4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #84

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SMK777 said:
I am not 100% sure he’s guilty.
But on the other hand, I won’t be surprised if he is.
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For me the DNA on the knife sheath snap , which is said to be a match to a cheek swab, pretty much seals the deal-- they can try a million ways from Sunday to explain that away, but it is, as someone pointed out "the smoking gun"----
 
Chloegirl said:
Complete speculation on my end, I think they knew he had problems as a child and he was likely medicated, overindulged in every way, which may have contributed to his weight. When he got to that critical point of adolescence, I wonder if he didn't refuse all the things they did to somewhat subdue his aggressive behavior particularly medication?. And when he was able to bring himself forward, along with drug seeking behavior, theft, etc. they became afraid of him. I have no evidence for this I just think that placating him may have led to not recognizing the scale of his problems. Having him arrested may have been intent to get him under control but there's a struggle here we don't know about. If he pleads it would be to conceal that long history and possibly he doesn't want to be considered "mentally ill". JMOO.
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I think you're on the right track. And even for parents with the money and knowledge to proactively seek all the help they can find, there is often little that can be done. I know of one situation where a teen threatened to kill his parents multiple times. It was not a bluff. It seems almost inevitable that some parents may become frightened, overwhelmed and exhausted living in such a situation. Such parents may reach a point where placating the child, to have at least some peace, seems like an attractive alternative.

BK telling his Father not to do something stupid and report his theft is chilling. I would be surprised if that sort of intimidation was a one time thing. As a troubled child becomes older, and more conditioned to getting what they want by using certain techniques, "upping the ante" wouldn't be a surprise either.

I hope BK's parents are not torturing themselves by asking each other what stone they left unturned, what else they should have/could have done. Assuming he's guilty as charged, there is likely nothing they could have done to change who BK turned out to be.
 
Nova said:
No, what AT said is (a) she is NOT accusing the prosecution of MISCONDUCT, but (b) her team and the ADAs DISAGREE as to what must be produced as part of discovery. And so they need Judge Judge to "break the tie" for them with a ruling on such matters.

Sorry if that wasn't clear. I found it refreshingly cordial, and I suspect such politeness is typical in small states (population-wise) where the DA and the PD know they will meet again in case after case and they want to preserve a cooperative relationship with the opposition to the extent such is possible.
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Yes, I got that, thank you. :)
 
The request for office training information does not bother me. It is important to verify that officers handling evidence in the chain of custody are appropriately changed. It is important to verify that the officers taking initial reports from the two survivors were appropriately trained and kept appropriate records.

Although it is hard to imagine how BK is not guilty, there are weaknesses in the prosecution case.

There is an 8 hour gap between the assumed time of the crime and the 911 call. There were two survivors/witnesses in the house in different locations (although I have seen no direct proof of that), and both delayed a very long time. Did either survivor contaminate the crime scene? Did the friends called for help contaminate the crime scene? These individuals are victims on the forum, but witnesses to the legal system.

LE has identified a car matching that of BK, but is it THE CAR? Or something similar?

We have cell evidence that BK was often near the murder house, but the information released so far does not place him at the house.

There is suspicious activity with his phone the night of the crime, but his phone cannot be placed in Moscow at that time.

If the defense can somehow exclude the DNA, this case becomes much more interesting. If the DNA stays, it is hard to see a feasible way to Reasonable Doubt.
 
ilovewings said:
For me the DNA on the knife sheath snap , which is said to be a match to a cheek swab, pretty much seals the deal-- they can try a million ways from Sunday to explain that away, but it is, as someone pointed out "the smoking gun"----
Click to expand...

He would need to prove that his DNA could have been transferred to the sheath snap via some other method but that would mean the 'real' murderer is out there completely unidentified. Doesn't seem likely.
 
Wallendo said:
The request for office training information does not bother me. It is important to verify that officers handling evidence in the chain of custody are appropriately changed. It is important to verify that the officers taking initial reports from the two survivors were appropriately trained and kept appropriate records.

Although it is hard to imagine how BK is not guilty, there are weaknesses in the prosecution case.

There is an 8 hour gap between the assumed time of the crime and the 911 call. There were two survivors/witnesses in the house in different locations (although I have seen no direct proof of that), and both delayed a very long time. Did either survivor contaminate the crime scene? Did the friends called for help contaminate the crime scene? These individuals are victims on the forum, but witnesses to the legal system.

LE has identified a car matching that of BK, but is it THE CAR? Or something similar?

We have cell evidence that BK was often near the murder house, but the information released so far does not place him at the house.

There is suspicious activity with his phone the night of the crime, but his phone cannot be placed in Moscow at that time.

If the defense can somehow exclude the DNA, this case becomes much more interesting. If the DNA stays, it is hard to see a feasible way to Reasonable Doubt.
Click to expand...


