Sorry Voynich, (and pardon my bluntness), do it yourself. It will make for good practice.
A rather "personal" question about female part
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Sorry Voynich, (and pardon my bluntness), do it yourself. It will make for good practice.
Occam's razor offers a simpler solution:
http://www.healthystrokes.com/youngfem.html
A Young Woman's Guide to Masturbation
What is masturbation?
Masturbation is stimulation of the genitals for the purpose of advancing sexual arousal. Most people masturbate until they have an orgasm.
How do females masturbate?
Most females rub the area around the clitoris, the clitoris itself, or the inner labia. Some females insert fingers or objects into the vagina.
How many girls masturbate?
Half of teenage girls masturbate regularly, and 75 percent will do so before their 18th birthdays.
What about my hymen? Does masturbation hurt the hymen?
The hymen is a thin piece of skin that covers the vaginal opening in young women. It breaks and tears with sexual activity (and occasionally by non-sexual activity), generally over a long period of time. Masturbating with objects will tend to destroy your hymen. Most women have small pieces of hymen left until they give birth for the first time. The hymen has little to do with virginity. You can be a virgin and have almost no hymen left, or you can have a nearly intact hymen and not be a virgin.
http://www.drgreene.com/21_606.html
hen a parent catches a boy playing with his ears, questions may arise about ear infections. When a parent catches a boy playing with his stiff penis, subterranean concerns, anxieties, guilts, shames, questions and regrets often rumble and stir within -- even if we believe that it's normal behavior. Why do we have these complex and powerful feelings?
Most children begin to explore their genitals at about the same time they begin to look more like little boys and girls than like babies. Just when we are beginning to adjust to their not being babies anymore, we are confronted with the sight of our little boy fondling his erection or our little girl moving her hips up and down on top of her pillow with a glazed look in her eyes. How jarring!
A glimpse, a foreshadowing, of our little ones as sexually mature adolescents is superimposed on our image of them as innocent babies -- and all of this resonates with our complicated feelings about our own sexuality and innocence. No wonder this can elicit such concern!
If we take a step back, though, we can see that it makes sense that kids would want to explore their own bodies. When toilet learning becomes a focus of interest, we might anticipate that kids would also be curious about those parts of the body that have in the past been largely hidden under the diapers. Boys will play with their penises. Girls will finger their vaginas, and even insert objects. Many kids will reach down every chance they get. This exploration produces pleasurable feelings, as we are well aware.
Most, if not all, two year olds will engage in some degree of this behavior. Although many parenting books refer to this as childhood masturbation, I believe the term is misleading and unfortunate. Save the term masturbation for genital stimulation accompanied by sexual fantasy -- another challenge to face years down the road. Toddlers just do it because it feels good. Unselfconscious delight!
Babies will often tug on the genitals in much the same way they tug on the ears or toes. Toddlers, though, begin to recognize that the genitals are special. They are far more interesting and more fun than toes. For some children, playing with the genitals becomes a self-comforting behavior not unlike thumbsucking. For a few, this settles into a time-consuming habit that takes them away from other important play and development.
What is the wisest way for parents to approach genital play in their toddlers?
First, let the jarring foretaste of your child's future sexuality help you to cherish the moments of this brief first adolescence. Many people call this period the terrible twos, and wish for these days to soon end. While these months are difficult, they are also a brief, unrepeatable, precious time.
Next, let the foretaste remind you that one of our important responsibilities as parents is to teach our children about healthy sexuality. Of course, the many parents reading this will have wildly different ideas as to what constitutes healthy sexuality. They may even have very different ideas than they themselves did fifteen years ago. Whatever your values, you will want to communicate them to your children as the years go by. You will want to teach them that healthy sexuality is not dirty, nor is it cheap.
The key to passing on your values effectively is keeping the lines of respect and communication open.
