8/20 Ron takes plea, will testify in Haleighs trial

[Justin Tyme]

I think by "Collateral damage" Shoemaker meant that the LE sting focus was targeting Misty and Tommy, and not Ron. There was no implication that Ron was working undercover.

Collateral damage is damage that is unintended or incidental to the intended outcome.

Thank you. I know in war it means that innocent people die that were not the intended target. They are "collateral damage." Underscore innocent, please if you will.
In this case I was trying to point out that RC was not innocent! Do you see where I was going with this? :waitasec:

So, does he want us to think that RC was innocent and not involved in the drug dealing? That he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people? That they wouldn't have busted RC at all if he weren't in the company of MC or ToC?

 

[kamky]

Thank you. I know in war it means that innocent people die that were not the intended target. They are "collateral damage." Underscore innocent, please if you will.
In this case I was trying to point out that RC was not innocent! Do you so where I was going with this? :waitasec:

So, does he want us to think that RC was innocent and not involved in the drug dealing? That he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people? That they wouldn't have busted RC at all if he weren't in the company of MC or ToC?

Yes, I understand your opinion and you are fully entitled to it. It appears that Ron was involved with drugs, as are approximately 12.5 million people in the US. Shoemaker was not making any comment about Ron's innocence in using or dealing drugs. He was saying that Ron was not a target of LE. The drug charges are small potatoes compared to what LE is mostly interested in, which is putting pressure on those they believe responsible for Haleigh's abduction and possible murder.

I don't believe that LE would have been watching Ron to even know he was involved with drugs. However, clearly they were watching Misty & Tommy.

 

[nomoresorrow]

According to this news video http://www.news4jax.com/video/24705313/index.html two of the most serious charges Ronald faced were dropped in exchange for Ronald's agreement to tell LE/SAO everything he knows about HaLeigh's disappearance. (Reporter's words; "He (Ronald) has agreed to provide them (SAO) with everything he knows about his daughter's disappearance.")

It's finally out there - The whole world now knows that Ronald Cummings was not telling LE/SAO everything he knows/knew about HaLeigh's disappearance. Imagine that. Of course TS has to try to publicly "spin it" (RC's testimony merely timeline related...) for his client's sake but the fact of the matter is, it was just too tempting a deal for TS/Ronald to turn down and I for one am overjoyed because finally - EIGHTEEN LONGGGGGGGGGGGGG MONTHS LATER - LE/SAO finally have the upper hand here. Ronald Cummings will now have to answer - and be accountable for - EVERY word and every story that comes out of his mouth. I can even tolerate seeing that chit-eating-ear-to-ear grin on Ronald's face a little longer just knowing that very soon it's gonna get permanently wiped right off of his face. (Glory! Glory!)Hold on baby-girl, JUSTICE IS COMING HALEIGH!!
~ AMOO ~

 

[bessie]

Thank you. I know in war it means that innocent people die that were not the intended target. They are "collateral damage." Underscore innocent, please if you will.
In this case I was trying to point out that RC was not innocent! Do you see where I was going with this? :waitasec:

So, does he want us to think that RC was innocent and not involved in the drug dealing? That he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong people? That they wouldn't have busted RC at all if he weren't in the company of MC or ToC?

No to your first statement. Clearly Ron was involved in dealing drugs. Yes to your second statement and a qualified yes to the third. Fields' statement infers nothing about Tommy because Ron was not in the company of TC during any of the drug deals.

 

[Donjeta]

Yes, I understand your opinion and you are fully entitled to it. It appears that Ron was involved with drugs, as are approximately 12.5 million people in the US. Shoemaker was not making any comment about Ron's innocence in using or dealing drugs. He was saying that Ron was not a target of LE. The drug charges are small potatoes compared to what LE is mostly interested in, which is putting pressure on those they believe responsible for Haleigh's abduction and possible murder.

I don't believe that LE would have been watching Ron to even know he was involved with drugs. However, clearly they were watching Misty & Tommy.

IDK about that... IMO if it turns out to be true that he has some valuable information about Haleigh's fate that he's until now held silent about, it seems very likely to me that he was a target in this drug investigation right along with the others. Because if they suspected that Ron was the key and held back something LE may have wanted him in jail so they have something to pressure Ron and he has a need to bargain with them.

