8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway #2

[nosysw]

I am back, I was without power here in NYC from Hurricane Sandy.

My conclusions are objective and based on the documentary, "There's Something Wrong With Aunt Diane." It's also based on articles I have read about Diane being confrontational in McDonalds.

People who work in restaurants do sick things when customers complain. They spit in food and guess what? A cook urinated on my friend's meal in a diner.

Yes, there was alcohol in her system. It could be that she thought the vodka was water. And the marijuana could have been from weeks ago. It stays in your system.

I choose to believe she did not get drunk before that ride home. Even if she were a raging alcoholic I would not believe she would drink that much alcohol with all those kids in the car.

There is no evidence to show she was psychotic or that much of a drinker that she could not wait until she got home to pour herself a stiff drink.

Glad you got your power back on- still waiting for my cable and phone!

Above BBM:

Why would she think that? If she did, wouldn't she have been surprised enough to spit it out, gag, whatever, not continue to drink it to the point that a large quantity would be left in her stomach?

Why do you think she wouldn't have drunk much with the kids in the car because she wasn't known to be a raging alcoholic? Many people who are not "raging alcoholics" drink and get into accidents and worse. There is not that much evidence about many closet alcoholics. That is why they are called that.

I don't understand why you choose to believe things about Diane that are contrary to the reported evidence, not knowing her yourself.

 

[JakeWestSide]

I think something happened. Everything after that: her vomiting on the side of the highway, the vodka drinking, her driving for hours was all a result of one pivotal event. She maybe thought the vodka was water and gulped it because she was in a very disoriented state.

I choose to believe what I do not because I knew her but because of how her friends and colleagues presented her character in that documentary. And I do not think she would have done it with kids in the car. She was a perfectionist type of mother. She never had any DUIs. There is no history of this to support those opinions of what happened that day.

I am not arguing with you and I don't have to "win" or convince you. It's just my opinion.

 

[nervous_nellie]

i could maybe entertain the idea of a psychotic break of some sort..but i believe what the toxicology/autopsy report indicated. jmo

 

[nosysw]

I think something happened. Everything after that: her vomiting on the side of the highway, the vodka drinking, her driving for hours was all a result of one pivotal event. She maybe thought the vodka was water and gulped it because she was in a very disoriented state.

I choose to believe what I do not because I knew her but because of how her friends and colleagues presented her character in that documentary. And I do not think she would have done it with kids in the car. She was a perfectionist type of mother. She never had any DUIs. There is no history of this to support those opinions of what happened that day.

I am not arguing with you and I don't have to "win" or convince you. It's just my opinion.

I apologize if I sounded argumentative, that was not my intent. Nor to convince you as you are entitled to your opinion.

I, too, believe there may have been a pivotal event...possibly after many years of build up of frustration, unhappiness whatever. No one knows what goes on in any given family.

I believe something triggered the horrendous series of events leading to this tragedy. I just don't believe whatever that was mitigated Diane's culpability. And, I don't believe those discussing Diane's character really had the slightest clue of what she was really capable of when she was pushed to a breaking point.

 

[JakeWestSide]

I don't believe she was unhappy or pushed to a breaking point. I think she was very happy.

She had a good job and two children who she took care of like a perfectionist. Even if she had an argument with her husband, I believe she would have gone home and continued the argument.

I do not believe she was in a bad emotional state and chose to get drunk at that time of the morning and have 10 drinks. That's psychotic behavior to me. It's also more than just irresponsible to stop and smoke a joint when you have to get a car load of kids home.

Maybe I would have believed one drink, but that amount of alcohol? It's the behavior of a totally deranged person, and I do not believe she was.

Something happened.... Honestly, I joined this forum to hope to find others who believe as I do and who would maybe all work together to try to figure it out.

Nobody here is interested in that?

 

[nervous_nellie]

im not against that --- but for me there is no refuting the science of her toxicology report. if she did not drink the alcohol how did it wind up in her system? i mean no disrespect, i just really cannot come up with any other plausible scenario of how the alcohol got into her system... jmho

 

[redkatrampant]

Ahh yes. This is why we cannot stop talking about it and it you were like me thinking about it at times. The most logical answer is that she snapped. She was pissed because her husband was a dolt who never helped her with the kids or the house even though she worked all the time. She was pissed she had to cart her brother's kids to their dance practice or whatever extracurricular activity she was taking them too. She was pissed she had no time for herself. I have 3 kids 8 and under. Just got one out of diapers this year. I work full time in a supervisor position. Usually withholding sex because I am too tired from work and taking care of kids and house works for my husband and he gets the message. As a cop he is home more during the week. She made a selfish, horrible decision that screwed up the lives of 4 families.
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WOW. Attacking the post and not the poster. This post attacks her decisions.
She made unhealthy decisions. And withholding sex is a sign of a healthy psyche.

