Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[Megnut]

4 pm vs 4 am

IMO and I'm loathe to type this, there's going to be stomach contents (time of last meal was witnessed), rigor, insect activity. Possible that the time of death had a range of "12 +/-" rendering it indeterminate but I'm hopeful it is evident, granting clarity, like 4 hrs +/-.

The totality of it all is just so sinister...

The terror.

The mental picture of Libby, likely having just witnessed him injure Abby, trying to run. For help. Or for her life.

Her hand to her neck, time must have stopped... and she may well have run INTO that tree. Headlong. Only enough wherewithal to put a hand out to keep from falling/crashing into it.

Surely LE will be able to paint the sad picture, based on all of the blood patterns. Where she was when first injured, which injury was first, last. How much time she may have been in any one spot. Photographs the poor jurors will never un̈
see.

THIS will forever stick with me: at the end of a different trial, guilty verdict, the judge thanked, commended and released them, but not before wishing them well, his sincere wish that they could recover...

If RA had an ounce of conscience, he'd sign and date his confession, put a stamp on it, and, if his Defense won't accept it, then on to the Prosecution who will.

I know I've said it before but believe it more and more, I wish he'd have missed a step, and let the river swallow him whole.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

Typing this while 6 pages behind --

EF

What sounds horribly incriminating might actually be very simple and innocent.

"I was on that trail. On the bridge with those girls. I spit... she was a troublemaker..."

I was on the trail, on the bridge -- the same one the girls were on -- at an unspecified time.

Comparable to how most people would say it. I can't believe it happened there, I've been in that very spot. I've stood on that platform a hundred times.

He might have spit from that bridge. He might have heard people before and after talking about the victims (who was a troublemaker and who was not) and incorporated it into his own narrative.

Context will matter.

There might be some real innocence and naivety reflected in his words.

JMO

 

[SouthEnd]

LE know when the girls were abducted at 2:14pm as DTH was recorded on the video’s audio on Libby’s phone. But dead within 18 minutes, how did they arrive at that? The app which I can find no mention of? Regardless that the girls were taken and then returned at 4:30am to be murdered is a really doubtful theory, another one based on no proof other than a cellphone becoming active. IMO

https://fox59.com/indiana-news/judge-approves-transfer-of-richard-allen-to-county-jail-new-details-about-delphi-murders-released/

“While investigators believe Abby and Libby were abducted at 2:14 p.m. on that Monday and dead within 18 minutes….

So most smartphones have built in pedometers. If you have samsung, it comes with build in samsung health that automatically counts your steps.

Any kind of modern-ish smartphone counts your steps in the background, unless you opt-out.

From Google AI (what a time to be alive... take it with a pinch of salt):
'
Yes, many smartphones have built-in sensors that can count your steps, including accelerometers, gyroscopes, and GPS. These sensors work together to detect movement, determine direction, and track distance. You can also use apps to track your steps, such as:

• Apple Health: Available on iPhones, this app includes a dashboard that shows your steps, walking and running distance, and flights climbed.
  
  
  
• Google Fit: Available on Android phones, this app includes your steps, estimated calories burned, and other fitness information.
  
  
  
• Pacer: This popular app has a free version that works as a pedometer.
  
  

The accuracy of your phone's step counter depends on the quality of its sensors. For example, shaking your phone might be recognized as walking by the phone's motion sensor, which could count steps. Some say that putting your phone in your pocket instead of your bag can also provide a more accurate count.
'

 

[photographer4]

Typing this while 6 pages behind --

EF

What sounds horribly incriminating might actually be very simple and innocent.

"I was on that trail. On the bridge with those girls. I spit... she was a troublemaker..."

I was on the trail, on the bridge -- the same one the girls were on -- at an unspecified time.

Comparable to how most people would say it. I can't believe it happened there, I've been in that very spot. I've stood on that platform a hundred times.

He might have spit from that bridge. He might have heard people before and after talking about the victims (who was a troublemaker and who was not) and incorporated it into his own narrative.

Context will matter.

There might be some real innocence and naivety reflected in his words.

JMO

context is everything when it comes to things people say for sure. Big part of why I want all the info on the things RA has said. I don’t want vague remarks that say he made incriminating statements. Not enough for me I hope the D ask alllll the questions.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Typing this while 6 pages behind --

EF

What sounds horribly incriminating might actually be very simple and innocent.

