Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #189

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We have to wait and see, don't we?
I have no idea what could come from any of this.
Definitely going to be interesting to see what if anything does come of any of it. I wonder if there will be some clap back at MS for their broadcasts, or if there will be anything from authority figures to the lawyers involved etc... Not sure what sort of timeline it might take for anything to come of it.
 
MS has not broadcast or published discovery They are exposing a covert group who had access to discovery only the Defense could have provided. There are strict protocols for sharing discovery and this isn't that.

JMO

I don't even think RA had representation at the time this happened. It certainly wasn't AB and BR. They had already been booted by JG. Were Scremin and Lebrato on the case yet?

Sounds to me like MH was a lone wolf at that point. He must have felt quite strong, then, about what he'd seen in the evidence.

IMO MOO
 
General question: the people who have provided MS with whatever information is being circulated about now regarding this lawyer or that lawyer's private convos etc - what made them go to MS vs say providing their info to an authority be it police, the Bar, JG herself etc? What is their end goal in providing MS the info in the first place? Do we know?
 
So because he didn't state he saw someone else wearing X clothes, that makes him guilty? Is it not possible that he left before someone else arrived? What makes it completely impossible that he left before someone else arrived? I'm not saying that is what happened, I'm asking why it couldn't have happened? I'm not asking for his alibi or anything else. I am only asking, what makes it completely impossible that he left before someone else arrived such that he didn't see BB or L & A?

Sure, could be so, as it’s a guessing game without having access to the evidence file. But I do think the various timestamps on photos and/or cellphone activity will create a solid timeline - the photo one of the 3 took, if RA was viewing his stock ticker, the video Libby took and anything more - and collectively will play a critical role in the jury’s verdict in the upcoming trial. So neither can I discount the significance in a possible conviction.

It’s equally possible RA claimed not to have seen the girls, hoping LE wouldn’t be interested in anything further he might have to say. If anyone knew he went to the trails that day, RA may have been pressured into talking to LE, as they were asking. MOO
 
Sure, could be so, as it’s a guessing game without having access to the evidence file. But I do think the various timestamps on photos and/or cellphone activity will create a solid timeline - the photo one of the 3 took, if RA was viewing his stock ticker, the video Libby took and anything more - and collectively will play a critical role in the jury’s verdict in the upcoming trial. So neither can I discount the significance in a possible conviction.

It’s equally possible RA claimed not to have seen the girls, hoping LE wouldn’t be interested in anything further he might have to say. If anyone knew he went to the trails that day, RA may have been pressured into talking to LE, as they were asking. MOO
Actually that is also a good point - I do wonder now if RA also told anyone else he'd been at the trails that day before he spoke to LE. I wonder if he tested a story on someone, and then enhanced or altered it based on their reactions? If witness statements can be affected by talking to a co-witness, I wonder if a witness statement from the perp can similarly affected by sharing his version of events with neutral parties who weren't there? I wonder if there is any research on this and will go searching for it when time permits. It must be a thing, surely, right? MOOOOOO.
 
General question: the people who have provided MS with whatever information is being circulated about now regarding this lawyer or that lawyer's private convos etc - what made them go to MS vs say providing their info to an authority be it police, the Bar, JG herself etc? What is their end goal in providing MS the info in the first place? Do we know?

Discredit the defense, taint a jury, get the defense team thrown off the case, delay the trial.

Possible reasons.

IMO MOO
 
Discredit the defense, taint a jury, get the defense team thrown off the case, delay the trial.

Possible reasons.

IMO MOO
Ok, so in theory, it is possible perhaps, that the people providing the information to MS might be doing exactly what people are mad that they think others are doing (eg: putting info in the public, tainting public opinion etc)?

On the other hand, have we considered that maybe the people being talked about in the MS podcast perhaps *wanted* whatever they are accused of out in the public so they sent someone forward to provide the info to MS, knowing it would hit the public quickly? I can't imagine why someone would want to make themselves look bad in this way really, but nothing would really shock me at this point. Just wondering, MOOO as a possibility, absurd as it may sound and all that....
 
General question: the people who have provided MS with whatever information is being circulated about now regarding this lawyer or that lawyer's private convos etc - what made them go to MS vs say providing their info to an authority be it police, the Bar, JG herself etc? What is their end goal in providing MS the info in the first place? Do we know?

