Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

[sunshineray]

The way to avoid the slippery slope in my view is to not allow staff to add /remove things to / from the standard issue uniform. That’s all I’m saying.

What about devotional tattoos? I may not esthetically appreciate something that another wears on their body because of their beliefs but does that mean they don't get hired? I agree with it being a slippery slope. JMO

 

[grannygates]

I’m team no symbols, plain outfit, corrections employees/LE should not put religious patches of any kind on their outfits.

One of the symbols of odinism is the swastika. If a law enforcement officer or a corrections officer had a swastika tattoo on their face, I would be incredibly concerned for a lot of reasons.

I don’t want any law enforcement with extreme religious views, anyone that may become too involved with prison politics or someone who won’t protect others who their religion says are not worthy.

IMO Safest for everyone to keep everything absolutely neutral and hopefully prison has a hiring process to weed out people who put their own personal opinions above the rules of the prison. Although wishful thinking as corrections officers are infamously corrupt IMO.

 

[sunshineray]

I’m team no symbols, plain outfit, corrections employees/LE should not put religious patches of any kind on their outfits.

One of the symbols of odinism is the swastika. If a law enforcement officer or a corrections officer had a swastika tattoo on their face, I would be incredibly concerned for a lot of reasons.

I don’t want any law enforcement with extreme religious views, anyone that may become too involved with prison politics or someone who won’t protect others who their religion says are not worthy.

IMO Safest for everyone to keep everything absolutely neutral and hopefully prison has a hiring process to weed out people who put their own personal opinions above the rules of the prison. Although wishful thinking as corrections officers are infamously corrupt IMO.

That's actually a great example of a symbol that is known from as far back as BCE, a thousand years + eatlier than when it was chosen and used by a mad man to represent his evilness. So those cultures who created it to mean one thing have it misrepresented into something else. What we see in the Westville incidents may also be a misrepresentation created by lawyerly spin. Just my opinion.

 

[snooptroop88]

Did the guard actually have a swastika tattoo? If so, I would think this info would/should have found itself into the Franks, which labels Odinism as a "religious cult." Was it a swastika or something else? Does anyone know?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

It’s not a daycare. It’s a corrections facility. Staff should be neutral in their attire lest someone feel threatened or intimidated by the staff’s affiliations. It’s just not a good look for the facility imo - it allows the lawyers for the accused to waste time complaining about the attire of the guards in court proceedings vs focusing on their client’s potential innocence (unlikely in this case, he prob did it or had a hand in it!). If staff were not permitted to dress in this manner it would have circumvented this issue as possibly becoming a side show.

RA has “confessed”. Apparently many times to various people. But because the staff are “intimidating” him due to their apparent affiliations with Odinism, the lawyers may get away with asserting that he only did so because of their influence over his mental health & well being.

It’s just a lot of drama that could have been avoided if the staff had been dressed in neutral standard issue uniforms is all.

Trying to permeate Odinism into every aspect of this case was a choice made by the defense team. Even with their Franks motion fantasy, no one forced them to then go after guards who practiced it.
It’s unfair to blame the guards for a false narrative perpetuated by the defense. Just because the defense team claims they are intimidating RA doesn’t mean they are. Just because some guards wear outward signs of their religion and the defense has welded it into their fantasy doesn’t mean they had any play in any of this.
As you point out, the defense may get away with their false assertions, though I doubt it, but the onus is on the defense for fabricating it, not the guards.
The defense chooses to ignore RA’s confessions and guilt while ruining other people’s lives. They do not care in my opinion.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Sounds to me like the guards at Westville were allowed to wear patches on their uniforms. If all religions were able to be represented, I have no problem with that other than I believe there should be a separation of Church and State. Maybe some of the guards wore Superman patches?

It could be something they've done for years at Westville long before RA was even heard of. Obviously the Warden didn't have a problem with it at the time. Authorizing the removal was made shortly after it became an issue. I agree with that decision, but I do not think it played a part in how RA was treated whatsoever.

It was something taken by the Defense and blown out of proportion in the ridiculous Franks Memo to distract from the fact their client admitted to killing Abby & Libby 5 times to his own wife and mother, and allegedly to many others during his stay there. Maybe he confessed at Washburn as well?

MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

It’s just not a good look for the facility imo - it allows the lawyers for the accused to waste time complaining about the attire of the guards in court proceedings vs focusing on their client’s potential innocence (unlikely in this case, he prob did it or had a hand in it!). If staff were not permitted to dress in this manner it would have circumvented this issue as possibly becoming a side show.

^RSBM
IMO, RA’s lawyers were bound and determined to waste time and create a sideshow any way they could. It’s their strategy - “look there, not here.”

We could go on all day about what we think should be considered dress code for prison staff, but the guards’ clothing didn’t cause RA’s actions. They were wearing them before RA arrived. We have not heard of other inmates foaming at the mouth and eating feces due to an Odin patch.