 

[dodie20]

IDK about that... IMO if it turns out to be true that he has some valuable information about Haleigh's fate that he's until now held silent about, it seems very likely to me that he was a target in this drug investigation right along with the others. Because if they suspected that Ron was the key and held back something LE may have wanted him in jail so they have something to pressure Ron and he has a need to bargain with them.

very logical, & if true...very astute of LE. also, we can't just ignore that high bond of his. LE couldn't have pressed him for information, if he had been out, running the roads, as before. & I do believe LE pressed him, just like I believe they pressed the others. But Ron's self preservation kicked in, (just as LE suspected it would, IMO), & they got something of value. finally. LE had Ron right where they wanted him, IMO...right between a rock & a hard place. So, it seems, (I hope), that while Ron & his buddies had moved on & away from that night...LE had not.

 

[bessie]

Yes, I understand your opinion and you are fully entitled to it. It appears that Ron was involved with drugs, as are approximately 12.5 million people in the US. Shoemaker was not making any comment about Ron's innocence in using or dealing drugs. He was saying that Ron was not a target of LE. The drug charges are small potatoes compared to what LE is mostly interested in, which is putting pressure on those they believe responsible for Haleigh's abduction and possible murder.

I don't believe that LE would have been watching Ron to even know he was involved with drugs. However, clearly they were watching Misty & Tommy.

I disagree with the bolded statement, Kamky. I think LE was well aware of Ron's involvement with drugs. It is possible that he was not the intended target of the drug sting. The facts tell us otherwise, however.

• Tommy and Misty sold drugs to the UC on 12/22/09. No arrest
• Misty and Donna sold a significant amount of drugs to the UC on 01/08/10, enough to put Misty away for at least 25 years. No arrest.
• The following six transactions involved Misty and Ron (and Hope, in two instances; a juvenile in one).
• All could've been busted at any time during transactions 1-6. (I believe seven and eight were essentially parts I and II of the same transaction.) Yet the sting progressed until Ron and Misty accepted drugs from the UC with the intent to sell them.

That tells me LE wasn't going to stop until they had Misty and Ron by the you-know-what's.

Shoemaker would like us to believe that was just a fluke. The investigation took a side turn when Ron became involved, and the end result differed from the original objective. I call BS and am aghast at
Shoemaker's statement after he won a deal for his client based on information his client holds about Haleigh's death. Would he have us believe that LE didn't know Ron held information before his arrest? :burn:

(We really need a BS smiley.)

 

[lorann]

Plea bargins are so tricky. Allows LE to gather information and allows perps immunity on lesser charges and saves the cost of court trials. If the perp has agreed to testify - he must, if he was to be granted immunity - he is. If the deal made was to get RC in court and trick him, that would endanger any offers made in the future by that jurisdiction. I don't think that is the case here. I know it was said he would still be held accountable if shown to be guilty of anything - but RC and his lawyer would not have made the deal if they felt hesitant at all. If Ron lied about his work hours for example, LE knows that, Ron could easily admit to those lies. The person/persons who know where Haleigh is know that she will not be found. It is my thought that if she was thrown in the river by The Clean Up Crew, she was removed and placed where only a few know the whereabouts.

 

[dodie20]

I disagree with the bolded statement, Kamky. I think LE was well aware of Ron's involvement with drugs. It is possible that he was not the intended target of the drug sting. The facts tell us otherwise, however.

• Tommy and Misty sold drugs to the UC on 12/22/09. No arrest
• Misty and Donna sold a significant amount of drugs to the UC on 01/08/10, enough to put Misty away for at least 25 years. No arrest.
• The following six transactions involved Misty and Ron (and Hope, in two instances; a juvenile in one).
• All could've been busted at any time during transactions 1-6. (I believe seven and eight were essentially parts I and II of the same transaction.) Yet the sting progressed until Ron and Misty accepted drugs from the UC with the intent to sell them.

That tells me LE wasn't going to stop until they had Misty and Ron by the you-know-what's.

Shoemaker would like us to believe that was just a fluke. The investigation took a side turn when Ron became involved, and the end result differed from the original objective. I call BS and am aghast at
Shoemaker's statement after he won a deal for his client based on information his client holds about Haleigh's death. Would he have us believe that LE didn't know Ron held information before his arrest? :burn:

(We really need a BS smiley.)

yeah, I'm aghast at that 'looking a gift horse in the mouth', mentality too, but some people just have a real hard time, admitting wrongdoing. RON! This is, as NG likes to say, Shoemaker's attempt at putting lipstick on a pig. MOO.