I recently received a letter from a concerned couple who had spoken to their pastor about their son's habit of playing with himself. They said that their pastor "has not been able to find anyone who has ever even heard of a child this young, exhibiting this kind of behavior." They wanted me to tell them how to "properly assert the correct behavior." (The letter was semi-anonymous.)
My advice is not to try to stop this normal part of development.
If the genital play becomes and remains a consuming passion, I would look for and address underlying reasons, rather than trying to stop the behavior. Is the child tense and in extra need of self-comforting? Are people overreacting and thus reinforcing the habit? Is there a chronic, low-grade urinary tract infection or yeast infection? Is the child overstimulated and needing to soothe himself to withdraw? Is she understimulated and bored? Dealing with the cause will bring the behavior back to a level of enthusiasm that doesn't take away from other interests.
If you feel that the genital play should be reigned in a bit, then I recommend that when you see it happening you pretend to ignore what he is doing. Try to distract him with some new, engaging activity. Be as nonchalant as you can manage to be. (Rushing over out of breath is not subtle!) You want to communicate by your actions that he and his body are okay, but that there is also a whole world out there to discover and enjoy.
Directly trying to get toddlers to stop touching themselves is a battle you cannot win. You can't just put the objects of their attention up on a high shelf out of reach. If you actively discourage kids from self-exploration, or if you punish them for "masturbating," then genital play becomes a forbidden fruit.
Two things happen when something becomes a forbidden fruit. The fruit will be tasted when the opportunity arises, and people will hide what it is they have done. They will feel the need to be "semi-anonymous." This shameful hiding is the one outcome you don't want to produce.
All too quickly, our little ones will launch out on the turbulent seas of true adolescence. Only if we have maintained open communication and mutual respect can we offer any effective guidance during those critical years.
Alan Greene MD
Reviewed by: Khanh-Van Le-Bucklin MD & Rebecca Hicks M.D.
Originally published: March 02, 1998
Last reviewed and updated: May 2008
Give it a rest, already. JBR did not masturbate to the point of bleeding. And she did not masturbate herself to death.
6-year old girls do not engage auto-erotic asphyxiation.
This was not consensual sexual contact.
6-year old girls do not engage auto-erotic asphyxiation.
This was not consensual sexual contact.
Ravyn
New Member
voynich,I notice you keep using the one poster experience about being a Mom...Well as a Mom to 3 boys and 1 girl...Now when my children was old enough I would talk to them about certain things,and one of them was when they was taking baths,I would give them the wash cloth and tell them they are responsilble for washing their private parts...And this was done by the age of three...In this action I believe this is the reason why my son was able to tell me.he was being molested cause he knew it was wrong for anyone to touch him there....
azwriter
Sister Mary Wanna
Jane, I for one am not disturbed by your post. I agree with your post. From the very beginning I have believed Burke had been "playing doctor" with his little sister for some time. She was often in his room, alone and often went to his bed to sleep.
I can go further in the fact that I believe Patsy caught Burke messing with JonBenet. And Patsy must have been completely beside herself with shock. I can't imagine Patsy being "cool" about catching him. She probably went balistic over finding out what was going on. She probably freaked out and told them it was wrong and she was too embarassed to discuss it further with the two of them.
The night Jon Benet died, I think Patsy found Burke once again playing around with his little sister and she went wild lashing out.
Something occured that evening that made both parents cover up the real reason this little girl died. It very well could have been an accident, Patsy being so outraged she struck out at Burke with the flashlight (he'd been using) and accidently struck her daughter. But, Patsy and John could not take JonBenet to the emergency room because of the circumstances surrounding her death. They would need to explain the evidence of sexual abuse that would be discovered on their daughter after she was examined. Patsy could never do that to her son. So, she and John went to work to cover up what Burke had been up to. Thus the need to use the paint brush handle. Of course, this is JMO.
I have to say that is one of several very plausible theories, and it would explain a lot about this case. SOMEONE caused JB to bleed from her vagina. It had to have hurt a lot. A scream was heard. Then the head bash...with the flashlight a likely weapon.