I agree with you that the lawyers will assert that RA’s confessions were made under duress from prison conditions. It’s one of many tricks in their bag. Will it work? I’m not so sure. He confessed to his wife and mother. That is compelling.

jmo

 

[FrostedGlass]

IMO

This whole issue could have been resolved if the judge would have held a hearing on the Frank's memo and ruled on it. BUT, for whatever reason, she chose not to do it. Multiple times. So here we are, time and time again as the issue just keeps growing. Maybe, somewhere along the way, she will find it necessary to schedule a hearing.

We don't know the totality of the crime scene or what was done to the bodies of the victims; so I don't believe it's a good thing to write off the Odin link. Odinism seems to be a coat of many colors.

It's such an odd coincidence that two admitted Odin guards were assigned to watch a man whose murder case involved Odin-like possible connections. It's important to me to know the exact date those guards began their RA duty. I'm also looking for the ratio of guards to inmates and how they are assigned to the different pods.

Maybe JG will recuse and RA will get a new judge who will look at things in a different light.

 

[Yemelyan]

Did the guard actually have a swastika tattoo? If so, I would think this info would/should have found itself into the Franks, which labels Odinism as a "religious cult." Was it a swastika or something else? Does anyone know?

It wasn't a swastika. It seems that it was a tattoo of something resembling "Odin's spear" - according to Lebrato.

EXCLUSIVE: Allen's Ex-Attorney Says Prison Guard Had Odinism Face Tattoo

Bill Lebrato said a guard in charge of watching Allen was ordered to remove Odinism patches on his uniform, then later got a face tattoo resembling Odin's Spear.

www.courttv.com

 

[sunshineray]

It wasn't a swastika. It seems that it was a tattoo of something resembling "Odin's spear" - according to Lebrato.

EXCLUSIVE: Allen's Ex-Attorney Says Prison Guard Had Odinism Face Tattoo

Bill Lebrato said a guard in charge of watching Allen was ordered to remove Odinism patches on his uniform, then later got a face tattoo resembling Odin's Spear.

www.courttv.com

Power and strength...something I would suppose corrections officers would have to have to deal with what they deal with daily. Not a job I would ever covet but a necessary one in society. MO

 

[nadia90]

Think about it this crime was done by one sick individual. It's not some crazy *advertiser censored* religious cult killing. That's asinine. They got the piece of trash

 

[FrostedGlass]

It wasn't a swastika. It seems that it was a tattoo of something resembling "Odin's spear" - according to Lebrato.

EXCLUSIVE: Allen's Ex-Attorney Says Prison Guard Had Odinism Face Tattoo

Bill Lebrato said a guard in charge of watching Allen was ordered to remove Odinism patches on his uniform, then later got a face tattoo resembling Odin's Spear.

www.courttv.com

Thank you. Here's the version with the article, too.

Lebrato:
I believe they sacrificed a girl and killed another one.
RA = 100% innocent
(Odinism) It's a real thing and it's scary.
Confinement officers at the Allen Co. jail aren't even allowed to have facial hair let alone facial tattoos.
He had the case for 79 days as lead council.

EXCLUSIVE: Richard Allen's former defense attorney doubts he'll get a fair trial

Bill Lebrato opens up about accused Delphi killer Richard Allen's trial, alleged inhumane treatment and evidence of white nationalist Odinist involvement.

www.courttv.com

 

[sunshineray]

Thank you. Here's the version with the article, too.

Lebrato:
I believe they sacrificed a girl and killed another one.
RA = 100% innocent
(Odinism) It's a real thing and it's scary.
Confinement officers at the Allen Co. jail aren't even allowed to have facial hair let alone facial tattoos.
He had the case for 79 days as lead council.

EXCLUSIVE: Richard Allen's former defense attorney doubts he'll get a fair trial

Bill Lebrato opens up about accused Delphi killer Richard Allen's trial, alleged inhumane treatment and evidence of white nationalist Odinist involvement.

www.courttv.com

And that makes me wonder all the more why the defense wants Click to testify for them when he's said, “No one in law enforcement believes Abby and Libby were killed in a ritual sacrifice. That is the defense twisting facts for sensationalism.”

Delphi investigators: Defense 'twisting facts for sensationalism' over cult sacrifice claims

Richard Allen's public defenders have accused a white nationalist Odinist group of killing the girls in a ritualistic sacrifice.

www.courttv.com

 

[grannygates]

That's actually a great example of a symbol that is known from as far back as BCE, a thousand years + eatlier than when it was chosen and used by a mad man to represent his evilness. So those cultures who created it to mean one thing have it misrepresented into something else. What we see in the Westville incidents may also be a misrepresentation created by lawyerly spin. Just my opinion.

That’s actually why I chose that symbol! Buddists still use it today considering the actual meaning outside of the Nazis. There’s temples with swastikas. But common culture immediately relates it to Nazi, neo-nazi, white power.

So would a buddist prison guard get to wear swastikas patches ? Can an odinist? Who decides what is okay?

Too much room for opinion. safer to have everyone play by the same rules, wear the same thing. IMO There shouldn’t be any religion in law enforcement anyways.

