Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[joe jones]

Does anybody have a link to a good resource of what was said during last court session, thanks

 

[photographer4]

Or they just leave the court room at that time. During the 3 day hearing his mother and wife left at the tough parts. They had obviously been told to do that.

It’s just sickening as the families of Libby and Abby don’t to have such luxury’s when it comes to be able to ignore the gruesome details that RA inflicted on them.

IMO

Who would tell them to do this when they can read the articles or listen to the podcasts with the details as easily as any of us can?

 

[susiQ]

Same here. Indisputable phone records from lots of people, not just LG and RA, tracing all movements, communications, and interactions for the 12th, 13th, and 14th. Maybe even the 15th and beyond.

IMO MOO

It is quite unfortunate, IMO, that THAT was not done for some very suspicious characters.

 

[Salah11]

Who would tell them to do this when they can read the articles or listen to the podcasts with the details as easily as any of us can?

Why would his wife and mother go searching out the gory details when they have likely been told to not listen to any of it?

That’s exactly what RA wanted them to avoid at all costs. Ignorance is bliss so they say.

IMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Go through your cases? I don't understand what you mean?

I've followed a lot of cases here and posted updates from the CCS.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Maybe it wasn't as specifically said to the media back then. LE was extremely closed-mouthed those earlier years.

How else would we have known about it?

It was known in Feb 2021:

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

It was announced there would be no press conference on the fourth anniversary of the murders of Liberty German and Abigail William, the two middle school students who went for a hike on the Monon High Bridge Trail in 2017 and did not return alive. Questions about the case from both the local...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

Q. It has been stated in a press conference that “it was all over by 3:30 on Feb 13.” This statement was based on what information?

 

[tlcya]

Indiana State Police Lt. Jerry Holeman also gave damning testimony about Allen’s alleged confessions, telling the court a fellow inmate had come forward to claim that Allen had not only confessed – but had revealed his chosen murder weapon.

Allen allegedly claimed he killed Libby and Abby with a boxcutter and disposed of it by throwing it in a dumpster outside CVS.
Prosecutors say Delphi murders suspect confessed 60 times.

Other indicators included that the cause of death according to Perlmutter was that the girls’ throats were slit with a sharp object. Perlmutter also said that the murder weapon, a ceremonial knife was a part of the case, but the official weapon is not known in the case.
https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/midwest/delphi-murders-ritualistic-killings-details/

I am reasonably certain an expert can testify as to whether the type of blade used is one that might be found on a bladed knife, say one meant for ritual sacrifice versus a box cutter. I look forward to trial and hope the state asks Perlmutter if she considered a boxcutter a ceremonial knife.

 

[photographer4]

Why would his wife and mother go searching out the gory details when they have likely been told to not listen to any of it?

That’s exactly what RA wanted them to avoid at all costs. Ignorance is bliss so they say.

IMO

There is a diff between searching out the gory details and sitting through a courtroom hearing imo. I was only asking who would have asked them to leave that part and why?

 

[sunshineray]

How else would we have known about it?

It was known in Feb 2021:

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

It was announced there would be no press conference on the fourth anniversary of the murders of Liberty German and Abigail William, the two middle school students who went for a hike on the Monon High Bridge Trail in 2017 and did not return alive. Questions about the case from both the local...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

Q. It has been stated in a press conference that “it was all over by 3:30 on Feb 13.” This statement was based on what information?

Yes but didn't you say in your post you were looking for something before that date?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Does anybody have a link to a good resource of what was said during last court session, thanks

You can check out the news articles here or find a podcaster of your choice. @arielilane posts news articles here.

IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION #2

@davebangert Status hearing set for Aug. 23 in case of Richard Allen, accused in the 2017 murders of Delphi teens Abby Williams and Libby German. First part closed to public, Judge Gull says. 1/ In the closing minutes of the three days of pretrial hearings July 30-Aug 1, including a nearly...

www.websleuths.com

Hopefully the transcripts will be out soon and you can read for yourself what was said.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Yes but didn't you say in your post you were looking for something before that date?

I'll try this again.
I found a convo we had here in July 2021 asking about the "all over by 3:30" comment
I found the linked article dated Feb 17, 2021.
That article references a press conference where the "all over by 3:30" comment was made
So I'm looking for a press conference that happened prior to Feb 17 2021.

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

It was announced there would be no press conference on the fourth anniversary of the murders of Liberty German and Abigail William, the two middle school students who went for a hike on the Monon High Bridge Trail in 2017 and did not return alive. Questions about the case from both the local...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

 

[statt#1]

Or, some cat named RA, who lives nearby, and is familiar with the entire trail area, dressed up in pseudo disguise, entrapped two young teenage girls on the bridge, ordered them down the hill, and across the creek, where he brutally murdered them.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I'll try this again.
I found a convo we had here in July 2021 asking about the "all over by 3:30" comment
I found the linked article dated Feb 17, 2021.
That article references a press conference where the "all over by 3:30" comment was made
So I'm looking for a press conference that happened prior to Feb 17 2021.

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

It was announced there would be no press conference on the fourth anniversary of the murders of Liberty German and Abigail William, the two middle school students who went for a hike on the Monon High Bridge Trail in 2017 and did not return alive. Questions about the case from both the local...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

I don’t know of a press conference. The Comet may have misremembered where it was possibly first said, which was the DE text. Daily Mail covered it.