 

[Steely Dan]

But what is the plea deal for?? There is NO upcoming trial! There may NEVER be a trial! Who agreed to this garbage?? I really want to know! The DA?

I'm thinking they know there is going to be a trial. JMO

my way of thinking is that a dad should do right by his dead daughter, because he loved her, & he should man-up to his crimes & accept his punishment.I don't blame his lawyer or LE for doing their jobs, but Ron is a different story. It should have never gotten to the point of him playing games with coupons.

I agree, if Ron knew anything about his daughters abduction and probable death and withheld it this long he's not a very loving father. JMO

EXCELLENT POST AZ!! You have touched on what my theory in this has been from the very begining (as you know) and I posted a little of my feelings about this case in the General Theory thread when I first started posting here. I believe RC was dealing drugs and possibly illegal guns long before HaLeigh went missing. I also believe that during one of his deals, he double crossed the wrong person and HaLeigh's abduction was the result...a revenge. I also believe that TN, GGMA, MC and ToC (and maybe others) know about the double cross. They may not know exactly who the person is that actually took HaLeigh, but they know why. I have long believed that is the reason for the cover up.

I believe RC, TN and GGMS have kept quiet to protect RC from being caught in his illegal activities and doing serious time for Federal charges, and because the others know about it they had to be brought into the cover up as well. MC has not told everything she knows, we all know that. It was the voice analysis tape that showed deception when she was asked if RC could be responsible. I believe the deception was because in her mind he didn't actually hurt HaLeigh but she may have felt that he was responsible because of his actions. I believe TC kept quiet because he was afraid if he talked, his children could also be in danger.

In the beginning the Cummings all kept MC very close and scripted every word she said. That was most obvious in the interview they did in NY. When she was asked for an explanation for her discrepancies, her eyes went immediately to RC for an answer. When he didn't respond, she simply said "I don't know."

IMVHO, RC is indirectly responsible for what happened to HaLeigh, and they are all covering it up. I don't think it is any more complicated than that...it only became complicated when they all started lying.

All of this, of course, is just MY OPINION for what it's worth.

BBM

This isn't a question for you Maia specifically but wouldn't you (meaning the vast majority of parents) be willing to go to jail in order to secure the conviction of your daughters murderer?

What's been lost here, I think, is that Ron's testimony is now tainted. He's received a plea deal and that will be brought up by the defense. JMO

 

[dodie20]

I'm thinking they know there is going to be a trial. JMO



I agree, if Ron knew anything about his daughters abduction and probable death and withheld it this long he's not a very loving father. JMO



BBM

This isn't a question for you Maia specifically but wouldn't you (meaning the vast majority of parents) be willing to go to jail in order to secure the conviction of your daughters murderer?

What's been lost here, I think, is that Ron's testimony is now tainted. He's received a plea deal and that will be brought up by the defense. JMO

well, when he 1st got busted, that's exactly what TN was implying... that Ron sacrificed his freedom, to deal with Misty, so he could get to the truth. but I never believed it. MOO.

 

[Maia]

I'm thinking they know there is going to be a trial. JMO

I agree, if Ron knew anything about his daughters abduction and probable death and withheld it this long he's not a very loving father. JMO

This isn't a question for you Maia specifically but wouldn't you (meaning the vast majority of parents) be willing to go to jail in order to secure the conviction of your daughters murderer?
What's been lost here, I think, is that Ron's testimony is now tainted. He's received a plea deal and that will be brought up by the defense. JMO

BBM

SD, I know you didn't ask me specifically, but I would like to give you my answer. Yes, I do believe that the vast majority of parents would be willing to go to jail to secure the conviction for their daughter's murderer. But the vast majority of parents that I believe you and I are talking about are not illegal drug users and/or drug dealers. This was a missing child case at the time and was not classified as a homicide until over a year later. Up until Jan 2010, RC, MC, ToC, and the others continued their lifestyle as if nothing had happened. It wasn't until faced with serious jail time that RC came forward to bargain with information that should have been turned over to the LE 18 months prior.

Actually, LOL, I think that the facts of my last sentence answers your question better than I did to begin with. All JMO

 

[bessie]

I'm thinking they know there is going to be a trial. JMO



I agree, if Ron knew anything about his daughters abduction and probable death and withheld it this long he's not a very loving father. JMO



BBM

This isn't a question for you Maia specifically but wouldn't you (meaning the vast majority of parents) be willing to go to jail in order to secure the conviction of your daughters murderer?

