A Mother's Unconditional Love

[magic-cat]

I have been on this forum for alittle while now and for the most part I have bitten my tongue I havent said anything because quiet honestly it isnt something Im proud of and its something I usually keep hidden because its painful to talk about. But after reading your post and reading through other post on this thread I felt the need to shed some light on how my family handle their lost and their love for my brother.I think thats one of the biggest reason I was drawn to this case because I look at KC and see glimpes of my brother all over again. Little over ten years ago my brother murdered my 2yr old niece in a fit of rage.My parents loved my brother and there grandchild and were totally heart broken.Our family will always love my brother but we dont love what he has become. We did not lie for him and we didnt cover for him. It was hard for me but it was even harder for my parents.But as much as my parents loved my brother they still wanted justice for my niece. Mind you that my brothers case never got the news this one did but even if it would of the end result would of been the same.That justice for my niece was always first in our minds and in are hearts.I asked my parents after my brother was sentenced to life in prison how they felt. And this is what they said.We love our children and our grandchildren more then anything is this world but sometimes life isnt fair and we are thrown into to horrible nightmares where we must make a choice on where we stand with this world and with the lord.Sometimes tough love is the only way.Our grandchild didnt have a choice on how her life was ended but our son did.And even though we love him more then life itself he chose his path in life and now he must be punished by the law and our lord.Im not saying what the A's have done is wrong or that the way my family handle it was better but I thought i would shed some light on a family that been through the same nightmare as the A's. My heart aches for the A's because I do know what it feels like to be in this nightmare and I never stopped loving my brother but I personally never stopped wanting justice for my niece because she deserved that much for what she went though to leave this world.Sorry for the long rant and I hope no one looks at me any different then before but I just felt I need to say it.

Thank you cuppy so much for sharing that with us here. Real life experiences are exactly what we need to be sharing. The only difference in how I will look at you will be with much MORE respect and admiration! My deepest sympathies to your family, and to you. May the Spirit of comfort and peace find a place inside of your pain. Blessings to you and yours.

 

[Paintr]

I hear ya, but WHY would Cindy only give a superficial substitute of love? What would be the underlying cause of this. Speaking as a mother, my love for my children came quite naturally.

This post is perfect to illustrate where some of the problems and confusions lie. People tend to project their own love and assume that that same love exists between this family.

Maybe Cindy did not love KC. KC was a huge problem in Cindy's life. She stole, lied, screamed, gave her Caylee then took her back. Maybe Cindy was not enraptured with her daughter. George was also a problem to this family. He and Cindy had problems, both children spoke about him very badly. Maybe love between CA and GA had faded away long ago. Maybe Lee was glad to move to his own dwelling to escape this conflict. KC didn't seem to love anyone. If she received so much love from her family I find it dificult to believe that she wouldn't reflect at least a bit of it back.

There could be many reasons for this family being united in the face of legal or public scrutiny. Love is only one such reason.

 

[kageykaren]

Thank you cuppy so much for sharing that with us here. Real life experiences are exactly what we need to be sharing. The only difference in how I will look at you will be with much MORE respect and admiration! My deepest sympathies to your family, and to you. May the Spirit of comfort and peace find a place inside of your pain. Blessings to you and yours.

Thankyou for sharing from a siblings point of view. I feel siblings grief is overlooked at times when a family member has created a crime. Siblings tend to fade into the background unable to share how that crime effected them. The shame tends to silence the grief. Your so brave to share!

 

[magic-cat]

The ONLY problem with that is that a mother has a special sense, or at least I do, that tells us when our child is being dishonest. I can hear a lie shouting from my children as surely as if they had screamed I AM LYING rather than whatever lie words they were saying. When one believes, one does not have to continually change their story, evade turning over potential evidence, and outright lie themselves. When one believes then they believe the story as presented and accept it at face value. That is not what has happened here. They have not shown that they believe Casey is innocent. They have shown that they will swallow any lies she tells them hook line and sinker to ALLOW themselves to live in the delusion that she is innocent.

 

[Starfish]

I am an only child & have absolutely no doubt in my mind that my mother loves me more than anything in this world. Hubs & I do not have kids (my parents granddaughter is a mini schnauzer) but I know, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that if I killed my child, their grandchild, intentionally, they would erase me from their lives.

There is simply no excuse or explaination for what was done to Caylee, there would be no way that as her mother I could forgive or stand behind her. My focus would be on my dead grandchild and seeing that justice was done for her, my killer child could rot in jail & then burn in hell for all I would care.....

 

[nitasch]

This is why I love this place....(having lurked for months) the members are so open and willing to dig into their hearts and minds to try and relate to what the people involved personally in this case are going through.