In my humble opinion looking at the evidence in a silo and individually dismissing each piece is misleading. The pieces of evidence corroborate, align, bolster and build on each other. Making the probability that any one piece is wrong extremely low. And prosecutors will hammer that home in the closing arguments.

The chances that the cell phone data erred in the same exact places and times that a white elantra was spotted on video are......? Pulling in and out of Pullman, the next day at the grocery store as he's seen on CCTV stepping out of his car in broad daylight, at his parents house in PA where the cell data was corroborated by surveillance.

So to believe the cell is wrong you also have to believe that it's not his car in the video. If you believe that's not his car in the video then you need to believe the cell phone evidence is completely off and that BK was not in his car, his phone was malfunctioning, and that was not him heading towards the place where his DNA was found. Then you need to find an explanation for why the cell phone matched his CCTV location the following day on video. And again as he drove across the country and at his house in PA.

How many people are willing to accept those extraordinary coincidences?

Also, the DNA places him inside of the house. Besides a 4k video I can't think of anything any clearer than the suspects DNA on a piece of the murder weapon.
 
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schooling said:
In my humble opinion looking at the evidence in a silo and individually dismissing each piece is misleading. The pieces of evidence corroborate, align, bolster and build on each other. Making the probability that any one piece is wrong extremely low. And prosecutors will hammer that home in the closing arguments.

The chances that the cell phone data erred in the same exact places and times that a white elantra was spotted on video are......? Pulling in and out of Pullman, the next day at the grocery store as he's seen on CCTV stepping out of his car in broad daylight, at his parents house in PA where the cell data was corroborated by surveillance.

So to believe the cell is wrong you also have to believe that it's not his car in the video. If you believe that's not his car in the video then you need to believe the cell phone evidence is completely off and that BK was not in his car, his phone was malfunctioning, and that was not him heading towards the place where his DNA was found. Then you need to find an explanation for why the cell phone matched his CCTV location the following day on video. And again as he drove across the country and at his house in PA.

How many people are willing to accept those extraordinary coincidences?

Also, the DNA places him inside of the house. Besides a 4k video I can't think of anything any clearer than the suspects DNA on a piece of the murder weapon.
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Very well said----totally agree
 
Wallendo said:
The request for office training information does not bother me. It is important to verify that officers handling evidence in the chain of custody are appropriately changed. It is important to verify that the officers taking initial reports from the two survivors were appropriately trained and kept appropriate records.

Although it is hard to imagine how BK is not guilty, there are weaknesses in the prosecution case.

<snipped for focus>
Click to expand...
I apologize for choosing your post to say this under, but I think there is too much that we don't yet know (IMO) to say whether there are truly gaps in their case or just gaps in our information. So much of what has been reported seems questionable at best, and the PCA is what I would call Minimalist. I think it is still quite possible that we will get to trial and find out that many of these "gaps" were only gaps in what the Media could dig up to report on. Fingers crossed!!
 
Wallendo said:
The request for office training information does not bother me. It is important to verify that officers handling evidence in the chain of custody are appropriately changed. It is important to verify that the officers taking initial reports from the two survivors were appropriately trained and kept appropriate records.

Although it is hard to imagine how BK is not guilty, there are weaknesses in the prosecution case.

There is an 8 hour gap between the assumed time of the crime and the 911 call. There were two survivors/witnesses in the house in different locations (although I have seen no direct proof of that), and both delayed a very long time. Did either survivor contaminate the crime scene? Did the friends called for help contaminate the crime scene? These individuals are victims on the forum, but witnesses to the legal system.

LE has identified a car matching that of BK, but is it THE CAR? Or something similar?

We have cell evidence that BK was often near the murder house, but the information released so far does not place him at the house.

There is suspicious activity with his phone the night of the crime, but his phone cannot be placed in Moscow at that time.

If the defense can somehow exclude the DNA, this case becomes much more interesting. If the DNA stays, it is hard to see a feasible way to Reasonable Doubt.
Click to expand...
MOO excluding relevant evidence is the defense's entire plan, that and planning for appeal.
 
robotwithhumanhair said:
Is anyone here not 100 percent “guilty” on Bryan Kohburger? Or everyone thinks it was him for sure? JMO. Edited to add: genuinely asking not trying to berate anyone for their opinions
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Guilty, with a very small possibility we should be looking at an accomplice for aiding.

Edited because as usual...MOO
 
U.N. Known said:
This video is a small example of the reason why even mainstream coverage leads to juror bias.
Though BK was wearing a suit in the last court hearings, all of the 2023 media coverage of him dressed in orange jailhouse couture. They could have shown him in the suit or used clips from the last two hearings (prior to 6/27), but I highly suspect that there was an executive decision not to.