But if it happened just like that, BR would have seen the head bash and seen his sister crumple to the floor, maybe even having seizures from that horrific blow. He seemed to placid about the whole thing, yet- he did seem to be a kid that was "in his own world" in a way. His statement to a psychiatrist within DAYS of his sister's murder (not just death. MURDER) he said he was trying to "get on with his life". Could he have distanced himself from it all to suppress what he had seen? Maybe. We will never know.
But if it happened just like that, BR would have seen the head bash and seen his sister crumple to the floor, maybe even having seizures from that horrific blow. He seemed to placid about the whole thing, yet- he did seem to be a kid that was "in his own world" in a way. His statement to a psychiatrist within DAYS of his sister's murder (not just death. MURDER) he said he was trying to "get on with his life". Could he have distanced himself from it all to suppress what he had seen? Maybe. We will never know.
txsvicki
Active Member
In browsing JBR forum on the day/or early morning after xmas, the day she died, I am appalled at a few posts describing what "might" have happened to JonBenet "if" she was being abused by her Dad. Not attacking a poster, but I don't like stumbling across something that reads like an excerpt very graphic novel for some reason. In answering the original question of this long thread, no I don't think it's possible that a little 6 year old knew about the feminine hygiene products or would attempt to use them on herself.
Ravyn
New Member
Only problem I see with the route voynich is going...If JonBenet did do this and as been put like touching herself,why would she asked for help after using the bathroom....And how did this expert come up with this...Done an 24/7 case study...
I, for one, am growing increasingly disturbed by the descriptions of what JB may have put in her vagina or done to herself or her imagined orgasms (complete with a group of men looking on). I have to wonder, as should we all, what is behind it. This is speculation- not fact, and nothing is served (especially not JB) by the continuing graphic descriptions of an imagined, but still horrific, molestation of a little girl.
Someone molested her. Fact. Whether or not some vaginal injuries MAY have been the result of childhood sexual exploration- something penetrated her that night with enough force to cause bleeding. News flash to some males out there- this does NOT feel good to any female. And no child would do that to herself.
Someone molested her. Fact. Whether or not some vaginal injuries MAY have been the result of childhood sexual exploration- something penetrated her that night with enough force to cause bleeding. News flash to some males out there- this does NOT feel good to any female. And no child would do that to herself.
Sophie
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A perfect post, Dee Dee.
I know we have to maintain a small degree of detachment in this case or we'd be unable to discuss any of the evidence but, ultimately, I believe that it is JonBenet and justice for the precious little angel that keep us here, not just an academic, professorial interest in the case. A child's first gentle self-exploration with a child's tiny hands is not what caused the injury on that dreadful night and is unlikely to have caused the older injuries to her vagina. In any event, it is well-documented that the vagina itself isn't the source of most sexual pleasure in grown women, let alone in little girls, so the scenarios involving orgasms etc that are being envisaged are not realistic.
I've been giving this a lot of thought, and I honestly debated with myself as to whether or not to post this. But I think it's worth it in a more general sense. So here goes.
Purely for the sake of argument, let's say (JUST SAY) that JB had been molested over time. It doesn't matter by whom. Now, voynich (who I sincerely hope is allowed to come back in the near future) seems to suggest that if it were an adult or even an older child doing it, it would have been perfectly obvious to everyone around JB. Well, as any expert in this field, both medical and legal, will tell you, "I wish it were that easy." In reality, literally every single thing has to go just right for one of these creeps to get caught.
Look at it like this. The crime of rape is one of the most horrific that can be committed. What makes it worse is that it's often not reported. One statistic I read claims that as much as 60% of all rapes in the US are not reported. A study by the British Broadcasting Company says that in some parts of the United Kingdom, it's 80%. When people hear that, they think, "how is that possible?"
