSLI)
Cellular Analysis Survey Team (CAST)
Idaho State Crime Lab
Othram (Genetics)
This post wins the:

1686931907398.png in my book! And I don't give those awards out very often. I'm more apt to throw someone a bone to gnaw on. ;)

Source
 
Is that a little tag or logo on the right hand side at the front??? (BK’s left foot)

From your image ….

View attachment 429213

Although I do wonder if he would still have the same shoes 4 - 5 years later?
It wouldn't surprise me if it was a piece of TP stuck on his shoe.

As for would he have the same shoes 4-5 yrs later? Possibly, unless he wore them every single day. I have a lot of shoes way older than 5 yrs. They aren't worn a lot so will last a long time.
 
On another topic, in response to the question on why BK would have knowingly driven his own car on the night of the murders, and JMO...

I don't think BK cared overmuch about his car being captured on video going by video cameras that night, because he went to a lot of effort ahead of time to thwart LE in being able to easily identify his car.

Nor do I think he was worried about his face being seen.

And he was right not to worry too much, because LE never got his face on camera nor a shot of his license plate, AFAIK, and had to go to some effort to identify the white sedan as his car in another way, in the end.

Those white sedans are ubiquitous.

There was no front plate and the back plate could have been obscured. It could have been muddy as OP pointed out a ways back on this thread.

There's a dark tinted plastic convex cover that goes over a license plate so the numbers/letters can't easily be seen to the naked eye that I've seen on cars with Quebec license plates, I guess it's a thing there. And I think I heard LE tried to have them banned, and they lost, so people still drive around with their license plate obscured by a dark tinted cover. So the point is there are a number of ways to obscure a license plate.

The image of a car going by in the dark is inherently very blurry from what I saw of images of the white sedan early on.

His car could also have tin win (dark tinted windows) that would make it difficult to see who was driving no less be able to identify them. I don't recall if his Elantra had tin win, but if so, it's yet another factor at play that would have obscured identification of him as the driver.

IIRC, the FBI had an entire team dedicated to reviewing video footage, and their top expert in the country at identifying makes and models of vehicles from video reviewing thousands of hours of video.

That was some dedicated manpower, and it still took them awhile to narrow it down to an Elantra, and even then, IIRC, LE said there were 18,000 or so white Elantras registered in Idaho when they started their search.

And at the time BK's wasn't even registered in Idaho but PA, so id'ing his vehicle was even more like finding a needle in a haystack.

Which, IIRC, they were only finally able to do, by going to an out-of-state university's campus security or police, and asking them to search for white Elantras registered to one of several thousand students.

So even if his car was recorded going by, turning around, etc. that night, "here, there, and everywhere", (coming and going from Moscow and Pullman and their neighborhood) that whole set of circumstances would make it extremely difficult for them to identify one of many random white cars as his car, which IMO, he knew full well.

Just like keeping his phone with him was I think like a security blanket for him so he disabled tracking and turned it on and off instead of leaving it at home, he needed the security of driving his own car so he obscured it as much as possible from being easily identified.

In both cases, he took his chances, and bet against the odds, and lost.

Or maybe he wanted to get caught, but didn't want to make it easy, as in catch me if you can.

JMO
 
Okay, I got to say this is impressive finding the shoes and scanning in this close kudos!
Agreed they are all black New Balance, tied pretty tightly which keeps us from getting more detail of the top of the shoe. As a shoe person myself, I would call them Dad Shoes.
Sone one said security guard (mall cop) I agree.
Meant to be uniform black but comfortable for atanding and walking.
 
Sone one said security guard (mall cop) I agree.
Meant to be uniform black but comfortable for atanding and walking.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but was this about the same time he was working at the school? Maybe they're his work shoes, or from when he had that job, if it's a little later.

MOO
 
SFF

I think the problem is that our waffling (mine anyway) stems from not believing someone with his educational background in criminology can possibly be THAT stupid. Therefore, we (I) look for alternative reasoning. MOO. I say "I" because I can't speak for anyone else.
Ted Kaczynski had a PhD and an IQ of 167. This did not prevent him from being sentenced to eight life sentences at Federal ADX Supermax prison.
 
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Sone one said security guard (mall cop) I agree.
Meant to be uniform black but comfortable for atanding and walking.
Agree, they look like "work shoes" to me, that would fit ;) with a security guard uniform.

BK worked as a part-time security officer at his former High School, so maybe he just kept wearing the same type of shoe.

And you know what they say, if the shoe fits, wear it.

"Bryan Christopher Kohberger had been working as a part-time security officer for Pleasant Valley School District, where his mother was on staff..."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ohberger-murders-family-parents-b2258726.html
 
On another topic, in response to the question on why BK would have knowingly driven his own car on the night of the murders, and JMO...

I don't think BK cared overmuch about his car being captured on video going by video cameras that night, because he went to a lot of effort ahead of time to thwart LE in being able to easily identify his car.

Nor do I think he was worried about his face being seen.

And he was right not to worry too much, because LE never got his face on camera nor a shot of his license plate, AFAIK, and had to go to some effort to identify the white sedan as his car in another way, in the end.

Those white sedans are ubiquitous.

There was no front plate and the back plate could have been obscured. It could have been muddy as OP pointed out a ways back on this thread.

There's a dark tinted plastic convex cover that goes over a license plate so the numbers/letters can't easily be seen to the naked eye that I've seen on cars with Quebec license plates, I guess it's a thing there. And I think I heard LE tried to have them banned, and they lost, so people still drive around with their license plate obscured by a dark tinted cover. So the point is there are a number of ways to obscure a license plate.