I wish MSM was neutral; there are too many people who never go beyond those short news clips. Even those who do are often easily persuaded (manipulated) to whichever way the media wind is blowing.
Click to expand...
Also, the media's ignoring of the Judge's request/warning not to focus on Bryan's face, but to focus on the overall courtroom proceedings is going to force the Judge's hand to not allow cameras in the courtroom during (if) trial. One camera man/woman/person in general (it might be against TOS to name them? So I won't) just could not help themselves to continually focus and zoom in on BK's face even while someone else was speaking. <modsnip - namecalling> JMO
 
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Comparing MPD report to the 10,000 tips report from the hearing yesterday:

December 29th MPD update:

 Investigators continue processing and working through more than 9,025 emailed tips, 4,575 phone tips, 6,050 digital media submissions


More tips came in after the arrest. According to Chief Fry, over 400 called in within an hour of BKs arrest. (first question in interview)

www.newsnationnow.com

Moscow police chief speaks out after arrest in Idaho stabbings case | Prime

Moscow Police Chief James Fry opened up to NewsNation's Nancy Loo in one of his first interviews since the arrest of a suspect in connection with the November stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students. Read more here: https://trib.al/w1Za0BD #Idaho #Suspect #JamesFry #Interview
www.newsnationnow.com www.newsnationnow.com

Yesterday:

1687952347445.png

Defendants 2nd Motion to compel (6/15/2023)

1687953653967.png

MOO
 
maskedwoman said:
I apologize for choosing your post to say this under, but I think there is too much that we don't yet know (IMO) to say whether there are truly gaps in their case or just gaps in our information. So much of what has been reported seems questionable at best, and the PCA is what I would call Minimalist. I think it is still quite possible that we will get to trial and find out that many of these "gaps" were only gaps in what the Media could dig up to report on. Fingers crossed!!
Click to expand...
No offense taken.

My personal experience following true crime cases is that with the explosion in the true crime industry and unfortunate trends towards doxing innocent witnesses, much less information is available to us now than several years ago. Witnesses who, in the past, sought their 15 minutes of fame are now afraid of going public to avoid threats and accusations.
 
I missed this one yesterday relates to GJ
COMES NOW the State of Idaho, by and through the Latah County Prosecuting Attorney, and respectfully submits the attached proposed Order regarding grand jury transcript and record for the Court’s consideration. The State has consulted with the court clerk’s office and ascertained that the items listed on Exhibit appended to the proposed order constitute the entirety of the contents of the grand jury. file. The State has communicated this proposal to the defense but the parties have yet to reach an agreement.

Edit: I think the above relates to this one MOO

MOTION T0 TEMPORARILY SEAL EXHIBIT OF THE PROPOSED ORDER FOR PREPARATION AND RELEASE OF TRANSCRIPT AND RECORD OF GRAND JURY PROCEEDINGS WITH CONDITIONS
 
NyxNY said:
Also, the media's ignoring of the Judge's request/warning not to focus on Bryan's face, but to focus on the overall courtroom proceedings is going to force the Judge's hand to not allow cameras in the courtroom during (if) trial. One camera man/woman/person in general (it might be against TOS to name them? So I won't) just could not help themselves to continually focus and zoom in on BK's face even while someone else was speaking. <modsnip - namecalling> JMO
Click to expand...
That clip was taken before the judge made the request.
 
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SMK777 said:
I am not 100% sure he’s guilty.
But on the other hand, I won’t be surprised if he is.
Click to expand...

Based on the PCA and his reported behavior in PA at his parent's house, I am 85% sure he is guilty. Prosecutor is probably 100% sure and the defense, if honest, would probably be 70% sure themselves... but that is not their job. Their job is to serve their client and get the best deal possible.
 
Nila Aella said:
Comparing MPD report to the 10,000 tips report from the hearing yesterday:

December 29th MPD update:

 Investigators continue processing and working through more than 9,025 emailed tips, 4,575 phone tips, 6,050 digital media submissions


More tips came in after the arrest. According to Chief Fry, over 400 called in within an hour of BKs arrest. (first question in interview)

www.newsnationnow.com

Moscow police chief speaks out after arrest in Idaho stabbings case | Prime

Moscow Police Chief James Fry opened up to NewsNation's Nancy Loo in one of his first interviews since the arrest of a suspect in connection with the November stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students. Read more here: https://trib.al/w1Za0BD #Idaho #Suspect #JamesFry #Interview
www.newsnationnow.com www.newsnationnow.com

Yesterday:

View attachment 431538

Defendants 2nd Motion to compel (6/15/2023)

View attachment 431539

MOO
Click to expand...

That is interesting although I think I do remember it was around 400. Is he worried who corroborated against him or looking for something more specific? It would be interesting to read that list. MOO
 
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