I have six kids, from 25 to 9 yrs old.... luckily, I have never had to go through any serious problems with them (law enforcement related), so I cannot completely relate to what the A's are going through.

However, I can understand how from the beginning, the A's did not want to believe that KC could have harmed CMA... it was much more of a comfort to them to believe in what KC was claiming than to face the fact their beloved toddler was gone. Facing the facts was too heartbreaking...basically they tried to convince themselves that KC was telling the truth, so they did not have to face the devastation they ultimately had to deal with.

I have no doubt they love KC...she is their child...and maybe somehow, they have convinced themselves that it was God's plan for CMA...or maybe they have forgiven KC and now are focusing on helping her through the pending trial.

After GA melted down, it is resonable to think the family needed to accept what happened, and find it in themselves to forgive....for their own well being.

 

[elementary]

Patty, just a guess, but if you see your children as an extension of yourself and not a separate entity to be nurtured, you fall into this category. CA probably did the best she could, given her psychology. Who knows how she was parented? What is her definition of love? How selfish is she? Whatever she did I wouldn't call it healthy, and it didn't translate to the recipient as love. In my view it isn't love at all.

Heh. You must be my (mutually evil) twin! You took the words right out of my mouth!

I'm guessing Cindy is narcissistic, so the simplest answer for me is that narcissists are too self-absorbed to be able to give "love" except to themselves. Narcissists only see others as an extension of themselves; there are no boundaries. What "love" they do feel is really love for their own image reflected in their possessions. When she cuts the perp any slack in essence she is cutting herself the slack. If the perp is "mother of the year", then so is Cindy...etc. etc.

When Cindy was doing her little speech of love to the perp, I discovered she has hard eyes. Her voice was suffused with love and sorrow quite dramatically, but her eyes were like marbles. I was really surprised. She had almost had me convinced.

 

[Starfish]

I have been on this forum for alittle while now and for the most part I have bitten my tongue I havent said anything because quiet honestly it isnt something Im proud of and its something I usually keep hidden because its painful to talk about. But after reading your post and reading through other post on this thread I felt the need to shed some light on how my family handle their lost and their love for my brother.I think thats one of the biggest reason I was drawn to this case because I look at KC and see glimpes of my brother all over again. Little over ten years ago my brother murdered my 2yr old niece in a fit of rage.My parents loved my brother and there grandchild and were totally heart broken.Our family will always love my brother but we dont love what he has become. We did not lie for him and we didnt cover for him. It was hard for me but it was even harder for my parents.But as much as my parents loved my brother they still wanted justice for my niece. Mind you that my brothers case never got the news this one did but even if it would of the end result would of been the same.That justice for my niece was always first in our minds and in are hearts.I asked my parents after my brother was sentenced to life in prison how they felt. And this is what they said.We love our children and our grandchildren more then anything is this world but sometimes life isnt fair and we are thrown into to horrible nightmares where we must make a choice on where we stand with this world and with the lord.Sometimes tough love is the only way.Our grandchild didnt have a choice on how her life was ended but our son did.And even though we love him more then life itself he chose his path in life and now he must be punished by the law and our lord.Im not saying what the A's have done is wrong or that the way my family handle it was better but I thought i would shed some light on a family that been through the same nightmare as the A's. My heart aches for the A's because I do know what it feels like to be in this nightmare and I never stopped loving my brother but I personally never stopped wanting justice for my niece because she deserved that much for what she went though to leave this world.Sorry for the long rant and I hope no one looks at me any different then before but I just felt I need to say it.

Thank you so much for sharing your story Cuppy, I know it took a lot for you to tell us something so personal and also so painful. It's obvious that you & all your family still feel the pain & ache for the beautiful little child that you lost, my heart goes out to you all.

As I heard on NG last night, families in these types of situations are just totally torn apart because they hate the crime but love the killer....what a terrible place to be.

Again, thank you for sharing Cuppy & giving us some insight to being in the nightmare the A's are living.

 

[itsyourworld]

Heh. You must be my (mutually evil) twin! You took the words right out of my mouth!

I'm guessing Cindy is narcissistic, so the simplest answer for me is that narcissists are too self-absorbed to be able to give "love" except to themselves. Narcissists only see others as an extension of themselves; there are no boundaries. What "love" they do feel is really love for their own image reflected in their possessions. When she cuts the perp any slack in essence she is cutting herself the slack. If the perp is "mother of the year", then so is Cindy...etc. etc.