The image of a car going by in the dark is inherently very blurry from what I saw of images of the white sedan early on.

His car could also have tin win (dark tinted windows) that would make it difficult to see who was driving no less be able to identify them. I don't recall if his Elantra had tin win, but if so, it's yet another factor at play that would have obscured identification of him as the driver.

IIRC, the FBI had an entire team dedicated to reviewing video footage, and their top expert in the country at identifying makes and models of vehicles from video reviewing thousands of hours of video.

That was some dedicated manpower, and it still took them awhile to narrow it down to an Elantra, and even then, IIRC, LE said there were 18,000 or so white Elantras registered in Idaho when they started their search.

And at the time BK's wasn't even registered in Idaho but PA, so id'ing his vehicle was even more like finding a needle in a haystack.

Which, IIRC, they were only finally able to do, by going to an out-of-state university's campus security or police, and asking them to search for white Elantras registered to one of several thousand students.

So even if his car was recorded going by, turning around, etc. that night, "here, there, and everywhere", (coming and going from Moscow and Pullman and their neighborhood) that whole set of circumstances would make it extremely difficult for them to identify one of many random white cars as his car, which IMO, he knew full well.

Just like keeping his phone with him was I think like a security blanket for him so he disabled tracking and turned it on and off instead of leaving it at home, he needed the security of driving his own car so he obscured it as much as possible from being easily identified.

In both cases, he took his chances, and bet against the odds, and lost.

Or maybe he wanted to get caught, but didn't want to make it easy, as in catch me if you can.

JMO

IIRC, BK's car had no front license plate since PA doesn't require both a front and rear plate. But Idaho does require both front and rear plates. (I think that is what I read earlier on.) If that is the case, then maybe this would have narrowed the list of white Elantra's identified.
 
YOUR QUOTE:
"OR maybe part of me enjoys playing devil's advocate."

I can play devil's advocate too.

MAYBE in all this evidence there is nothing to tie BK to 4 homicides:

51 terabytes of information that includes thousands of pages of discovery, thousands of photographs, hundreds of hours of recordings, many gigabytes of electronic phone records and social media data.

Maybe
it's someone else's car that is seen dozens of times on dozens of videos,
maybe it's someone else's phone pinging dozens of times back and forth to the crime scene,
maybe a man who looks similar to BK did it,
maybe
someone else dropped a knife sheath in the bed - that "just happens" to have BK's DNA on it.

Maybe the 100's of Search Warrants didn't turn up any incriminating evidence against BK:

No incriminating purchases.
No incriminating online searches.
No Social Media ties to any of the victims or to their family or friends.

Maybe all these criminal investigators missed the real killer and the real killer is still "out there."

Assistant Chief - Washington State University Police Department
Idaho State Police (ISP)
Idaho State Police Forensics Services
Idaho State Police Detectives
Moscow Police Department Officers (MPD)
WSU Police
FBI Agents
FBI Forensic Examiner - 35 years with LE and 12 years with the FBI
Moscow Police Department Sergeant - 22 years with previous homicide investigations
Latah County Sheriff's Deputy Corporal (CPL)
Technical Specialists from all LE organizations
Technical Specialist in digital devices
Technical Specialist in digital media

Cell Site Location Information (CSLI)
Cellular Analysis Survey Team (CAST)
Idaho State Crime Lab
Othram (Genetics)
Wow, that's a lot (this may be too, so skip to the last bit if you're not a fan of details).

Okay, I'll say it: the number of people (in general) who declare, as though fact, (with IMOs, JMOs & MOOs thrown in for good measure) that they know Bryan Kohberger is the murderer and the only assailant involved with this case, is to me said with unfathomable confidence.

The regular narrative of "they have more evidence," is often said with the assumption that every piece of forensic evidence, interview, and video looked at since the PCA was written points to one person as the murderer. I don't think it unreasonable to assume that some of that 51 terabytes is neutral, and some of it unrelated to the case (e.g., personal info of people unearthed while looking for connections to the victims) and some of it TBD because they're trying to determine if it pertains at all.

Mistakes happen (2011 Elantra anyone?); LE is not infallible and most don't claim to be ; If they were, no innocent person would ever be arrested, let alone end up in prison.

We're all here to discuss the crime, introduce theories and "sleuth" to determine what we can, especially with a case with so little info. available. And yes, there are numerous things that could connect the dots to BK; if those dots do connect; it does not look good for BK--at all. They may look just as bad or worse when we know more of the evidence. That being said, as others and I have already pointed out, some of those things could be unravelled to nothing. That' pat of what makes this case interesting to dig into.

The important bit for those who skipped ahead: For anyone who is adamant that BK is guilty, I do understand that this forum is not a court, so anyone can presume guilty trial or no trial!

However, please keep in mind that those of us who are not ready to throw away the keys to the prison, do not have to be BK apologists, (I'm not), firm that he is innocent (not that either), incompetent (not last I checked) or uninformed (not about anything I choose to post about!). It just means we want to read about that "more evidence" we know is out there--to see who or what it points to without assuming one way or another.

JMO, or course. :)
 
True, but him letting his brother know enough to be able turn him in was a slip up, IMO.
IQ measures intellect, logic, ability to identify and comprehend patterns, cause and effect. The two frontal lobes of the brain are firing in order to problem solve.

Emotional investment in committing murder, satisfying cravings, getting vengence, channelling envy, hatred even feelings of self righteousness and entitlement- all that lights up the amygdala - the earliest most primitive part of the brain. Even very high IQ individuals (unless psychopaths of the order represented in the fictional Hannibal Lecter) have functionining amygdalas that can override logic and rationality. Moo
 
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