"I was on that trail. On the bridge with those girls. I spit... she was a troublemaker..."

I was on the trail, on the bridge -- the same one the girls were on -- at an unspecified time.

Comparable to how most people would say it. I can't believe it happened there, I've been in that very spot. I've stood on that platform a hundred times.

He might have spit from that bridge. He might have heard people before and after talking about the victims (who was a troublemaker and who was not) and incorporated it into his own narrative.

Context will matter.

There might be some real innocence and naivety reflected in his words.

JMO

This is a good possibility.
EF made what sounds like incriminating statements. But, as you have stated, we don't have the full conversation or context.

If LE really thought that he was involved, we would know.

He is an easy target.

He willingly gave a mouth swab.
I can't help but wonder if he didn't understand why that was needed. He might have been trying to clarify what happens with his "spit".

The officers that looked at EF confirmed that there is nothing that connects him to the crime scene .

IMO it's because he wasn't there.

 

[sunshineray]

Like he showed them the ropes you mean?

Like he provided a venue

 

[sunshineray]

Meh. I don’t think gag orders work well either tbh. Look at this case. People still think the D violated one with their F motion one last fall. But they didn’t. Because as someone in the last thread explained, gags don’t apply to motions before the court. The information they wanted out got out and the order was useless in stopping it. Worse, the order prevents the P from correcting it. Leaving the public and maybe possible jurors with incorrect or assumed info that may be hard to overcome at trial. Nagging doubts abound. Maybe the other issue is the length of time from arrest to trial. Or even crime to arrest.
Heck rumours were swirling even before the arrest about BH et al (defense franks one pls don’t make me link it again or I swear it’s becoming my signature).

Unethical behavior, IMO

 

[sunshineray]

Do you have a link?

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

 

[sunshineray]

I'd like to see the full interviews LE had with him to know how many hints they dropped regarding the crime and the scene. I'd like to know who all his "companions" were. How he came to Jesus will be of particular interest.

I trust the DT knows the answers to all those questions but I am curious as to why it would matter how "he came to Jesus"? If he was given a Bible, if a guard, inmate, doctor etc suggested reading it with specifics...would that be looked upon as "government agent"ing him into confessing? I don't think so, to me it would be akin to providing food, sustenance. You can eat it or not, your choice. JMO

 

[MiniMoo]

I think we agree in some things here but not others. I believe she was stalked yes. <not victim friendly> I can believe she may have had a moment to shoot a mass group text or a snap or a dm to someone or even many people to say they were going to be at the trail. I think it is possible they may have invited others even if by way of open invitation such as “let me know if you’ll be there”. Doesn’t take much and texts are fast to send.

I believe if this happened a lot of people may have known where LG and AW were about to be and that they’d be without adult supervision.

I don’t know who they may have expected to meet or for what reason but I think there was some plan.

What really makes me think so is LG being called a hero by LE for having recorded BG. To be a hero she had to have some knowledge that something was going or about to go very wrong. Something had to have tipped her off. What was it? Did he say something to them that we don’t know? Did they realize someone they planned to meet wasn’t what they were supposed to look like? Imo and with respect, LG is not a hero so much as a kid doing kid things with her friend and her phone on a trail that day. Unless she knew it was about to go south. If she did, I hope we find out what she knew and when she knew it so I too can consider her the hero so many others do.

MOOO

On that day there may have been one other boy invited by the girls only he had to do farm chores or something, also, K German may have been asked to join them only she had a job to go to that afternoon.

I feel it's possible that Abby and Libby going to the trail on February 17th may not have been been about meeting someone there at all.

Did anyone else read about a boy plus K German or perhaps see it brought up in an interview.

 

[sunshineray]

At what point does the number of "confessions" without pleading guilty become absurd and literally unbelievable?

I agree, it's quite unbelievable and absurb that a man can want to confess so very much and yet his lawyers will not listen to him and it appears, from the recent hearings testimony, neither will some of his close family members. MO

 

[MiniMoo]

On that day there may have been one other boy invited by the girls only he had to do farm chores or something, also, K German may have been asked to join them only she had a job to go to that afternoon.

I feel it's possible that Abby and Libby going to the trail on February 17th may not have been been about meeting someone there at all.

Did anyone else read about a boy plus K German or perhaps see it brought up in an interview.

There is one other girl that was meant to go that day as well, but didn't. She is also a close friend of Abby and Libby.