Well, for some victims, it's pure fear. They figure that their attacker found them once, and if they report it that attacker will kill them before the cops can find him. But for the most part, it has to do with shame. Rape is a terrible, dehumanizing crime. It strips away the victims dignity and humanity. For many of them, that trauma is far too crushing to relive again in court, especially since there's the added possibility of being raked over the coals by the defense lawyer. That's provided that they even catch the right suspect. They just can't bear to go through it again. That's why rape is known as the only crime where you can be victimized twice.
And keep in mind, most of these victims were and are fully-grown women, theoretically in full control of their lives and faculties. Think how hard it must be for a small child. They done always know that it's wrong, especially if their victimizer is a loved one or trusted adult. They may think that's it's just another part of life and associate their abuse with love. Some children have even confessed to liking it because of that association, leading to tremendous shame later in life. More importantly, children are extremely easy to manipulate and control. That's why they make such good victims. They don't have the knowledge or the wisdom to combat an abuser, and most of them are conditioned to obey adults. In JB's case, that conditioning was even stronger, since she was actively trained to be obedient to adults as part of her pageant training. PR and Nedra had little tolerance for defiance.
Just something to think about, terrible as it is.
Purely for the sake of argument, let's say (JUST SAY) that JB had been molested over time. It doesn't matter by whom. Now, voynich (who I sincerely hope is allowed to come back in the near future) seems to suggest that if it were an adult or even an older child doing it, it would have been perfectly obvious to everyone around JB. Well, as any expert in this field, both medical and legal, will tell you, "I wish it were that easy." In reality, literally every single thing has to go just right for one of these creeps to get caught.
Look at it like this. The crime of rape is one of the most horrific that can be committed. What makes it worse is that it's often not reported. One statistic I read claims that as much as 60% of all rapes in the US are not reported. A study by the British Broadcasting Company says that in some parts of the United Kingdom, it's 80%. When people hear that, they think, "how is that possible?"
Well, for some victims, it's pure fear. They figure that their attacker found them once, and if they report it that attacker will kill them before the cops can find him. But for the most part, it has to do with shame. Rape is a terrible, dehumanizing crime. It strips away the victims dignity and humanity. For many of them, that trauma is far too crushing to relive again in court, especially since there's the added possibility of being raked over the coals by the defense lawyer. That's provided that they even catch the right suspect. They just can't bear to go through it again. That's why rape is known as the only crime where you can be victimized twice.
And keep in mind, most of these victims were and are fully-grown women, theoretically in full control of their lives and faculties. Think how hard it must be for a small child. They done always know that it's wrong, especially if their victimizer is a loved one or trusted adult. They may think that's it's just another part of life and associate their abuse with love. Some children have even confessed to liking it because of that association, leading to tremendous shame later in life. More importantly, children are extremely easy to manipulate and control. That's why they make such good victims. They don't have the knowledge or the wisdom to combat an abuser, and most of them are conditioned to obey adults. In JB's case, that conditioning was even stronger, since she was actively trained to be obedient to adults as part of her pageant training. PR and Nedra had little tolerance for defiance.
Just something to think about, terrible as it is.
Sophie
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Dave, forum won't let me quote you!
Anyway, regarding the under-reporting of rape, it's a hugely complex issue. I don't know what the US law definition of rape is but central to the English law definition is the notion of a man either knowing he doesn't have the woman's consent or not caring whether he has the woman's consent. This is especially problematic when women have been drinking. Many women have had sex while a tad worse for the wear and don't believe they have been raped although they could plausibly claim that they had in a court of law. I'm going to admit that I had a couple of experiences in my college days that were questionable. On the other hand, many women believe that because they were drunk, no one would believe them if they claimed they had been raped. Sentiment on this - which essentially relates to date rape and marital rape - varies and isn't clear-cut along gender lines. Also, while sex with a girl under the age of 16 is an offence, there is a 'similar age' defence and a real problem here is teenage girls deliberately getting pregnant for welfare/benefit reasons and they won't name their technical rapist for love nor money.
