Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[sunshineray]

Yes.

1. What does the Public Defender of Indiana do?

The Public Defender of Indiana provides representation for Indiana post-conviction relief actions to convicted and sentenced adults, and adjudicated and committed juveniles, who are incarcerated and serving (or subject to future.

Frequently Asked Questions

www.in.gov

Wow that's very interesting info. So if you plea guilty with no plea agreement, you can still appeal. Maybe that's something involved here with RA's case? He won't (his lawyers telling him not to) sign a plea agreement, will only agree to plea guilty without signing an agreement so he still has an appeal track?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Wow that's very interesting info. So if you plea guilty with no plea agreement, you can still appeal. Maybe that's something involved here with RA's case? He won't (his lawyers telling him not to) sign a plea agreement, will only agree to plea guilty without signing an agreement so he still has an appeal track?

RA has not entered a guilty plea at this time. If he agrees to a plea deal, he can still appeal his sentence.

IMO there is nothing to be gained by him if he makes a deal.

 

[justtrish]

I have never understood the idea of humiliating a victim via posing when the victim is deceased. Dead kids do not experience humiliation imo. I can understand though that he may have wanted to shock the searchers who would eventually find her.

I've never understood the idea of killing someone for any reason other than true self defense or accident. I just don't think we can try to understand the mind of someone that is willing to kill 2 young girls.. even if it was a sexually motivated crime.. WHY? I can't understand that at all. So I wouldn't expect to understand why that killer might also think in his or her mind that posing the victims would be the ultimate got you sorta thing. Nothing they have done to that point makes any sense either. Why abduct them? Why kill them? Why cover them at all? Why move them or stage them? It just doesn't make sense on any level I try to understand it on.

 

[justtrish]

I think, these perps are completely depraved by their consumption of p**n. Nothing can be dirty enough for them. MOO

I think they also think about it for a long time. They imagine what it will be like to do this thing they have fantasized about for a while. They play it in their minds and I just don't think it ever really lives up to what they might have thought it would be like. Maybe things didn't go how he had imagined. He is mad at one or both of them because it didn't go perfectly as he had planned it out in his head. So he thinks I'll show them and in his mind this is humiliating them.. to get back at them for it not going as he wanted. I don't know it just won't make any sense to us because I doubt any of us here on WS have imagined doing anything like this.

 

[sunshineray]

Wow that's very interesting info. So if you plea guilty with no plea agreement, you can still appeal. Maybe that's something involved here with RA's case? He won't (his lawyers telling him not to) sign a plea agreement, will only agree to plea guilty without signing an agreement so he still has an appeal track?

This graphic from the link in the post that I replied to says on a guilty plea you can only appeal if the sentence is not set by a plea agreement.

 

[sunshineray]

I was looking for something else and ended up in this "dead at 3:30" rabbit hole. We were wondering where that came from as far back as July 2021.
I wonder which PC it was prior to Feb 17, 2021, when the article was written?

Here are 2 Leazenby interviews where he is questioned about that timeframe.
Q. It has been stated in a press conference that “it was all over by 3:30 on Feb 13.” This statement was based on what information?
A. Evidence. I do not recall a specific time though but rather a time line.

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

It was announced there would be no press conference on the fourth anniversary of the murders of Liberty German and Abigail William, the two middle school students who went for a hike on the Monon High Bridge Trail in 2017 and did not return alive. Questions about the case from both the local...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

Sheriff Leazenby continues to answer double homicide questions - Carroll County Comet

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby agreed to answer a second set of questions from readers this week about the 2017 double homicide of Delphi Community Middle School students, Libby German and Abby Williams, who were murdered during an outing on the Delphi trails system near the Monon High...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

It's not a rabbit hole...

"Investigators believe the murders happened between 2:30 p.m. and 3:30 p.m. Feb. 13, 2017, the day Abby and Libby went for a hike..."

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen's attorneys accuse police of hiding evidence

Richard Allen's attorneys argue police were too quick in clearing a man with ties to one of the victims and Odinism.

www.indystar.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

This graphic from the link in the post that I replied to says on a guilty plea you can only appeal if the sentence is not set by a plea agreement.


View attachment 525578

OK. I'm apparently wrong. Oh how painful it is to admit that!
I'll have to go through my cases and see where my thinking went wrong.

 

[tlcya]

MOO, this would have been a non issue in the Delphi case. The ambient outdoor temperatures the victims had been in overnight was going to be the main and deciding factor. Just speculation but I doubt they spent any time in the Carroll County morgue before being transported to Terre Haute for autopsy based on the timing of the press conferences etc.

correct. The bodies core temps would have been taken on scene, prior to them being transported to the morgue. So the conditions of the morgue would have zero to do with the TOD determined from those temps.

 

[girlhasnoname]

#Justice4Abby&Libby


Photo by Crimelights.com

 

[Arkay]

I know this F “rune” issue has been debated here for years.

I personally get literally nauseous when I see pictures of the scene, but yesterday I happened upon a picture of the tree again.

Old news, I know, but it hit me afresh because recently a poster here had the opinion that the blood line was too straight to have been made by Libby dying against the tree.

