Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #175

[photographer4]

We can't say what they did or will do in the future. The trial hasn't begun yet. That's when we'll learn what LE has done. Right now, its just gossip and guessing. JMO

There's also a legal process that LE has to follow in order to hire experts, have them examine evidence, etc. No, they're not allowed to have experts sign non-disclosure agreements. They're actually required to testify in court and explain their work and how they reached their conclusions. They're familiar with the process, the law, etc.


ETA:

For anyone wondering about which defense attorneys in Indiana are eligible to handle Death Penalty cases, here's a link to the Indiana Death Penalty Roster. Andrew Baldwin and Brad Rozzi are not on this list.

https://ingov.sharepoint.com/sites/PDComPortal/Lists/2022%20Death%20Penalty%20List/Website%20View.aspx?env=WebViewList

I just wanted to point this out from this website:
https://www.in.gov/publicdefender/capital-death-penalty-attorney-roster/

 

[photographer4]

Agreed.

Virtual drop box -- online.

Physical drop box -- Marathon Gas Station

Central neutral locations, both, easy double blind to maintain anonymity...

The timing is all too tight for me.

Did KAK drop off a pre-loaded phone at the gas station and did RA pick it up?

Moreover, if a phone did change hands, then it's not impossible for KAK to have delivered a phone to Libby too. And for those phones to be synced to location, with Libby being altogether unaware she was carrying a real-time tracker.

JMO

I have long wondered about KAK and his phones and CSAM. I was just wondering whether anyone thinks it is possible that if RA got a phone from KAK - say a burner phone, is it possible that his phone was not tied to the scene because it wasn't used in the crime? Could RA's syntax, writing style, etc be used to compare against someone using the accounts held by KAK to catfish people? Would that even be considered a reliable assessment, or what would be needed to prove it? I could see it being reliable if RA was known to use slang words in his daily vocab that are perhaps more unique to him (eg: I have a friend who has a word I've only ever heard them use, and they also use it in text - I found a post of theirs on Reddit by pure accident because of this one word - they later verified they had authored the post in question).

 

[photographer4]

B McD said in this same interview from CourtTV with Vinnie Politan that yes, they did take photos of the sticks and the tree bark. Whether it was one photographer, we don't know. I am sure there would be a large group of CSI experts documenting that horrible scene.

MOO

Did she mention *when* they were photographed? I was multitasking and I quite possibly missed it! Ty.

 

[Ravenmoon]

A Question for people who still believe KAk is involved.

Why do you believe in a theory that his own Defense are not even using for trial?

Let’s be honest a predator who lures children is a lot easier pill to swollen than a far fetched cult. Yet the Defense are sayings it’s a Cult not KAK so that would indicate there is nothing there.

Mooo

I would assume that the defense would try to avoid any individual that can potentially connect RA to the murders.


JMO

 

[photographer4]

Oddly, nobody saw Abby, Libby or BG=RA after 2:13, that is when LE believed RA committed the murders, until SC passed by BG=RA at 3:47 pm "bloody and mudding looking like he'd been in a fight" walking on N300 heading in the direction of where his car would have been strangely baked in at the rear of the old CPS building.

MOO

Its interesting that Grey Hughes had the video out as well that noted there was a car spotted by a caller on the side of the road between the CPS building and the Havester Store. That was there at 8:45 when he arrived to work at the building opposite CPS and was there when he left as well at 2:15pm. I am interested in knowing much more about this older car - colour, any info on make or model (best guesses by the witness). I'd like to know if LE / Defense has spoken with this witness who gave Grey the info as well?

 

[FromGermany1]

Its interesting that Grey Hughes had the video out as well that noted there was a car spotted by a caller on the side of the road between the CPS building and the Havester Store. That was there at 8:45 when he arrived to work at the building opposite CPS and was there when he left as well at 2:15pm. I am interested in knowing much more about this older car - colour, any info on make or model (best guesses by the witness). I'd like to know if LE / Defense has spoken with this witness who gave Grey the info as well?

bbm
Who's business is there at that location?

 

[FromGermany1]

dbm

 

[photographer4]

A Question for people who still believe KAk is involved.

Why do you believe in a theory that his own Defense are not even using for trial?

Let’s be honest a predator who lures children is a lot easier pill to swollen than a far fetched cult. Yet the Defense are sayings it’s a Cult not KAK so that would indicate there is nothing there.

Mooo

Let's be honest that those kids were the unluckiest kids in the entire State, if not the entire country that day if they were in contact with KAK (or someone using one of his accts), and just happened to cross paths with a murderer that afternoon, with zero link between the two.

 

[mrjitty]

Let's be honest that those kids were the unluckiest kids in the entire State, if not the entire country that day if they were in contact with KAK (or someone using one of his accts), and just happened to cross paths with a murderer that afternoon, with zero link between the two.

That's one way to look at it for sure, but it also shows the dangers of propensity reasoning.

 

[photographer4]

Yes this is my attitude towards him as a suspect. He has been looked at and raked over the coals a million times by LE no doubt looking for a connection and as far as everybody knows there simply isn’t one.

