4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #85

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Sundog said:
IIRC, the report about KG having a stalker was never verified. KG's sister stated that she was not aware of KG having a stalker, and she believed that KG would have mentioned this to her if that was the case.
Click to expand...

I don’t know if KG had a stalker, but you know, how you develop a strange feeling when someone is intensely looking at you? And then you turn the head, and meet the person’s eyes? I don’t even think it can be called intuition, because you are aware of the gaze. What I want to say, if BK was next to the house 12 times, and observed it, maybe once it happened before KG moved out, and she felt it? That would explain why her story about a stalker was so vague.

(Just my own assumption.)
 
girlhasnoname said:
Anybody want to take a guess as to what it will be?
Click to expand...
Could be the Defense will not file an alibi after all Imo. I don't think the D is bound by their earlier affirmation but Moo as not entirely sure about that. Do not know how it can be explained re him being 15 minutes south of Moscow 30 mins after the murders and if the defense will want to do that at this point. I'm not so up on the law re alibi defense but I understand that the D can't just say he was elsewhere - they need supporting witnesses and/or some kind of support/evidence if he is going to say he was just driving around or that he was at home between 4am and 4.20am? Who or what could vouch for that? His phone was not connecting with the network so unless there is some sort of digital evidence from another device that might prove difficult. And what is likelihood of neighbour seeing his car in his lot at 4am? Idk, but seems really problematical to me. But who knows...it's certainly a wait and see moment. I suppose he may just say he went out for a drive at about 4.15am that would put him on highway 95 heading south at about 4.50am without any support or the promise that support will come later. Moo
 
jepop said:
Just something to consider re AT&T warrant and the possibility of it being informed by BK Reddit Warrant. I just noticed this thanks to @Chloegirl reminding me about BK's reddit use for his Criminal survey project when at DeSales.

BK Reddit
26th Jan-Served
Feb 8th -Link sent for download
March 22nd - Downloaded to MPD computer
March 23rd - Inventory prepared

Latest reason's for sealing - Intimate facts/statements and fair trial.

To explain the delay between link for download and actual download to MPD computer I speculate that between Feb 8th and March 22nd FBI investigators were going through the Return of Property having downloaded from a separate computer on Feb 8th. The receipt statement makes a point of specifying that the info was downloaded to MPD computer on March 22nd. Moo.

What I didn't notice before was the inclusion of the words "phone number" and IMEI unredacted under Description of Property in the Receipt and Inventory. See pages 1-2 of Receipt and Inventory

The Scope for this BK Reddit Warrant is June 1 2022 to present, and is based on PC that there cause to believe the info may be pertinent to the investigation of the murders, not the crimes themselves.

"TO: ANY PEACE OFFICER AUTHORIZED TO ENFORCE OR ASSIST IN
ENFORCING ANY LAW OF THE STATE OF IDAHO.
Lawrence Mowery, having given me proof, upon oath, this day showing probable
cause establishing grounds for issuing a search warrant and there is probable cause to believe that the property referred to and sought in or upon said premises
consists of information related to the investigation of the homicide(s) of Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves, XanaKemodle, and/or Ethan Chapin at 1122 King Road, Moscow, Idaho on the Reddit account ofBryan Kohberger with any of the
following IDENTIFIERS:
Email address(es)
. and/or and/or_: and/or phone number '
and/or IMEI generated on or between June 1, 2022 to present,... "


A week later we have AT&T Warrant for info related to two unknown numbers.

March 30th - Granted
April 3rd -Served
April 12th -Email with requested info.
April13th - Inventory prepared.

Latest reasons for sealing are intimate facts/statements; fair trial; disclosure of investigative technique; might threaten or endanger life or safety of individuals.

Scope is June 23rd (the day BK opened his acc with AT&T) to Aug 1 2022. This time warrant is based on PC that there cause to believe the info may be pertinent to the crime/s of homicide.

"TO: ANY PEACE OFFICER AUTHORIZED TO ENFORCE OR ASSIST IN
ENFORCING ANY LAW OF THE STATE OF IDAHO.
Lawrence Mowery, having given me proof, upon oath, this day showing probable cause establishing grounds for issuing a search warrant and there is probablecause to believe that the property referred to and sought in or upon said premises consists of evidence of the crime(s) of homicide and burglary occurring at
1122 King Road, Moscow Idaho on or about November l3, 2022, to include user
account information, location data, and stored communications held by AT&T, described in further detail as follows:...
...[snipped quote for focus]...
...For the time period of: June 23, 2022, to August 1, 2022

AT&T Wireless Number:
Subscriber Name: Unknown at this time
AT&T Wireless Number:
Subscriber Name: Unknown at this time
To include both Historical Records and Real Time/Provisional
Records..."