Isn’t this a similar roadmap to MW’s leak of the crime scene photos? In the midst of severe criticism of MS, charges against MW were subsequently laid.

We can’t know how far this latest issue will go, yet.
 
Actually that is also a good point - I do wonder now if RA also told anyone else he'd been at the trails that day before he spoke to LE. I wonder if he tested a story on someone, and then enhanced or altered it based on their reactions? If witness statements can be affected by talking to a co-witness, I wonder if a witness statement from the perp can similarly affected by sharing his version of events with neutral parties who weren't there? I wonder if there is any research on this and will go searching for it when time permits. It must be a thing, surely, right? MOOOOOO.

Best of luck searching the internet for testimony for a trial that hasn’t even occurred, a trial protected by a gag order.

It used to said “don’t believe everything you read on the internet”. When did that change?
 
Isn’t this a similar roadmap to MW’s leak of the crime scene photos? In the midst of severe criticism of MS, charges against MW were subsequently laid.

We can’t know how far this latest issue will go, yet.
I am not sure - I believe MW took photos of some sort from the office of RA's lawyer, and then provided that photo / those photos (not sure which) to someone in Texas, who then provided them to someone else and some youtubers and podcasters. This link seems to agree that I have it right:


But MW was not charged with breech of a court order, and he wasn't charged with CSAM or anything significant imo. If I recall rightly, he was charged with a misdemeanor theft. If he'd been in possession of CSAM or in breech of some sort of court order regarding this case, I'm not really sure why his charge was so minimal? What MS did in that particular case was to get the trial delayed by 10 months per the same article: "The leaks delayed Allen's trial by ten months after Baldwin's team withdrew from the case due to 'gross negligence' over gruesome crime scene pictures being leaked to the public. "

In the end, I believe recently, MW got some sort of probation, and nothing really has come of the entire thing except that the trial was long delayed... The info that he got some sort of diversion program came from this link:
 
Best of luck searching the internet for testimony for a trial that hasn’t even occurred, a trial protected by a gag order.

It used to said “don’t believe everything you read on the internet”. When did that change?
To be clear, I wasn't asking to see evidence that RA provided info to anyone else before he gave his statement. I was asking in general - since we know that witness statements can be influenced by things such as talking to people before talking to police, talking with co-witnesses, how questions are asked etc etc etc... then I wondered if similar things can affect statements given by a guilty party (any guilty party, doesn't have to be RA in particular). Was just a theoretical question more than anything, not a literal one.
 
I don't even think RA had representation at the time this happened. It certainly wasn't AB and BR. They had already been booted by JG. Were Scremin and Lebrato on the case yet?

Sounds to me like MH was a lone wolf at that point. He must have felt quite strong, then, about what he'd seen in the evidence.

IMO MOO
HA!!!

R & B said MH was their PI
actually, he was an office asst.

Pretty sure B & R had him on payroll doing this dirty work for them. IMO

Leaking more leaks, like they did with the CS photos which ended up with one person committing suicide.

No wonder MH was worried if something happened to him.
I would have been too, dealing with these unethical, evil people.
 
HA!!!

R & B said MH was their PI
actually, he was an office asst.

Pretty sure B & R had him on payroll doing this dirty work for them. IMO

They weren't even on the case at the time this alleged "offense" occurred by this "office assistant." Judge Gull had already kicked them off and they weren't reinstated until two months later.
 
HA!!!

R & B said MH was their PI
actually, he was an office asst.

Pretty sure B & R had him on payroll doing this dirty work for them. IMO

Leaking more leaks, like they did with the CS photos which ended up with one person committing suicide.

No wonder MH was worried if something happened to him.
I would have been too, dealing with these unethical, evil people.
We can't really know for sure though why the person in receipt of the photos sent out by MW actually killed himself. We know only that he was in receipt of the photos from someone MW sent them to who then forwarded them to him. We know he was asked for an interview by LE, and then he committed suicide. It is possible that being in receipt of those photos played a role in his suicide but how do we know this for certain? We don't know what else may have been going on for him at time, or what his past life experience was. We don't know what the photos were even really of that might have led him to make his decision to suicide. We don't know what his past mental health status may have been, or whether any alcohol or drugs may have been consumed prior to his suicide. We don't know if he had long dealt with suicidal ideation or not, or even if he had made prior attempts.