When I see that picture (gagging again as I write) I see a line that easily could be Libby grasping the tree and then sliding straight down.

IMO if Libby’s blood was used to create an F, the F would be completely filled in instead of it being one vertical line and two disconnected splotches.

Tragically we know that Libby bled copiously, so why wouldn’t a pack of pagans have availed themselves of enough of that poor child’s blood to make a very thorough looking, non-debatable letter F?

Again, I know it’s been discussed ad infinitum but it puzzles me, as I see no clear letter meant as a message or tribute. If time were a factor it would only have taken another few seconds, IMO.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

It's not a rabbit hole...

"Investigators believe the murders happened between 2:30 p.m. and 3:30 p.m. Feb. 13, 2017, the day Abby and Libby went for a hike..."

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen's attorneys accuse police of hiding evidence

Richard Allen's attorneys argue police were too quick in clearing a man with ties to one of the victims and Odinism.

www.indystar.com

It was a rabbit hole for me. I was trying to find out exactly who said it prior to July 2021.

However, I think the defense team is ok with that time. IMO it somehow works for them.

 

[TTF14]

OK. I'm apparently wrong. Oh how painful it is to admit that!
I'll have to go through my cases and see where my thinking went wrong.

I don't think you were wrong. At least not entirely.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Why do. People think this is something to with a cult? If there is runes or anything ritualistic that might have been put there to throw people off the trail! It wouldn't be a first.

 

[AugustWest]

Wow that's very interesting info. So if you plea guilty with no plea agreement, you can still appeal. Maybe that's something involved here with RA's case? He won't (his lawyers telling him not to) sign a plea agreement, will only agree to plea guilty without signing an agreement so he still has an appeal track?

You cannot appeal a conviction, only the sentence, if you plead guilty in Indiana. An informed and willful decision to plead guilty represents a waiver of the right to appeal of conviction.

 

[justtrish]

RA has not entered a guilty plea at this time. If he agrees to a plea deal, he can still appeal his sentence.

IMO there is nothing to be gained by him if he makes a deal.

Maybe something along the lines of he gets to decide where he serves his time? Maybe he could get something like that in exchange for the guilty plea? Or if he really did want to unburden himself from this, maybe just for his own self knowing he is trying to do the right thing now so the families of the victims don't have to go through a trial. So maybe he won't gain a lesser sentence or something like that, but a deal can could benefit him in some other way.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Maybe something along the lines of he gets to decide where he serves his time? Maybe he could get something like that in exchange for the guilty plea? Or if he really did want to unburden himself from this, maybe just for his own self knowing he is trying to do the right thing now so the families of the victims don't have to go through a trial. So maybe he won't gain a lesser sentence or something like that, but a deal can could benefit him in some other way.

IMO If he's guilty and takes a plea for the families, then Yes, that would probably benefit him in some way.

Protocol is men who are sentenced to time in prison first go through Reception Diagnostic Center in Hendricks Co., IN where it's determined where they will serve their time. This often takes weeks. I have no idea if the lower courts can bypass that step.

Lower courts can tell a sentenced person that if they stay out of trouble and do whatever the court requires, they may consider a sentence modification in X amount of time. I can't imagine the P offering anything that will entice RA to accept a plea.

 

[TTF14]

DBM

 

[tlcya]

I think that the rope was at the location before the crime. Trash, detritus of farm life. Whether it was used by the offender at any point in the crime, I don't know, but I think the DT theory of the girls being strung up is wildly speculative and doesn't fit the little we know of the physical evidence.

The other thing I do know is that there's no sign in the released stills of BG that makes me believe he's carrying a length of rope long enough to restrain both girls.

So if it was used at any point, I think it was a found object that was useful, not something he brought to the crime scene.

If the girls were bound tightly enough to restrain them at any point, then I would expect there to be evidence. Bruising, fibre transfer, etc.

MOO

IF the girls were bound or otherwise restrained for any length of time zip ties would be much easier to carry into and out of the crime scene unnoticed. However, I am not convinced anything aside from threats and fear were used to gain the girls' cooperation. JMO

Agree, nothing in the crime scene appears to indicate the girls were either strung up and drained of blood (preposterous baloney hinted at by DT not at all based in fact) or removed from the crime scene, killed elsewhere and returned there later. It is the stuff of fiction.

I don't know if I believe the girls were restrained in any way aside from having a gun pointed at them, but if they were, my money is on zip ties.

 

[TTF14]

I’m anxious to know what so many are talking about, that the P “has the goods” on RA.

Simple. He was arrested. Therefore, the Prosecution must "have the goods." End of story. Let's just get to the sentencing phase.



IMO MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I think I believe the D on this, that there is no connection between RA and these cultists. I haven’t ruled out that there may be a connection between RA and KK, although that’s not based on anything solid, just a possibility. I’m anxious to know what so many are talking about, that the P “has the goods” on RA. I’m not confident they do, but I’m willing to keep an open mind if there’s some indisputable evidence. All MOO.

My "indisputable evidence" meter is a hair above empty. I'm down for DNA and that's about it.
What would it be for you?