Just because we don't know it, doesn't mean it simply isn't there. Take Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka (Paul was a serial rapist, and he and his lovely wife drugged, raped and murdered her younger sister, and went on to kidnap, sexually torture and then murder Kristin French and Leslie Mahaffey - trial in Ontario, Canada - 1993). Police had very little evidence to convict Paul and as a result Karla got what is known as a the "sweetheart deal" (plea bargain) because she claimed she was an abused wife and had been forced into things by her violent, murderous husband. No one knew that this was total bollocks at the time of her deal. Why? Because police didn't find the video tapes of the crimes that the couple had hidden in the ceiling of their home during the execution of their search warrant. Eventually it was retrieved by Paul's lawyer, and that was when it was realized, Karla was a very willing participant in the crimes. Paul continues to live in prison, but Karla has a fancy new name, has been out several years, remarried, had kids and even became a volunteer at her child's school. Imagine that? Just because something is not known by us or perhaps by LE doesn't mean it isn't there....

For more info on Bernardo's case:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/key-events-in-the-bernardo-homolka-case-1.933128

How is it possible that Karla Homolka was volunteering at a Montreal school? - Today's Parent
Edited to change to correct link.

 

[photographer4]

Agree, they're snookery like that.

MOO

"Snookery" is my new fave word!

 

[photographer4]

bbm
Who's business is there at that location?

I do not know - but the caller noted he was in pest control, and he was working at the building directly across from the CPS building that day.

 

[photographer4]

That's one way to look at it for sure, but it also shows the dangers of propensity reasoning.

Very fair point!

 

[Salah11]

Let's be honest that those kids were the unluckiest kids in the entire State, if not the entire country that day if they were in contact with KAK (or someone using one of his accts), and just happened to cross paths with a murderer that afternoon, with zero link between the two.

There is 300+ million in the U.S so not out of realms of possibility unfortunately. There are some very sick evil people out there.

 

[iamshadow21]

There is 300+ million in the U.S so not out of realms of possibility unfortunately. There are some very sick evil people out there.

Also, one in three girls are assaulted by the age of eighteen, so, child rapists are everywhere.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Just because we don't know it, doesn't mean it simply isn't there. Take Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka (Paul was a serial rapist, and he and his lovely wife drugged, raped and murdered her younger sister, and went on to kidnap, sexually torture and then murder Kristin French and Leslie Mahaffey - trial in Ontario, Canada - 1993). Police had very little evidence to convict Paul and as a result Karla got what is known as a the "sweetheart deal" (plea bargain) because she claimed she was an abused wife and had been forced into things by her violent, murderous husband. No one knew that this was total bollocks at the time of her deal. Why? Because police didn't find the video tapes of the crimes that the couple had hidden in the ceiling of their home during the execution of their search warrant. Eventually it was retrieved by Paul's lawyer, and that was when it was realized, Karla was a very willing participant in the crimes. Paul continues to live in prison, but Karla has a fancy new name, has been out several years, remarried, had kids and even became a volunteer at her child's school. Imagine that? Just because something is not known by us or perhaps by LE doesn't mean it isn't there....

For more info on Bernardo's case:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/key-events-in-the-bernardo-homolka-case-1.933128

How is it possible that Karla Homolka was volunteering at a Montreal school? - Today's Parent
Edited to change to correct link.

There are more sexual sadists and abusers out there than I can even wrap my head around, nor do I want to.
That case was one of the biggest miscarriages of justice I've ever seen. KH was more evil IMO allowing him (and participating!) to do that to her own sister.

jmo

 

[Falling Down]

How rough could it be to walk through? It doesn't look like there's any big hills and there's even open fields on the one side of Deer Creek, out of the woods, clear to RA's street.

Walking 625 and 200 he would have been seen by people driving and by folks living along there.

 

[O.Incandenza]

I checked a few weeks ago and didn't find him on the state's list. Which one is alleged to be DP certified? TIA

According to a number of Indiana defense attorneys, the public list isn't accurate or up-to-date. Bradley Rozzi lists himself as death penalty certified on his website. I don't know about Baldwin.

This isn't a death penalty case yet though. The new charges would allow the prosecution to seek it, but they haven't filed notice that they intend to do so yet.

 

[Emma Peel]

Today/New on the docket:

The Defense (via Hennessey) files petition for clarification of the Prosecution's Contempt allegations, as (per the D's clarification requests) none appear to meet the definition of contempt.

 

[Betty P]

Yep and let’s just hope it’s not dragged out for another 18 months.

It may be. As I pointed out earlier, neither defense attorney is DP certified

https://ingov.sharepoint.com/sites/PDComPortal/Lists/2022%20Death%20Penalty%20List/Website%20View.aspx?env=WebViewList

Criminal Rule 6.1 contains a continuing legal education requirement that must be met by attorneys representing the indigent prior to being appointed to a capital case. To be eligible to serve as lead or co-counsel, Criminal Rule 6.1 states an attorney must “have completed within two (2) years prior to appointment at least twelve (12) hours of training in the defense of capital cases in a course approved by the Indiana Public Defender Commission”. See CR 6.1.

Capital (Death Penalty) Attorney Roster

www.in.gov