I so often look at some of these situations and think *There but for the Grace of God...*

 

[Nova]

I don't believe she was unhappy or pushed to a breaking point. I think she was very happy.

She had a good job and two children who she took care of like a perfectionist. Even if she had an argument with her husband, I believe she would have gone home and continued the argument.

I do not believe she was in a bad emotional state and chose to get drunk at that time of the morning and have 10 drinks. That's psychotic behavior to me. It's also more than just irresponsible to stop and smoke a joint when you have to get a car load of kids home.

Maybe I would have believed one drink, but that amount of alcohol? It's the behavior of a totally deranged person, and I do not believe she was.

Something happened.... Honestly, I joined this forum to hope to find others who believe as I do and who would maybe all work together to try to figure it out.

Nobody here is interested in that?

Jake, I agree that judgments as to whether someone none of us knew was "happy" or "unhappy" are problematic.

But even if you ignore Diane's BAC level because you don't trust that test, you still have the alcohol in her urine and a large quantity still undigested in her stomach.

Those are facts. You can't undo them with the backwards logic you seem to employ above: namely, only a deranged person would drink that much alcohol (a debatable assertion); Diane was not deranged (how would we know?); therefore she did not willingly drink the alcohol.

What, exactly, is it that you want us to join together to figure out?

 

[redheadedgal]

And the marijuana could have been from weeks ago. It stays in your system.

but it does not stay in your blood for very long:

But THC is detectable in the blood for a short time, usually a few hours, because it is rapidly metabolized into molecules known as metabolites.

Because marijuana stays in the bloodstream for a short time, blood tests for marijuana are usually not used, except in the case of automobile accidents and some roadside sobriety check points.

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/marijuana_test.htm


In general, THC only remains detectable in the blood of cannabis consumers for a few hours (though low, residual levels may be detected in chronic smokers for up to 12-24+ hours if more sensitive technology is used).

http://norml.org/legal/drug-testing/item/the-abcs-of-marijuana-and-drug-testing


THC concentrations in the blood of occasional marijuana users quickly fall below limits of drug testing within 8 to 12 hours of use.

http://drug.addictionblog.org/how-long-does-marijuana-weed-pot-thc-stay-in-your-system/

I chose to believe what I do not because I knew her but because of how her friends and colleagues presented her character in that documentary. And I do not think she would have done it with kids in the car. She was a perfectionist type of mother. She never had any DUIs. There is no history of this to support those opinions of what happened that day.

A neighbor, Bob McClellan, a 59-year-old substance- and alcohol-abuse counselor, said people were having difficulty understanding how the woman they knew could have been the woman in the car.

“In my business, the secret lives of drinkers will sometimes astound you,” he said. “Sometimes even the family doesn’t know.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/nyregion/06crash.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[noZme]

extracted from JakeWestSide's post # 1569
"I do not believe she was in a bad emotional state and chose to get drunk at that time of the morning and have 10 drinks. That's psychotic behavior to me. It's also more than just irresponsible to stop and smoke a joint when you have to get a car load of kids home.

Maybe I would have believed one drink, but that amount of alcohol? It's the behavior of a totally deranged person, and I do not believe she was. "


In my opinion, her behavior was alcoholic, not psychotic. At some point her thinking
was clouded by the booze. The evidence of her consumption is indisputable. She was not deranged, she was drunk/stoned.Her actions were indeed irresponsible.

If you read back through this thread, you'll find this is the prevailing opinion. What happened that day defies rationality. It is unlikely you will find anyone who believes as you do.... but I welcome you to WS & look forward to more debate.
.

 

[Davereid]

It may not be a healthy psyche but I never claimed it was. It may be manipulative but sometimes I am just exhausted because of work, stress, etc. and he will help me out more. Be it healthy or not I do not slam down vodka, smoke weed and drive like a maniac the wrong way down a highway with kids in the car. Women are hormonal and emotional creatures sometimes we snap, sometimes we are moody and sometimes we use manipulation on our men. Even though the DSM tries to determine the difference between a healthy psyche or not most people have their issues in some way or another but we all do not act in ways dangerous to other people.
I am sorry but I did not really understand the intent of your post toward mine but I appreciate the discourse.
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[Davereid]

extracted from JakeWestSide's post # 1569
"I do not believe she was in a bad emotional state and chose to get drunk at that time of the morning and have 10 drinks. That's psychotic behavior to me. It's also more than just irresponsible to stop and smoke a joint when you have to get a car load of kids home.

