Precisely.
A rather "personal" question about female part
- Thread starter voynich
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Precisely.
Before I had children, I remember a comedian saying, "As the father of 3 girls, I underestimated the number of times I would have to say, 'don't put that in your vagina'"
I now have two little girls (3 and 7.5). I have one child who loves to stick things in her vagina. Suckers, fingers, etc. I don't know if it enough to actually cause damage to her hymen, but it is possible.
My other daughter has many of the same isses JB had, including bedwetting, not liking to bathe, and poor wiping skills. Coincidentally, she has also participated in pageants. The combination of these factors often makes her itchy "down there". I could see her itching herself vigorously enough to cause some damage.'' In addition, Patsy may have had to touch her to apply creme (like vagasil or similar product).
So to me, the hymen erosion does not offer evidence of IDI or RDI.
And for the record, if someone said one of my daughters were sexually abused, I would be extremely defensive also.
I now have two little girls (3 and 7.5). I have one child who loves to stick things in her vagina. Suckers, fingers, etc. I don't know if it enough to actually cause damage to her hymen, but it is possible.
My other daughter has many of the same isses JB had, including bedwetting, not liking to bathe, and poor wiping skills. Coincidentally, she has also participated in pageants. The combination of these factors often makes her itchy "down there". I could see her itching herself vigorously enough to cause some damage.'' In addition, Patsy may have had to touch her to apply creme (like vagasil or similar product).
So to me, the hymen erosion does not offer evidence of IDI or RDI.
And for the record, if someone said one of my daughters were sexually abused, I would be extremely defensive also.
In a much different way, I'm sure.
I'm not sure if I should dignify this with a response. Actually I won't other then to point out to you
1- " A rather "personal" question about female part"
2- "If discussion of menstruation disturbs you please look no further"
3- Deedee's claims per location of hymen, uncontested and accepted by true by RDI
4- Fellow JIDI knight HOTYH also disputed JB's sexual abuse, and other Spin and JIDI have discussed hymenel evidence,
if you really want to know the truth, and not spin, and since the RDI offer hymen diameter = JR MUST have, and only JR, sexual abused JB, leading to sex games leading to her strangling death, it's fair game to explore the behavior of little girls.
5- Please read below
DeeDee249 said:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j2F4VcBmeo[/ame]
"So to me, the hymen erosion does not offer evidence of IDI or RDI." Is what I counter-argued with the Spin.
Spin Lords what say you? Sophie, Madeline, Cynic, Redeemed, Darth Dave, JMO,
do you agree with Deedee or do you agree with KariKae? Would KariKae and others have stepped forward with the JIDI TRUTH, had I not first inquired about this? What do you think Sophie?
I want answers. I want to know the truth. Do you believe Deedee or KariKae?
Well, I'm probably not going to win too many friends here, but I think that both you and Sophie make good points.
A warning is not too much to ask for. I do it myself from time to time. But at the same time, I believe it's an extremely important issue, no matter how distasteful it is.
"
1- " A rather "personal" question about female part"
2- "If discussion of menstruation disturbs you please look no further"
:banghead:
I called it, didn't I? Though I have to agree, it's a question of discretion.
hmm are you an ex-sith lord? capt america?
so what are the ramifications of RDI given below
by same as before meaning "the hymen erosion does not offer evidence of IDI or RDI"
going from Sith to Capt America sounds like a switch
I meant that even IF (HUGE if) the hymenal erosion could be innocently explained (and that's a tall order, considering how little of it was left), it doesn't account for the erosion of the inner vagina itself or the behavioral issues.
Not at all. Cap's quote just resonated with me, that's all.
Interesting seeing SD's very true post about abused children and their thoughts on the abuse itself. Kids that young are not likely to think there is anything wrong about sexual contact, but child rape has to be physically painful for the child.
For what it's worth- OT here, MacKenzie Phillips' recent biography details her (consensual) sexual relationship with her father, Mamas & Papas John Phillips. It began when she was a very young teen- around 14 or so. Her father told her it was an act of familial love (or some such garbage) and she came to believe it. When I read that it was consensual, I was shocked until I read her explanations. A kid is still a kid, after all, and a sexually mature kid is still a kid. Teens do not think like adults.
For what it's worth- OT here, MacKenzie Phillips' recent biography details her (consensual) sexual relationship with her father, Mamas & Papas John Phillips. It began when she was a very young teen- around 14 or so. Her father told her it was an act of familial love (or some such garbage) and she came to believe it. When I read that it was consensual, I was shocked until I read her explanations. A kid is still a kid, after all, and a sexually mature kid is still a kid. Teens do not think like adults.
I'm glad SOMEBODY noticed!
I DID read it. And it just doesn't wash. We're talking, deep, repeated penetration here.
Det. Jane Harmer gave the gathered group an anatomy lesson. She showed side-by-side photographs of JonBenet's vagina and that of a normal six-year-old girl. "Even to the uninitiated, the visual difference was apparent."
Moreover, "defensive" really doesn't do it justice.
To the unitiated, the level of redness, soreness and inflamation that occurs in my throat is dramatic. My normally pink mucous membranes becomes inflamed, raw, red, engorged and very painful.
How much of that injury could be explained by what happened that night, and how much of it from previous say irritation or PR douching, "exploring" etc.