It's possible these numbers were uncovered as a result of investigations into BK's reddit account. Moo

Click to expand...
It is possible that the two unknown numbers were found from a previous warrant. Just not sure if it was the reddit. MOO

The three email, ph, and IMEI are listed on a few of the BK warrants. Most of the returns are redacted except the IMEI.
IMO the phone number on the reddit return was just missed.

BK Tinder (3 email/ph/IMEI on request and return and request is for information related to)

Also, if you look at the phone warrants: they state evidence of the crime of homicide.

Verizon

If you look at ones that are for Information on like SNAP/Tinder (above) it states information related to the crime.

Snap


JMO
edit grammar and clarified reddit return
 
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jepop said:
Could be the Defense will not file an alibi after all Imo. I don't think the D is bound by their earlier affirmation but Moo as not entirely sure about that. Do not know how it can be explained re him being 15 minutes south of Moscow 30 mins after the murders and if the defense will want to do that at this point. I'm not so up on the law re alibi defense but I understand that the D can't just say he was elsewhere - they need supporting witnesses and/or some kind of support/evidence if he is going to say he was just driving around or that he was at home between 4am and 4.20am? Who or what could vouch for that? His phone was not connecting with the network so unless there is some sort of digital evidence from another device that might prove difficult. And what is likelihood of neighbour seeing his car in his lot at 4am? Idk, but seems really problematical to me. But who knows...it's certainly a wait and see moment. I suppose he may just say he went out for a drive at about 4.15am that would put him on highway 95 heading south at about 4.50am without any support or the promise that support will come later. Moo
Click to expand...
If BK plans on using any testimony for witnesses or experts in support of his alibi he must provide it to the State before trial or the Defense will may be able to use them during trial. The defendant can always testify to his alibi though.

Title 19 - CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
Chapter 5 - COMPLAINT AND WARRANT OF ARREST
Section 19-519 - NOTICE OF DEFENSE OF ALIBI.​

Universal Citation: ID Code § 19-519 (2022)
19-519. NOTICE OF DEFENSE OF ALIBI. (1) At any time after arraignment before a magistrate upon a complaint and upon written demand of the prosecuting attorney, the defendant shall serve, within ten (10) days or at such different time as the court may direct, upon the prosecuting attorney, a written notice of his intention to offer a defense of alibi. Such notice by the defendant shall state the specific place or places at which the defendant claims to have been at the time of the alleged offense and the names and addresses of the witnesses upon whom he intends to rely to establish such alibi.
(2) Within ten (10) days after receipt of the defendant’s notice of alibi but in no event less than ten (10) days before trial, unless the court otherwise directs, the prosecuting attorney shall serve upon the defendant or his attorney a written notice stating the names and addresses of the witnesses upon whom the prosecution intends to rely to establish the defendant’s presence at the scene of the alleged offense and any other witnesses to be relied on to rebut testimony of any of the defendant’s alibi witnesses.
(3) If prior to or during trial a party learns of an additional witness whose identity, if known, should have been included in the information furnished under subsection (1) or subsection (2) of this section, the party shall promptly notify the other party or his attorney of the existence and identity of such additional witness.
(4) Upon the failure of either party to comply with the requirements of this section, the court may exclude the testimony of any undisclosed witness offered by such party as to the defendant’s absence from or presence at, the scene of the alleged offense. This section shall not limit the right of the defendant to testify in his own behalf.
(5) For good cause shown the court may grant an exception to any of the requirements of subsections (1) through (4) of this section.

History:
[19-519, added 1978, ch. 301, sec. 1, p. 758.]
 
jepop said:
Could be the Defense will not file an alibi after all Imo. I don't think the D is bound by their earlier affirmation but Moo as not entirely sure about that. Do not know how it can be explained re him being 15 minutes south of Moscow 30 mins after the murders and if the defense will want to do that at this point. I'm not so up on the law re alibi defense but I understand that the D can't just say he was elsewhere - they need supporting witnesses and/or some kind of support/evidence if he is going to say he was just driving around or that he was at home between 4am and 4.20am? Who or what could vouch for that? His phone was not connecting with the network so unless there is some sort of digital evidence from another device that might prove difficult. And what is likelihood of neighbour seeing his car in his lot at 4am? Idk, but seems really problematical to me. But who knows...it's certainly a wait and see moment. I suppose he may just say he went out for a drive at about 4.15am that would put him on highway 95 heading south at about 4.50am without any support or the promise that support will come later. Moo
Click to expand...
You're probably right, maybe they won't. AT is probably looking to get him off on some technicality IMO.