It is unfair to declare that the man killed himself specifically because he was in receipt of photos somehow connected to this crime. It also feels very incomplete. If he did kill himself because he was in receipt of the photos, then why did he exactly? What made him so upset that it had this impact on him overall? We won't know because as far as we know, he did not grant police the interview they requested (depending on which source one uses - this one says he killed himself post police questioning: Indiana man is charged over leaking Delphi murder crime scene photos but this one claims he suicided "after police knocked at his door" - Man charged over evidence leak in Delphi murders case that led to removal of defense attorneys). Not sure if he did actually give the interview or not... Still, my point remains, we can imagine that his suicide was all because of the MW photos, but we can't know that for sure.
 
Nah,
that's the Defense team's strategy. Delay, remove Judge, file FM 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, etc and delay again, taint jury, have minions ask SM gals to investigate potential jurors, send so called "PI" aka office asst to same SM gals to distort pings among the media. Accuse innocent people of killing Libby & Abby ( Odinist) Leak CS photos, well, you get the idea.

this is simply a whistleblower providing the truth of the shenanigans of the D team.
I'd be so much more impressed if the "whistleblower" hadn't gone to a social media creator to blow the whistle though, and had instead gone to an actual authority who could DO something about it all! I'd be even MORE impressed if we were to find out that the content creators in question went to the authorities and filed a report - I could understand them putting it out in public if the powers that be had refused to listen to their concerns. That would make sense. But as it is, I just can't really get behind these creators as a good thing for either side of the case really. Maybe I'll eventually be pleasantly surprised.
 
Just out of curiosity, any chance that whatever has been "leaked" is fake? That wouldn't surprise me - to learn that people put things out that were not true, or were not quite true. How do we know any of it is true at all until trial? If there was some issue with the D team leaking actual things in contravention of the court order, what should we expect to see happen as a result?
None of the prior leaks coming out of this DT's office have been fake. So why would I think this one was?
 
They Resigned

then removed per their request.

They still had their dirty hands involved with the case.

Oh dear, we're back to they resigned vs JG tossed them without a hearing. Spartygirl, you know I love your posts, and I love the discussions had around here, even when we don't all agree, so this is NOT specifically directed at you, even though I'm replying to your comment, and have mentioned you. I'm more using your post a jump off to say, wow, we're going in big circles. I sure hope next week brings some clarity to the issues, and perhaps a beginning to resolution in some of them!!
 
None of the prior leaks coming out of this DT's office have been fake. So why would I think this one was?
Well, do we know yet what exactly what MW took photos of and sent around online? I guess I'm asking, is it possible that whatever he took from the attorney's office may not have been *actual* crime scene photos? Could they have been some representation of what the scene looked like vs actual crime scene photos? If the photos were actually taken by LE originally AND unaltered, then yes, they'd be actual crime scene photos. But if they were altered, or somehow changed and were recreations / imaginings or a theory of something, then they may have not even be real crime scene photos in the first place. Unless a judge could see what the original un-edited CS photos were, vs whatever MW snapped photos of an sent out, then I'm not sure the photos were really from the original actual crime scene. I'm not sure I'm articulating this really well, so I hope I make some sort of sense here. To me, given how minor his charges seemed, and that he was given a diversion program instead of some big scary sentence, it just seems that whatever he "leaked" couldn't have been really a breach of the order (no contempt against him?). Couldn't have been as horrible a thing as MS made them out to be really or I'd have expected bigger repercussions for him. Again, I've done my best to articulate my thoughts, but I get they may still be unclear.
 
I'd be so much more impressed if the "whistleblower" hadn't gone to a social media creator to blow the whistle though, and had instead gone to an actual authority who could DO something about it all! I'd be even MORE impressed if we were to find out that the content creators in question went to the authorities and filed a report - I could understand them putting it out in public if the powers that be had refused to listen to their concerns. That would make sense. But as it is, I just can't really get behind these creators as a good thing for either side of the case really. Maybe I'll eventually be pleasantly surprised.
That sounds logical in theory, but I think PM had seen enough to know that crossing this group would land him in Motta's " zone of pain."

This guy wanted a public record for his safety. He has first hand experience with the way these people handle anyone that disagrees with them.

Plus, we don't know if he has contacted authorities as well. Maybe he has?

JMO
 
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