The combination of assault and trauma that occurred that night she died, possible previous history of vaginitis, in conjunction with "innocent" explanations that occurred earlier, could give a full accounting
Sophie
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I wasn't asking you dignify anything with a reply, Voynich. I was merely telling you that you are giving me the heebeejeebees as you did on the thread where you suggested that someone make a model vagina. However, you should do as you think best. I will add that a discussion of menstruation doesn't by definition involve pictures of vaginas so I think you should have put a warning on the thread as we do when we show autopsy photos but,again, you must do as you think best.
Separately, I have e mailed the bits of the autopsy which relate to JBR's genitals to a very senior gynaecologist for his impressions. He is actually rather high-profile within the NHS so I can't post his name here but I will e mail Dave his credentials so that he can confirm the guy's gravitas on these matters.
He is going to do a full summary of his thoughts at some point this week but his initial thought is that there is no doubt whatsoever that he would at least have investigated this as being sexual abuse had a child presented in his surgery with this damage to her vagina. He couldn't say conclusively without seeing the photos but would be compelled by law to report it had the child come into his surgery. This is obviously UK stuff but I really can't think that customs vary much from country to country in terms of protocol for investigating suspected child abuse.
More later.
Separately, I have e mailed the bits of the autopsy which relate to JBR's genitals to a very senior gynaecologist for his impressions. He is actually rather high-profile within the NHS so I can't post his name here but I will e mail Dave his credentials so that he can confirm the guy's gravitas on these matters.
He is going to do a full summary of his thoughts at some point this week but his initial thought is that there is no doubt whatsoever that he would at least have investigated this as being sexual abuse had a child presented in his surgery with this damage to her vagina. He couldn't say conclusively without seeing the photos but would be compelled by law to report it had the child come into his surgery. This is obviously UK stuff but I really can't think that customs vary much from country to country in terms of protocol for investigating suspected child abuse.
More later.
redeemed
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Voynich- I believe i gave you my opinion just 2 days ago....
ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE VOYNICH...SERIOUSLY ANYTHING....
Even if the vaginal injury had nothing to do with the parents (BIG IF) , this doesnt not change the fact that so many other things point in their direction....so just keep that in mind...
Holdontoyourhat
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RDI can discuss JBR's exact sexual anatomical characteristics ad nauseum. This is in support of an overblown repetitive claim of an incestuous or abusive sexual relationship between an adult male father and his 6 year old daughter. This relationship carried obsessively here and on supermarket shelves for years, when LE seems to fully ignore it.
Why does LE fully ignore it (I probably need to get out my violin again.)?
But if voinich brings it up its wierd? Gives the heebeejeebee's? Why is the discussion open season for RDI but not appropriate for IDI? Is this another attempt to use ridicule as a means of repressng IDI?
Third party doctors who never attended JBR in life or death, who are paid for by tabloids, or are not part of the official investigation, offer very little. What was needed to support the claim of prior abuse was specific concerns documented way back then by the doctors who mattered. Not third party armchair Monday morning experts.
Why does LE fully ignore it (I probably need to get out my violin again.)?
But if voinich brings it up its wierd? Gives the heebeejeebee's? Why is the discussion open season for RDI but not appropriate for IDI? Is this another attempt to use ridicule as a means of repressng IDI?
Third party doctors who never attended JBR in life or death, who are paid for by tabloids, or are not part of the official investigation, offer very little. What was needed to support the claim of prior abuse was specific concerns documented way back then by the doctors who mattered. Not third party armchair Monday morning experts.
Sophie
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Excuse me, the point to Voynich had nothing to do with you. Did I say you were giving me the heebees? No. Did I say any IDI were giving me the heebees? No. I said that Voynich, over the course of a few threads, had given me the heebees. People pointed this out on his previous thread, too. What I didn't do was ask him to stop, refer it to the mods for a ruling or actually attack Voynich. I really don't know why you are sticking your oar into a debate that doesn't affect you. No one else is. I gave my opinion as the mother of a seven year-old girl that I thought we were heading in an appropriate direction. You will find that I personally have had limited involvement in the discussions about JBR's genital injuries and have always wondered why IDI are so defensive about it when she could have been sexually abused by a friendly intruder. I know why you personally won't stand the suggestion - because it doesn't fit in with your preposterous Asian SFF notion.
Stop referring to tabloid-employed experts and people other than the coroner who have nothing to offer. LE employed experts, all of whom know more about paediatric gynaecology than Meyer. You wouldn't have objected to them on the grounds that they weren't at the autopsy if they disagreed with the conclusions made by Meyer about 'chronic' and 'erosion' injuries so don't be such a hypocrite. You are also as aware as anyone that Jane Harmer heard the coroner refer to digital penetration and you are also as aware as anyone about JBR's inappropriate beahviour. This didn't have to be caused by a parent but because an unknown intruder couldn't have done it, you start making stupid statements about what 'chronic' and 'erosion' mean.
As for the doctor I contacted. He a) knows nothing about the JBR case and b) was given the excerpts of the autopsy without any additional information, He didn't know or care that the victim was JBR. He has international repute in his field and works at the highest level of government on various medical issues. He is an expert whose neutrality is beyond question. He didn't say that he felt that JBR had been abused. He said that protocol would mean that the possibility would have to be investigated. He was going to explain the injuries at greater length and tell us what may have caused them. When he does, I advise you not to read them because, even if they support your notions, his words are meaningless since he wasn't at the autopsy.
Finally, he made an interesting comment that the autopsy was clearly not very recent because, in his experience, coroners are generally being far more specific about what they mean.