Maybe I would have believed one drink, but that amount of alcohol? It's the behavior of a totally deranged person, and I do not believe she was. "


In my opinion, her behavior was alcoholic, not psychotic. At some point her thinking
was clouded by the booze. The evidence of her consumption is indisputable. She was not deranged, she was drunk/stoned.Her actions were indeed irresponsible.

If you read back through this thread, you'll find this is the prevailing opinion. What happened that day defies rationality. It is unlikely you will find anyone who believes as you do.... but I welcome you to WS & look forward to more debate.
.

I agree about alcoholic. I think her husband downplayed her drinking for the press and perhaps because in his own definition of what constitutes and alcoholic her level of drinking and probably his was not problematic. They were on a vacation so maybe they hit the booze hard the night before. She may have even been legally drunk on the way home. Every time you drink one drink your BAC will peak at one hour and begin to come down so you need an hour per drink for alcohol to metabolize through your system and not be considered drunk. A person who drinks multiple drinks a night and for a long time may sleep somewhere for a while yet when they leave still blow over the legal limit. I had a friend who got a DWI after drinking a lot one night and late in to the night. They spent the night at the place where they partied but on their way home got pulled and blew over the limit. Vodka may be just what they liked to drink but I have found true alcoholics prefer vodka because for some reason they think it lessens the alcohol smell. It does not. So she may have been drinking after a hangover where she was still a little buzzed and feeling like crap and thought the alcohol would lessen the hangover symptoms.
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[nosysw]

I agree about alcoholic. I think her husband downplayed her drinking for the press and perhaps because in his own definition of what constitutes and alcoholic her level of drinking and probably his was not problematic. T

Above snipped and BBM:

My mom was an alcoholic. My siblings and I didn't realize it until we were young adults but it was clear to all of us at that point. When I tried to discuss it with my father, because I was concerned that she was also taking anti-depressants and other medications, he blew me off completely. He said I was being dramatic and that by my definition of an alcoholic, he must have been one too, because he binge drank in college with his frat buddies. Within 5 or 6 years of that conversation my mom died suddenly at 59. Probably from an aneurism leading to a heart attack but no autopsy was done. Denial runs deep. Especially if the person doing the denying is fairly happy with the status quo and doesn't want to upset the apple cart for lack of a better metaphor...

ETA: My father is morbidly obese. I think the unspoken (and probably subconscious) deal was 'don't get on me about my weight and I won't get on you about your drinking'. Who knows what issues of his own Daniel may not have wanted to address?

 

[JakeWestSide]

OK here's a question. The McDonald's employees were interviewed and they all said she did not appear drunk there. She argued with them and was confrontational, but was not drunk.

So she then had to drink AFTER McDonald's. She was seen pulling over trying to vomit AFTER McDonald's.

So something happened to then cause her to want to take drinks. She was not with Daniel in the same car.

So if something happened between them to make her want to drink, why wouldn't she have taken a drink BEFORE they went to McDonald's?

Was she getting all worked up over something that happened that morning at the campgrounds and then decided to drink after McDonald's to dull her feelings? And the liquor would not have made her want to vomit so quickly after consumption. Her nausea was more like a quick reaction to some ingested toxic substance.

By the way I appreciate the feedback... because my opinion is open to change if I read posts that make some good points. So thanks.

 

[Davereid]

If the theory she was an alcoholic and still drunk from the night before is a viable option she may have been able to not sway like she was drunk or slur. I would think the fact she was arguing with McDonald's employees may be an indication she was under the influence. Alcoholics can talk fine, walk fine and seem fine but the removal of inhibitions are still there. My husband pulled this woman over for a broken tail-light. No swerving or any indication she was driving drunk. He smelled alcohol and on the road she blew a .54. The legal limit is under .08. A novice drinker could die starting at .20. This woman was an accomplished alcoholic.
As for arguing at MD's; everyone has gotten an order wrong at McDonald's at some time. You take it up there, they fix it, and rarely do you need to argue. The people who argue are often under the influence of something. I once watched this show "World's wildest videos" and this drunk girl at Myrtle Beach or somewhere got mad and tore the entire restaurant up.

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[KrazyKatLadi]

OK here's a question. The McDonald's employees were interviewed and they all said she did not appear drunk there. She argued with them and was confrontational, but was not drunk.

So she then had to drink AFTER McDonald's. She was seen pulling over trying to vomit AFTER McDonald's.

So something happened to then cause her to want to take drinks. She was not with Daniel in the same car.

So if something happened between them to make her want to drink, why wouldn't she have taken a drink BEFORE they went to McDonald's?

Was she getting all worked up over something that happened that morning at the campgrounds and then decided to drink after McDonald's to dull her feelings? And the liquor would not have made her want to vomit so quickly after consumption. Her nausea was more like a quick reaction to some ingested toxic substance.