When Cindy was doing her little speech of love to the perp, I discovered she has hard eyes. Her voice was suffused with love and sorrow quite dramatically, but her eyes were like marbles. I was really surprised. She had almost had me convinced.

that veil always slips. i think you're spot on with cindy forgiving herself when she pretends to forgive casey, and praising herself when she pretends to praise casey. casey can't be a bad person because that would mean cindy is. (which is not to say i no longer think cindy is a vile human being, mind you.) she is nothing unless she is her possessions. all the talk about CMA yesterday, someone said that the one CMA being proud of lee was directed at cindy and i agree with that. i'll just bet he's crawling to his mother right now to retain her love. cindy's biggest weapon is to take her love away from her child(ren) and he's seen what that has done to casey. i'd say he's learned his lessons well. unconditional, my aunt fanny.

 

[Pattymarie]

Heh. You must be my (mutually evil) twin! You took the words right out of my mouth!

I'm guessing Cindy is narcissistic, so the simplest answer for me is that narcissists are too self-absorbed to be able to give "love" except to themselves. Narcissists only see others as an extension of themselves; there are no boundaries. What "love" they do feel is really love for their own image reflected in their possessions. When she cuts the perp any slack in essence she is cutting herself the slack. If the perp is "mother of the year", then so is Cindy...etc. etc.

When Cindy was doing her little speech of love to the perp, I discovered she has hard eyes. Her voice was suffused with love and sorrow quite dramatically, but her eyes were like marbles. I was really surprised. She had almost had me convinced.

(bolded by me)
Very interesting observation. I didn't notice this while watching this yesterday, but I have noticed this very same thing about her eyes in the jailhouse visit tapes. But, I thought her eyes were more like narrowed, looking at Casey, like she didn't believe her.

 

[Mendara]

OK... I have had a hard time today... I am completely conflicted about all my emotions in this case. I have had a difficult time with A's behavior throughout it all.

But... Cindy is my age...with kids my age... and her message to Casey today blew me away. It was raw, it was beautiful, it was a call of love to her daughter, whom she so obviously loves, despite what she has done. I imagine myself in her shoes and doing the same thing. Or at least I hope I would.

Do you think she believes Casey is the murderer but still loves her despite it, or do you think she believes Casey is innocent?

I can totally respect a mother's unconditional love as I am a mother and I love my children and even if one were acused of something so horrid, i would ask the question: How could this happen? What pain was he or she in that she or he thought this was the answer?

I would still love my child. There is nothing wrong with that.

But in my mind I really believe Cindy thinks Casey is innocent and this is the reason for her very public display of love for her. She has every right to believe this, but I don't.

 

[LCoastMom]

Okay, delving into family things that I shouldn't but here goes: My sister was married to a pedophile, whom I despise... everything and anything about this man. Still do. Always will. My sister had a child with him, and after a huge chunk of denial (he raped a 10-year-old) she finally left him. I didn't ditch my sister because of the denial. I called the authorities behind her back, gave her encouragement to leave him while still calling authorities, etc. And even though I wanted to choke this man in his sleep, I felt bad for my sister's pathologic denial because the pain was just too intense for her. I knew it; I saw it. I don't blame my sister, stood by her no matter how painful it was for me, but did the right thing and called authorities (where the A's lacked). She is affected to this day, stunted and a hermit and a shell of a person because of the guilt she carried for living with a pedophile and not listening to her family. I will admit, I have some anger toward that, toward her even, but I still hold her in my heart. The pedophile: Damn him and wherever he may walk. BUT! His family is by his side, and as much as I hate it, that's where they are. Love is a tricky thing, and people have so many sides to humanity.

Your sister marrying a pedophile does not make her responsible for his sins. By marrying your sister, the pedophile who knew what he was and what he was about, made your sister another victim, she loved him therefore couldn't see him for who he truly is. He took advantage of of that love. The very vows that made them husband and wife, were nothing more than a tool for him to use against her. I can't imagine the pain and the damage this monster must have have wrecked on your sister.

Child molesters are a special kind of monster, they prey on the innocent, take advantage of any weakness and hurt anyone who trusts them. I hope your sister has been surrounded by true love from her family since removing herself from the grasp of this monster. I hope she gets enough help to regain her sense of self and her own sense of worth.

I wish this monster who did this to her would rot. Sorry, I know this is off topic. It struck a nerve with me the same way KC and her abuse of her family does.

 

[Breaking Heart]

THANK YOU FOR YOUR POST you are a beautiful person,
I was often feeling alone out there sticking up for the Anthony's.
I am totally understanding their love for Casey. TOTALLY
and that does not lesson their pain, or the fact that they deserve
more compassion, privacy and consideration.

I agree and will add that I don't think is lessens their love or devotion for Caylee either.