I agree he has no alibi, but the Defense sure is hung up on the DNA (testing) and model year of the Elantra. Could his notice of alibi be as simple as I was home sleeping, it wasn't me/my DNA or my car? The rule does say the Defendant must supply notice of confirmation of alibi to the Prosecution, ie witnesses who can place him elsewhere, video footage etc.

Even if it makes no logical sense at all due to DNA match on the sheath, the surveillance videos of his car, and his phone pinging info, would he then even be able to use expert testimony on those points? IDK? It makes me crazy to think about. o_O @gitana1 (one of our esteemed lawyers) can you weigh in on this if you can please?

I think BK likes playing games. :mad:

MOO
 
Balthazar said:
It’s not funny to me. These were found in relation to the victims. Why would Ethans brother be in MM‘s bedroom? Even before the crime that is not logical at all. If you mean Ethan’s BF who discovered EC and XK’s murder, again why was he in MM’s bedroom? That doesn’t make sense at all. Also LE would have taken the fingerprints and DNA of everyone known who was in that house so they were ruled out.
Click to expand...

In MM’s bedroom? Where did they say that? I thought that we haven’t been told where any DNA was found, except for that on the sheath, of course.

MOO
 
girlhasnoname said:
I agree he has no alibi, but the Defense sure is hung up on the DNA (testing) and model year of the Elantra.
Click to expand...

I have absolutely no doubt they’re monitoring social media for ideas, too, because if there’s one thing I’ve seen people willing to scrap tooth and nail over it’s that dumb model year debate.

JMO
 
jjleroche said:
Hmmm. Let's see....Nope. Can't think of anything yet. Can't wait to see what sort of creative alibi will be provided. Any chance that Defense will say there isn't one?
Click to expand...
I don't think the defense would say there is no alibi, they would just refrain from filing an alibi with the court, or something along those lines. The defense is not obligated to state an alibi, but if a defendant is planning to use an alibi in their case, there are timelines to make sure that everyone has time to prepare witnesses, evidence, etc. related to the alibi (both prosecution and defense). It isn't to pressure the defense, but to allow time for preparation before the state of a trial.

JMO, IANAL.
 
ArianeEmory said:
I have absolutely no doubt they’re monitoring social media for ideas, too, because if there’s one thing I’ve seen people willing to scrap tooth and nail over it’s that dumb model year debate.

JMO
Click to expand...

Well, it is not “dumb” if you go back to the time when BK was not yet apprehended. Here is how it looked to us.

www.foxnews.com

Idaho police search for white Hyundai Elantra in Moscow college murder case

Detectives investigating the quadruple homicide at the University of Idaho want to speak with occupants of a white Hyundai Elantra that was near the scene of the murders.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

And if you remember, they went on a wild goose chase because of crashed Elantra abandoned in Eugene, Oregon. A theory emerged linking Idaho murders to those in Oregon. Money and resources were spent on verifying that information, too.

So when everyone was searching for 2011-2013 Elantras, and submitted tips, the person now accused of murders, BK, was driving 2015 Elantra. And were it not for the DNA, would probably fly under the radar.
 
Charlot123 said:
Well, it is not “dumb” if you go back to the time when BK was not yet apprehended. Here is how it looked to us.

www.foxnews.com

Idaho police search for white Hyundai Elantra in Moscow college murder case

Detectives investigating the quadruple homicide at the University of Idaho want to speak with occupants of a white Hyundai Elantra that was near the scene of the murders.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

And if you remember, they went on a wild goose chase because of crashed Elantra abandoned in Eugene, Oregon. A theory emerged linking Idaho murders to those in Oregon. Money and resources were spent on verifying that information, too.

So when everyone was searching for 2011-2013 Elantras, and submitted tips, the person now accused of murders, BK, was driving 2015 Elantra. And were it not for the DNA, would probably fly under the radar.
Click to expand...

White Hyundai Elantra debate lives! Just joking.
 