By the way I appreciate the feedback... because my opinion is open to change if I read posts that make some good points. So thanks.

Speaking as a recovering alcoholic, people cannot always tell if someone is drunk. I spent years fooling people. Just because the people at MC D's didn't think she was drunk proves nothing.

I've seen the documentary and believe Diane was still drunk from the night before and thought a few drinks and a toke would make her feel better to drive home. Once an alcoholic gets going, its hard to stop or tell how much you've had. Maybe she was driving around hoping to sober up before getting home. Who knows?

I dont believe anyone slipped her something or any sudden medical problem. She was drunk and high. It was her fault all those innocent people died. I wish folks would quit making excuses for her.

 

[angelmom]

I don't think that the employees of your local McDonald's are necessarily the best judge of someone's sobriety - I'll trust the blood and urine tests for that. And I agree that being argumentative and confrontational are likely signs of her being inebriated.

As someone who has had long term close contact with an alcoholic, I will say that many alcoholics hold their liquor very well. There are times when even a very suspicious mind might not be 100% certain whether the person is drunk or just being a jerk.

Being a mom with a bunch of little kids in a minivan made people less likely to assume she was drunk and more likely to assume she was tired/irritated/fed up. But sometimes we see what we want to see.

I firmly believe that is the case here. As a previous poster mentioned, if this had been a father we would have no trouble lambasting him and believing every bad thing. The fact that this was a mom of young kids makes some unwilling to believe the worst. But, in fact, mothers make horrific choices all the time.

Giving birth does not make one immune to addiction, stupidity, greed, lust, or jealousy.

 

[noZme]

Remember she was secretive. Diane may have taken "a bite of the hair off the dog" first thing that morning & a couple more too.

I can dismiss the owner of the campground not detecting odor. When they said their goodbyes, they were outdoors, probably a comfortable standing distance apart & Diane may have not yet been exhibiting any behavior that would have tipped-off the other lady. But, I think it is very likely that Diane was already into drinking what would become a devastating amount of liquor.

Was the scene at McDonalds typical of her behavior or was it fueled by alcohol? Wouldn't there be an opportunity to drink a little more while the children were on the playground?


I do not want to think that anyone would be so evil as to cause what happened on purpose. I think she drank & smoked, a little more, a little more, never a problem before... then she was blitzed.

Her brother probaby never thought "something wrong" was drunk out of her mind. Who would expect a mother to have taken such a risk? The children must have been petrified & the gentlemen in the other vehicle were certainly innocent victims.... so much loss. I blame Diane's stupid choices for this tragedy.

 

[Nova]

OK here's a question. The McDonald's employees were interviewed and they all said she did not appear drunk there. She argued with them and was confrontational, but was not drunk.

So she then had to drink AFTER McDonald's. She was seen pulling over trying to vomit AFTER McDonald's.

So something happened to then cause her to want to take drinks. She was not with Daniel in the same car.

So if something happened between them to make her want to drink, why wouldn't she have taken a drink BEFORE they went to McDonald's?

Was she getting all worked up over something that happened that morning at the campgrounds and then decided to drink after McDonald's to dull her feelings? And the liquor would not have made her want to vomit so quickly after consumption. Her nausea was more like a quick reaction to some ingested toxic substance.

By the way I appreciate the feedback... because my opinion is open to change if I read posts that make some good points. So thanks.

Jake, you are basing your reasoning on the false (IMO) premise that if others say Diane "didn't appear drunk", she cannot have been drinking. But many of us have spoken of relatives (and I'll add my father here) who drank quite heavily without ever showing signs that most people associate with drunkenness.

Yes, Diane may have been drunk from the night before.

Yes, she may have started drinking before she was seen by the camp manager or the staff at McDonald's. (Frankly, her belligerence with the staff at McD's is suspect to me. What sober person bothers to hassle fast-food workers? How often does that actually work?)

Nonetheless, she still may not have "appeared drunk". That doesn't mean she didn't start drinking until later.

All we know is that strangers working a busy counter didn't see anything in Diane's behavior that they associated with drunkenness. Since she wasn't tested until hours later, we can't assume she was stone-cold sober at any point that morning.

(P.S. When I said above that your logic was "backwards", I didn't mean it as an insult. I just meant that you were starting with your conclusion and then reasoning back to your premises, rather than the other way around.)

 

[JakeWestSide]

While I understand there are "closet drinkers," I do not think Diane was one.

She had a very good job and was a mother who was a perfectionist. There were no signs at all.

Yes, I understand the toxicology report. But, I think something happened. What happened is a mystery.