Amid the frustration for information, lurid text messages leaked online from someone at the crime scene, which the documentary claimed were shared by Abby's uncle, DE.

The text read: 'Me and my other sisters boyfriend are the ones who found the girls Tuesday. Coroner's report stated everything was over by 3:30. No rape. Abby was dressed. Libby was nude.

'Libby's top half was covered with leafs (sic) and sticks, almost like they were trying to cover her.

'The only DNA would be from Libby's fingernails. She fought like hell. Whoever did it targeted Libby for sure and knew what they were doing with Abby. It was personal with Libby.'

Delphi murders thrown into question by shocking new probe into deaths

A shocking new probe into the Delphi murders has raised doubt over the suspect charged with the brutal double-slaying of Libby German and Abby Williams in 2017 that shocked a nation.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[justtrish]

The defense has alleged that the letter on the tree is a rune and something the killer or group of killers (take your pick from their list) did as part of a ritual killing.

So if this is a letter that Libby wrote weather intentionally or just with her hand in her last moments touching the tree to make this mark.. it wouldn't be a Rune as the defense has painted in their many memos. Well I guess I wouldn't put it past them to suggest Libby was participating in this little ritual thing they think was going on.. so maybe we will see that accusation next. Anyway, if it isn't a Rune, then was this not a ritual killing where they painted the tree as some worship to Odin? If it was not, then was this even more than one killer?

Without this being some cult coming together to do these killings, it really deflates the defense story about EF and his band of buddies or what was it "brothers" committing these murders.

Another thought is that the severity of Libby's injuries lead me to believe she didn't intentionally mark the tree with anything once her neck was cut.

 

[TTF14]

This should be a good live coming up in about 20 minutes.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I don’t know of a press conference. The Comet may have misremembered where it was possibly first said, which was the DE text. Daily Mail covered it.

Amid the frustration for information, lurid text messages leaked online from someone at the crime scene, which the documentary claimed were shared by Abby's uncle, DE.

The text read: 'Me and my other sisters boyfriend are the ones who found the girls Tuesday. Coroner's report stated everything was over by 3:30. No rape. Abby was dressed. Libby was nude.

'Libby's top half was covered with leafs (sic) and sticks, almost like they were trying to cover her.

'The only DNA would be from Libby's fingernails. She fought like hell. Whoever did it targeted Libby for sure and knew what they were doing with Abby. It was personal with Libby.'

Delphi murders thrown into question by shocking new probe into deaths

A shocking new probe into the Delphi murders has raised doubt over the suspect charged with the brutal double-slaying of Libby German and Abby Williams in 2017 that shocked a nation.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Thanks for the link.
I knew about DE's texts but didn't have an approved source for it. I thought it was possibly credible that he saw the coroner's report since it remained unsealed for a period of time.

 

[katydid23]

Yes. I'm just wondering why in all of the information that's been gleaned in recent motions, hearings, etc. there is no mention at all of the girls being wet.

I personally don't believe they crossed the creek.

IMO MOO

Their bodies were not found until almost 1 pm the following day. So it was about 23 hours AFTER they would have crossed the creek.

Is that the only reason you don't believe they crossed the creek? Because 23 hours is plenty of time to dry off, IMO.

But there were clothes of their found in the water. And one of the shoes was on other side, IIRC. Crossing the shallow part of the creek seems logical, imo. But I don't know for sure and I am not sure it even matters anyway.

 

[TTF14]

Their bodies were not found until almost 1 pm the following day. So it was about 23 hours AFTER they would have crossed the creek.

Is that the only reason you don't believe they crossed the creek? Because 23 hours is plenty of time to dry off, IMO.

But there were clothes of their found in the water. And one of the shoes was on other side, IIRC. Crossing the shallow part of the creek seems logical, imo. But I don't know for sure and I am not sure it even matters anyway.

No, not the only reason.

IMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

I'll try this again.
I found a convo we had here in July 2021 asking about the "all over by 3:30" comment
I found the linked article dated Feb 17, 2021.
That article references a press conference where the "all over by 3:30" comment was made
So I'm looking for a press conference that happened prior to Feb 17 2021.

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

It was announced there would be no press conference on the fourth anniversary of the murders of Liberty German and Abigail William, the two middle school students who went for a hike on the Monon High Bridge Trail in 2017 and did not return alive. Questions about the case from both the local...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

IIRC, LE didn't have that many press conferences. Maybe someone mentioned it in an earlier 2017-2020 interview but I doubt it.

 

[katydid23]

My opinion is that the creek was actually quite deep that day because of the runoff from melting snow, but consider that just my opinion until I can find a link with the historical data.

I don't know how they ended up where they ended up. But I don't think they crossed the creek. And I don't think Abby's (Libby's) clothes were wet.

IMO MOO

ETA: This link showed that the water would have been about 3.5 feet deep that day. Can't imagine how cold, too. I don't know how to check, or what the word/calculation is, for how swiftly the current would have been moving at that depth.

View attachment 525403

USGS Current Conditions for USGS 03329700 DEER CREEK NEAR DELPHI, IN

there are pictures of searchers crossing the creek the day after they went missing and water appears to come waist high or below.[ I will look for it again]

And the female homeowner of a home right there said that the water at that time was pretty low at that part of the creek.[ I will try and find it and bring it here. ]