And just my opinion- if the COs weren’t wearing religious patches, it wouldn’t give the lawyer any room to argue religion. tattoo-face made it worse for the odinism argument because it shows defiance, uncontrolled anger, poor decision making and impulse control. He could have gotten his tattoo somewhere hidden for work hours but he needed it on his face for a reason. JUST my opinion.

 

[sunshineray]

That’s actually why I chose that symbol! Buddists still use it today considering the actual meaning outside of the Nazis. There’s temples with swastikas. But common culture immediately relates it to Nazi, neo-nazi, white power.

So would a buddist prison guard get to wear swastikas patches ? Can an odinist? Who decides what is okay?

Too much room for opinion. safer to have everyone play by the same rules, wear the same thing. IMO There shouldn’t be any religion in law enforcement anyways.

And just my opinion- if the COs weren’t wearing religious patches, it wouldn’t give the lawyer any room to argue religion. tattoo-face made it worse for the odinism argument because it shows defiance, uncontrolled anger, poor decision making and impulse control. He could have gotten his tattoo somewhere hidden for work hours but he needed it on his face for a reason. JUST my opinion.

I think it could have been not an uncontrolled action but purposeful to that individual. MO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Just defense making mountains out of molehills. It is just ink. Artwork. Lots of people have tattoos, including on their face. Post Malone, Mike Tyson.

RA hung out in cheap bars in the Midwest. I’m going to guess he saw tattoos long before prison.

I can understand the points being made that it’s not the most professional look, and added fuel to the defense fire.

But that the guards’ tattoos contributed to RA’s confessions?
Not buying it.

jmo

 

[grannygates]

I’m not just thinking about RA here, but the entire prison population. Especially POC.

we are all aware that the general understanding is that Odonism was built as a racist, neonazi group that is currently fuelling domestic terrorism.

To be fair, It’s possible these guards don’t subscribe to the racist/white suprematism views (as some who follow Odin don’t) but I have my opinions. Prison politics is all about race.

And while the patches themselves aren’t to blame, I think the confessions will be blamed on the fact that RA is being held in segregation in a super max prison for years before being convicted (“presumed innocent”), possibly abused by guards and prisoners and its well-known the psychological affects segregation does to people.

IMO Extreme stress could illicit a false confession because he thinks if he says he did it, he can get moved out of his current housing. That’s why these housing decisions are problematic for the case.

 

[photographer4]

What about devotional tattoos? I may not esthetically appreciate something that another wears on their body because of their beliefs but does that mean they don't get hired? I agree with it being a slippery slope. JMO

I’m saying only this: a uniform is meant to ensure well, uniformity. If they didn’t want staff to look the same as one another, they wouldn’t have a uniform policy at all, would they? Simply put, I don’t believe a work uniform serves its purpose if people add to or remove from it at will. It causes silly issues such as the ones presented by RA’s lawyers. All easily avoided if they all wore the standard uniform without their own flare added. I further take issue with the staff who obtained a face tattoo of his symbolism after being called out by the lawyers for RA. It would be interesting to know when he booked to have that done - was it before or after being called out?? However, his tattoo doesn’t seem relevant to the case so much as perhaps it may be a disciplinary issue for his employer if an issue at all.

 

[photographer4]

Trying to permeate Odinism into every aspect of this case was a choice made by the defense team. Even with their Franks motion fantasy, no one forced them to then go after guards who practiced it.
It’s unfair to blame the guards for a false narrative perpetuated by the defense. Just because the defense team claims they are intimidating RA doesn’t mean they are. Just because some guards wear outward signs of their religion and the defense has welded it into their fantasy doesn’t mean they had any play in any of this.
As you point out, the defense may get away with their false assertions, though I doubt it, but the onus is on the defense for fabricating it, not the guards.
The defense chooses to ignore RA’s confessions and guilt while ruining other people’s lives. They do not care in my opinion.

Their job is not to care about the guards. Their client is only RA. I haven’t seen anything yet to suggest the guards lives were ruined by having been called out for having added their patches to their uniforms, perhaps I have missed it during my absence?

Clearly the management took note of the issue as evidenced by the guards then apparently removing the patches from their uniforms after having been called out by RA’s lawyers so perhaps they see the issue I am trying to point out. Again, I don’t care what the symbols were, uniforms should be neutral and well, uniform. Not added to or detracted from with personal views or affiliations.

 

[photographer4]

^RSBM
IMO, RA’s lawyers were bound and determined to waste time and create a sideshow any way they could. It’s their strategy - “look there, not here.”

We could go on all day about what we think should be considered dress code for prison staff, but the guards’ clothing didn’t cause RA’s actions. They were wearing them before RA arrived. We have not heard of other inmates foaming at the mouth and eating feces due to an Odin patch.

I agree with you that the lawyers will assert that RA’s confessions were made under duress from prison conditions. It’s one of many tricks in their bag. Will it work? I’m not so sure. He confessed to his wife and mother. That is compelling.

jmo

I agree with you and you’ve put it more succinctly than I have across several attempts.