FWIW, I think I mentioned on here that my sister does some voluntary rape counselling at her university and she took a really dim view of Steve Thomas's description of a rape in Boulder, which she thought was standard patriarchal police reaction. I don't agree BTW but she couldn't read his book further than the rape page.
I think you are totally right about the JBR compliance issue. To me, JBR was thoroughly groomed and this could easily have extended to the sexual. Again, I believe one of the shrinks on the forums thought that JBR would almost certainly have ended up with a serious eating disorder because she was always under such pressure to perform and comply with others' wishes. Girls and women who suffer from eating disorders often feel that the only thing they can control for themselves is their food intake - hence the birth of the disorder. Girls and women who have been abused often have eating disorders, too.
Anyway, regarding the under-reporting of rape, it's a hugely complex issue. I don't know what the US law definition of rape is but central to the English law definition is the notion of a man either knowing he doesn't have the woman's consent or not caring whether he has the woman's consent. This is especially problematic when women have been drinking. Many women have had sex while a tad worse for the wear and don't believe they have been raped although they could plausibly claim that they had in a court of law. I'm going to admit that I had a couple of experiences in my college days that were questionable. On the other hand, many women believe that because they were drunk, no one would believe them if they claimed they had been raped. Sentiment on this - which essentially relates to date rape and marital rape - varies and isn't clear-cut along gender lines. Also, while sex with a girl under the age of 16 is an offence, there is a 'similar age' defence and a real problem here is teenage girls deliberately getting pregnant for welfare/benefit reasons and they won't name their technical rapist for love nor money.
FWIW, I think I mentioned on here that my sister does some voluntary rape counselling at her university and she took a really dim view of Steve Thomas's description of a rape in Boulder, which she thought was standard patriarchal police reaction. I don't agree BTW but she couldn't read his book further than the rape page.
I think you are totally right about the JBR compliance issue. To me, JBR was thoroughly groomed and this could easily have extended to the sexual. Again, I believe one of the shrinks on the forums thought that JBR would almost certainly have ended up with a serious eating disorder because she was always under such pressure to perform and comply with others' wishes. Girls and women who suffer from eating disorders often feel that the only thing they can control for themselves is their food intake - hence the birth of the disorder. Girls and women who have been abused often have eating disorders, too.
Sophie
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DeeDee, I have to admit that my reaction to parts of this thread was in itself a reaction to reading John Mark Karr yammering on about Madeleine McCann elsewhere and realising that the sick freak still reads the forums. I know we can't worry too much about who is reading the forum or we'd end up posting nothing, but, ewwww!
I'm not worried about who is reading them. We can't control that. I meant the posters here who were posting them, particularly the FICTIONAL vile scene describing JB on a table surrounded by men. What purpose is served by that explicit and disturbing imagery? Especially when it is something that is not known to have happened. It was that post, later removed and reposted with different names, that I had to question the poster's motives.
There are enough disgusting creeps around the internet. I don't want anyone getting their jollies at the expense of this little angel.
Hi DeeDee.
Yes I was having difficulty considering this possibility,
as suggested by voynich, that masterbation would cause this type of damage.
As LA retold her experience at the autopsy, did she not say the damage suggested digital penetration by a right handed individual and possibly, previously by an object the size of a penis?
Det. Linda Arndt was present at the autopsy, and she reported that the coroner said that the injuries to JB were consistent with digital penetration, NOT a penis.
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Possibly- but a penis wouldn't cause some of the injuries. Also, I recall Nedra making comments about the large size of BR's penis, even as a child. Some boys at that age may have a penis that is pretty much adult size. Not to use an old cliche, but some kids that age have adult-size feet, too, which comes to bear on the Hi-Tec shoe print, because it was adult size and not kid-size. My nephew at age 10 wore a man's size 11 shoe.
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