 

[Salah11]

I agree, it's quite unbelievable and absurb that a man can want to confess so very much and yet his lawyers will not listen to him and it appears, from the recent hearings testimony, neither will his close family members. MO

Yes if somebody confessed to me loads of times about such a ghastly crime I would throw away the key myself. IMO

 

[sunshineray]

My first thought when I read that was: "Who in their right mind does that?!"
My second thought was: "No one."

Maybe a guilty man who nobody within his DT will listen to?

 

[sunshineray]

I can’t find what I’m looking for and I don’t think I’m dreaming. I could swear I read Libby had an app on her cellphone that measured the amount of time the cellphone was moving (an exercise app?) but I can’t find a source. Hopefully someone knows what I’m talking about.

Didn't the app provide the 18 time period of movement information? Was that at the hearings?

 

[sunshineray]

4 pm vs 4 am

IMO and I'm loathe to type this, there's going to be stomach contents (time of last meal was witnessed), rigor, insect activity. Possible that the time of death had a range of "12 +/-" rendering it indeterminate but I'm hopeful it is evident, granting clarity, like 4 hrs +/-.

The totality of it all is just so sinister...

The terror.

The mental picture of Libby, likely having just witnessed him injure Abby, trying to run. For help. Or for her life.

Her hand to her neck, time must have stopped... and she may well have run INTO that tree. Headlong. Only enough wherewithal to put a hand out to keep from falling/crashing into it.

Surely LE will be able to paint the sad picture, based on all of the blood patterns. Where she was when first injured, which injury was first, last. How much time she may have been in any one spot. Photographs the poor jurors will never un̈
see.

THIS will forever stick with me: at the end of a different trial, guilty verdict, the judge thanked, commended and released them, but not before wishing them well, his sincere wish that they could recover...

If RA had an ounce of conscience, he'd sign and date his confession, put a stamp on it, and, if his Defense won't accept it, then on to the Prosecution who will.

I know I've said it before but believe it more and more, I wish he'd have missed a step, and let the river swallow him whole.

JMO

I believe, IIRC, that the crime scene blood expert testified that Libby was sliced from behind and fell to her knees by the tree. Then he mentioned her hand making the mark. In my mind I thought she was probably trying to steady herself. Just the shock and agony she experienced, it's just to horrific to comprehend </3

 

[Salah11]

Haunting new details about Delphi murders are revealed in court

Libby German, 14, and Abby Williams, 13, disappeared on February 13, 2017, while hiking the Monon High Bridge Trail in Delphi, Indiana. Richard Allen, 51, was charged with their murders

www.dailymail.co.uk

I have just read this. Part of an article from 4th August.
If as this article claims the people who found the bodies then leaked crime scene information then any of these Odins they are accusing of being involved would of have some knowledge of the crime scene just from reading about it. IMO

The text read: 'Me and my other sisters boyfriend are the ones who found the girls Tuesday. Coroner's report stated everything was over by 3:30. No rape. Abby was dressed. Libby was nude.

'Libby's top half was covered with leafs (sic) and sticks, almost like they were trying to cover her.

'The only DNA would be from Libby's fingernails. She fought like hell. Whoever did it targeted Libby for sure and knew what they were doing with Abby. It was personal with Libby.'

An expert in the case added that there was 'talk of Libby almost being decapitated, which looks like it was done out of rage.

 

[MiniMoo]

Day 3 Hearing:

No time of death was established nor were temperature readings done on the girls bodies apparently which isn't good for the PT or State.

61 confessions isn't favourable for RA or the DT.

Seems there is no time of death.

 

[Salah11]

Day 3 Hearing:

No time of death was established nor were temperature readings done on the girls bodies apparently which isn't good for the PT or State.

61 confessions isn't favourable for RA or the DT.

Seems there is no time of death.

Libby’s phone counted steps, so the fact they didn’t count any more steps after a specific time point would indicate they were deceased. I am positive the Prosecution will be able to show she was incredibly active by the steps on her phone for that to cease that afternoon.

Then add in RA being seen walking back to his car muddy and bloody. It would also indicate that he had murdered them by that point. IMHO

 

[mrjitty]

Unethical behavior, IMO

Agreed. There was no need for the D to promote these conspiracies via their filings - and thanks to the discord leaks to MurderSheet we know their surrogates were promoting the same nonsense online.

MOO