What's been lost here, I think, is that Ron's testimony is now tainted. He's received a plea deal and that will be brought up by the defense. JMO

I'm pretty sure the defense will use Ron's silence to impeach his testimony. I posted in another thread some possible reasons the prosecution will present to establish credibility with the jury. Some will buy it; some won't. But tainted testimony is better than no testimony, in most cases. If there is other evidence to support it, the jury will have to consider it.

 

[doobiedoo52]

After listening to the plea deal details read in court, I have to say I agree with the person who said there was not a single mention of Haleigh's case. I am more apt to believe that RC has helped them in getting to some of the main players in a drug bust--that may not have even happened yet. He had a source other than the UC. He mentioned the person as having to get prescriptions from the VA. I would be willing to bet he had several of these sources. We have no way of knowing yet how many upcoming cases that are drug related could possibly be part of this plea agreement. Or maybe there is a big bust about to come down. It would be logical to think that Shoemaker may have thrown in the Haleigh time to throw someone off guard as to what he is really going to testify about. Just a thought.

 

[lonetraveler]

I think by "Collateral damage" Shoemaker meant that the LE sting focus was targeting Misty and Tommy, and not Ron. There was no implication that Ron was working undercover.

Collateral damage is damage that is unintended or incidental to the intended outcome.

I've got the sick feeling that Ron will slide right through as usual on this entire case and LE will most likely end up making an apology to him. His (Ron's) actions will be explained away that Ron was trying to help LE and got caught up in the arrest. This really stinks..........

 

[kant]

I've got the sick feeling that Ron will slide right through as usual on this entire case and LE will most likely end up making an apology to him. His (Ron's) actions will be explained away that Ron was trying to help LE and got caught up in the arrest. This really stinks..........

I feel you, LT, but I'm not giving up yet bc luckily karma is a bee-otch. (karma ...and gravity heh heh)

(ok i'll see myself out.)

 

[Bobbisangel]

He doesn't have to be hiding anything. He has a lawyer whose job is to get the best possible outcome for Ron, which would include putting the people who killed his daughter in jail and spending as little time in prison as possible. If LE was offering a plea deal, he would have been stupid to turn it down, given the potential 90-year sentence for selling a few hundred pills. Really, if LE has eliminated him as a suspect in Haleigh's murder, then I can't see a reason in the world for him to do life in prison. And as long as he testifies, and her killers go to prison and stay there, that's the best that we can hope for now. There is no contradiction between wanting justice for his daughter and allowing his lawyer to negotiate the best terms on the drug sentence (and perhaps immunity from prosecution if he has to discuss other crimes while testifying against Misty--e.g., other drug sales, etc.). Ron after all has TWO children. Why would we hope that he just abandons Junior and makes no attempt to salvage some opportunity to be a father to him? Ron has a responsibility to fight for as much of his own life as he can get. The great irony here is that, at last, Ron Cummings is working inside the system, taking his consequences, following the legal process, going to prison without complaint--and still that isn't enough. He's the only human in American who shouldn't take an offered plea deal because the public thinks he should pay for supposedly putting a rat in a mailbox? Marrying Misty? Who does life in prison for that kind of stuff?

Ron is not a suspect in Haleigh's murder. The people who are suspects are pointing the finger at each other. If he isn't a suspect, he's a victim, and I for one think he is already enduring the worst possible punishment for his immaturity, arrogance and bad choices. But whatever he did or didn't do, Ron did not invite people into his home to assault, kidnap and murder his daughter. That puts him into a very different category from those who attacked a little girl in her own bed and dumped her in a river or landfill or whatever story the Croslins are peddling today.

Thank You...I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Bobbisangel]

I do see your point, but what I dont understand is -- what is the motive to offer a plea deal (or dropped charges, as the case may be) on testimony that would be already forthcoming?

TIA
.

The Pros must think Ron has something worthwhile to say or he wouldn't have agreed to the plea deal. They don't give plea deals on a whim.

 

[dodie20]

The Pros must think Ron has something worthwhile to say or he wouldn't have agreed to the plea deal. They don't give plea deals on a whim.

actually, when it's all said & done, I hope Ron has something VERY worthwhile to say, & it puts a quick end to this whole thing. I just think it's a shame that he didn't say it sooner, & he used that information as a way to help himself.

 

[Whisperer]

The Pros must think Ron has something worthwhile to say or he wouldn't have agreed to the plea deal. They don't give plea deals on a whim.

Yes, they do. It is done everyday. Almost everyone gets a deal if they don't take it to trial.