Charlot123 said:
I don’t know if KG had a stalker, but you know, how you develop a strange feeling when someone is intensely looking at you? And then you turn the head, and meet the person’s eyes? I don’t even think it can be called intuition, because you are aware of the gaze. What I want to say, if BK was next to the house 12 times, and observed it, maybe once it happened before KG moved out, and she felt it? That would explain why her story about a stalker was so vague.

(Just my own assumption.)
Click to expand...
Entirely possible, MOO.

KG seemed to have a close relationship with her family, so I’m inclined to accept the comments from her older sister & mom.

OTOH & for those who may not recall, MPD did invest a lot of resources investigating hundreds of tips about this theory and issued the following 12/5/2022 Moscow Homicide Update

IMG_2109.jpeg

So, who knows? That was the state of the investigation then, but the investigation has continued, and we aren’t privy to what changes in that particular aspect have/haven’t changed since.

MOO, as always.
 
jepop said:
Could be the Defense will not file an alibi after all Imo. I don't think the D is bound by their earlier affirmation but Moo as not entirely sure about that. Do not know how it can be explained re him being 15 minutes south of Moscow 30 mins after the murders and if the defense will want to do that at this point. I'm not so up on the law re alibi defense but I understand that the D can't just say he was elsewhere - they need supporting witnesses and/or some kind of support/evidence if he is going to say he was just driving around or that he was at home between 4am and 4.20am? Who or what could vouch for that? His phone was not connecting with the network so unless there is some sort of digital evidence from another device that might prove difficult. And what is likelihood of neighbour seeing his car in his lot at 4am? Idk, but seems really problematical to me. But who knows...it's certainly a wait and see moment. I suppose he may just say he went out for a drive at about 4.15am that would put him on highway 95 heading south at about 4.50am without any support or the promise that support will come later. Moo
Click to expand...
This ^^^ Yes. Agree @jepop IMO BK will take the 5th offering NO alibi through his attorney AT who will stand and say to the JJJ something like, “BK chooses to exercise his right to remain silent at this time."

IMO BK has NO solid alibi. So. I'll be shocked if the D offers more than that. D doesn't want to get locked into a mistake they'd have to explain away later. They can offer an alibi downstream if they create/find one. It'll be another 10-minute hearing with the D-team grinning ear-to-ear as if this is a joke or they haven't a care in the world about the worst, most heinous, vicious, cruel, savage crime in our society. Hopeful the D does read SM & takes murdering 4 innocent people & our system more seriously, no matter who did it.

As always MOO
 
I'm Nobody said:
This ^^^ Yes. Agree @jepop IMO BK will take the 5th offering NO alibi through his attorney AT who will stand and say to the JJJ something like, “BK chooses to exercise his right to remain silent at this time."

IMO BK has NO solid alibi. So. I'll be shocked if the D offers more than that. D doesn't want to get locked into a mistake they'd have to explain away later. They can offer an alibi downstream if they create/find one. It'll be another 10-minute hearing with the D-team grinning ear-to-ear as if this is a joke or they haven't a care in the world about the worst, most heinous, vicious, cruel, savage crime in our society. Hopeful the D does read SM & takes murdering 4 innocent people & our system more seriously, no matter who did it.

As always MOO
Click to expand...
I tend to agree! We will see in a week whether they file a notice or not. But I can't see them wanting to be tied down like you say. The D asked for and received an extension of time to comply with the Prosecution's demand after arraignment to file one - with the implication or even statement that they intended to at that time, but Imo that is not likely to happen - but we will see. Despite all that - Imo they aren't bound and are using multiple tactics with current over-riding tactic being to have case dismissed prior to trial (Imo will not be successful). Moo
 
I'm Nobody said:
<snipped for focus> They can offer an alibi downstream if they create/find one.
Click to expand...
The whole point (I think and could be wrong) for the defense to have a deadline for offering an alibi is that neither side can try the case by ambush. So, CAN they offer an alibi later on? Certainly, they can throw bricks at the prosecution's case all day long, but I wondered whether they can tell the Judge on Monday that they are offering no alibi and then offer one mid-trial. The Newsweek article below suggested that they may have asked for a deadline extension because his attorneys either don't believe whatever alibi he offered, or they are having trouble proving an alibi that isn't in conflict with the evidence already gathered. That makes me think perhaps they can't offer one later on. I would appreciate hearing from any of our attorneys on this. MOOooo

www.newsweek.com

Bryan Kohberger's team playing for time on alibi—Lawyer

Bryan Kohberger's defense team has asked for more time to decide whether to present an alibi on where the suspect was during the murder of four students.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com
 
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