 

[Paintr]

Do you think she believes Casey is the murderer but still loves her despite it, or do you think she believes Casey is innocent?

I can totally respect a mother's unconditional love as I am a mother and I love my children and even if one were acused of something so horrid, i would ask the question: How could this happen? What pain was he or she in that she or he thought this was the answer?

I would still love my child. There is nothing wrong with that.

But in my mind I really believe Cindy thinks Casey is innocent and this is the reason for her very public display of love for her. She has every right to believe this, but I don't.

I can totally relate to an unconditional love but have a very hard time seeing such a love in any of these people. I also do not believe that Cindy believes that KC is innocent. I do not think that any of the A's sincerely believe that. People assume there is a total love for KC behind the A's actions. I have a different opinion. MOO

 

[Mom of Five]

I have always told my children that my love for them is unconditional. Whenever they did something wrong when they were little I told them that I would love them forever no matter what they ever did. There was even a circumstance that my daughter asked me, if any of her sisters or brothers could do anything that would make me so mad that I wouldn't love them and I said that even if they killed a person, I would still love them. I made sure to say that I would hold them accountable and that they would go to jail, but I emphasized again that I would still love them.
Maybe this is what Cindy is trying to say. I think that no matter what a child might do, it would be nearly impossible to stop loving them. Maybe Cindy is coming to grips with the possibility that Casey's guilty but thinks that perhaps it was an accident.l

 

[evergreen]

it's easy to have unconditional love for your daughter if you have FIRST convinced yourself beyond all reason that she has done nothing wrong.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

I have six children of my own, one daughter-in-law and one gorgeous grandchild, and I love them all dearly and deeply. I would lay down my life for any one of them if it would allow theirs to go on, and they all know it.

They ALL know who I am and they all know who THEY are and they know what I will and will not accept. If you are dumb enough to rob a bank, don't call me and expect any sympathy. If you are dumb enough to drive drunk, then you deserve to spend the night in jail. If you are dumb enough to KILL your child? Don't even bother trying to make ANY excuses to me about it.

I would DIE for them in TRUTH and in HONESTY and in HONOR, but in murder and lies and deceipt? I would not do the same. That may sound hard and it may sound cold, but here are the facts: Life is hard. Life is not fair. Sometimes things go wrong. Sometimes we cry. Sometimes people hurt us. Sometimes bad things happen. Sometimes we just break down. BUT-
when this happens, we do NOT react by murdering our children. We do not react by harming ourselves. We react by creating a solution from what appeared to be an unsolvable problem and we go on and we pick ourselves up and we continue down the road of trying to live and BE decent and BE honest and BE an upright citizen of planet earth.

I would love my child no matter what, but I would not CODDLE them in LIES and I certainly would not support them in the murder of my grandchild and they KNOW it. They know because they have been taught that you do not KILL anyone unless it is in self-defense or in the defense of your family or someone you love. If you are under attack and have no choice-defend yourself to the point of killing the other party if called for. There is no other excuse for murder, and there is no excuse for any mother who TRULY loves her child to support them the way that Casey has been. They could love the sinner without condoning the sin, but they cannot find this line. They have condoned her lies and her storytelling and allowed her to go on believing that's OK to do. It is NOT ok. Her daughter is dead and she is responsible and her mother who should love her most should also expect and extract the most from her.

One MAJOR component of LOVE is TRUTH, and that element is missing in all of this entire thing.

Great post.

 

[songline]

Now Songline you know that aint the truth :blowkiss:

Ohhh sweetie, Isaid often NOT always! :innocent:

 

[songline]

i agree and will add that i don't think is lessens their love or devotion for caylee either.

i agree with you too

 

[Pattymarie]

Do you think she believes Casey is the murderer but still loves her despite it, or do you think she believes Casey is innocent?

I can totally respect a mother's unconditional love as I am a mother and I love my children and even if one were acused of something so horrid, i would ask the question: How could this happen? What pain was he or she in that she or he thought this was the answer?

I would still love my child. There is nothing wrong with that.

But in my mind I really believe Cindy thinks Casey is innocent and this is the reason for her very public display of love for her. She has every right to believe this, but I don't.

I think, that after watching her at the memorial that, Cindy has finally come to a conscious acceptance of what she has known all long, but long denied...that her daughter killed her granddaughter. I think, now she is communicating to Casey that she will still love her. I even got the feeling (I am the only one?) that with this acceptance, Cindy is going to now try and "fix" and/or "cure" her daughter of whatever it was that made her murder. I think she still looks at Casey as a victim...but this time of whatever psychological malady that caused her to kill.