Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[TTF14]

there are pictures of searchers crossing the creek the day after they went missing and water appears to come waist high or below.[ I will look for it again]

And the female homeowner of a home right there said that the water at that time was pretty low at that part of the creek.[ I will try and find it and bring it here. ]

I'm aware. No need to find links.

My point is, the water was not ankle, or even knee, deep. It would have been past waist-high for the girls. Well, RA too since he's a shorty. I was not implying it was over anybody's head.

IMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

What do you think...people pulling chains because it's obvious the Odin SODDI is demolished? That's my opinion, games being played by the Defense no doubt, with their SM buddies. I would not doubt it at all. AJMO

 

[TTF14]

What do you think...people pulling chains because it's obvious the Odin SODDI is demolished? That's my opinion, games being played by the Defense no doubt, with their SM buddies. I would not doubt it at all. AJMO

Not sure what you mean. Pulling chains? SM buddies? Do you have links to explain what you mean?

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

Move on from any discussion of EF ... they are NOT a suspect.

Thank you.

 

[Tealgrove]

Hey everyone,

Move on from any discussion of EF ... they are NOT a suspect.

Thank you.

Thanks Sillybilly.

May we continue discussing BH?

Thanks again.

 

[katydid23]

DBM

 

[Arkay]

Just my opinion, but I cannot conceive of any way that a young girl, in the throes of bleeding out from being slaughtered, would have the wherewithal to write anything cogent.

Not on a tree, not initials, nothing…I doubt she was trying to do anything other than stanch her blood flow, (a losing battle of course), and clutching, leaning or falling against the tree as her strength and her life ebbed away.

Justice for you, Abby. Justice for you, Libby.

 

[TTF14]

Just my opinion, but I cannot conceive of any way that a young girl, in the throes of bleeding out from being slaughtered, would have the wherewithal to write anything cogent.

Not on a tree, not initials, nothing…I doubt she was trying to do anything other than stanch her blood flow, (a losing battle of course), and clutching, leaning or falling against the tree as her strength and her life ebbed away.

Justice for you, Abby. Justice for you, Libby.

Without her fingerprints, we have no proof that "she" even touched that tree.

IMO MOO

 

[katydid23]

Without her fingerprints, we have no proof that "she" even touched that tree.

IMO MOO

It's her blood isn't it? How else is it going to get there unless the killer painted it on there. But a blood splatter expert said it did not look like it was painted. It looked like a natural transference of blood.

I will go with the expert at this point.

 

[TTF14]

It's her blood isn't it? How else is it going to get there unless the killer painted it on there. But a blood splatter expert said it did not look like it was painted. It looked like a natural transference of blood.

I will go with the expert at this point.

I would be much more apt to "go with the epxert" if there was any indication Libby's palm or fingerprints were on that tree.

Or maybe even if he'd recorded his very recent experiment. So odd that he didn't. He went to great lengths to use his own blood he had drawn professionally, yet didn't record the experiment....what?!

IMO MOO

 

[justtrish]

Without her fingerprints, we have no proof that "she" even touched that tree.

IMO MOO

I'd be curious if someone would even leave fingerprints on a tree in a situation like this. I am not expert, but I've followed enough cases to know that usually it's the oil from fingers that makes it possible to leave a print usually on a certain type of surface.. like doors, walls, cars.. things metal and easy to get prints off of. It seems tree bark might be a surface that isn't one that would be easy to get prints from. What would likely be left is DNA though.. so I'm sure it's proven to be her blood at this point and if anyone else's DNA was mixed with hers, I'm sure the defense would have mentioned that by now.

 

[Sillybilly]

Thanks Sillybilly.

May we continue discussing BH?

Thanks again.

Depends on what context. Members should not be making insinuations, direct or indirect accusations against any individual who is not named as a POI/suspect, or charged with a crime in relation to this case.

Members may discuss what is said in the Franks Motion but may NOT speculate on the involvement of any other individual who has not been charged. The ONLY person charged is RA.

 

[TTF14]

I'd be curious if someone would even leave fingerprints on a tree in a situation like this.

Probably not. Which would make it more crucial for the "blood splatter expert" to have bolstered his claims by recording his experiment he took the time and effort to procure his own blood for. Of course, maybe he did record it and we just don't know it.

IMO MOO

 

[Arkay]

I'd be curious if someone would even leave fingerprints on a tree in a situation like this. I am not expert, but I've followed enough cases to know that usually it's the oil from fingers that makes it possible to leave a print usually on a certain type of surface.. like doors, walls, cars.. things metal and easy to get prints off of. It seems tree bark might be a surface that isn't one that would be easy to get prints from. What would likely be left is DNA though.. so I'm sure it's proven to be her blood at this point and if anyone else's DNA was mixed with hers, I'm sure the defense would have mentioned that by now.

I’m not even sure, if even there were a viable way to leave fingerprints on a tree, that Libby touched the tree with her hands at all. I agree with you that bark may be a tricky place to dust for fingerprints anyway.

Perhaps she did clutch at it, but it’s equally likely she fell against it, leaned against it, or for all we know was shoved against it by her murderer.

I completely agree with you that her DNA is there because it has been scientifically validated as her blood. I don’t see fingerprints/no fingerprints as an important factor.

Her blood is on the tree. I believe she made contact with that tree in some horrible dying fashion, and her blood therefore splattered in a random pattern.

Poor babies. Of course we know we can’t, but I still find myself wishing we could help them both.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

Indiana State Police Lt. Jerry Holeman also gave damning testimony about Allen’s alleged confessions, telling the court a fellow inmate had come forward to claim that Allen had not only confessed – but had revealed his chosen murder weapon.

Allen allegedly claimed he killed Libby and Abby with a boxcutter and disposed of it by throwing it in a dumpster outside CVS.
Prosecutors say Delphi murders suspect confessed 60 times.

Other indicators included that the cause of death according to Perlmutter was that the girls’ throats were slit with a sharp object. Perlmutter also said that the murder weapon, a ceremonial knife was a part of the case, but the official weapon is not known in the case.
https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/midwest/delphi-murders-ritualistic-killings-details/

I am reasonably certain an expert can testify as to whether the type of blade used is one that might be found on a bladed knife, say one meant for ritual sacrifice versus a box cutter. I look forward to trial and hope the state asks Perlmutter if she considered a boxcutter a ceremonial knife.

I’d be interested to know WHEN he says he did this? I would also like to know if anyone SAW him do this? I’d settle for a video of him having done this on CCTV?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Does anybody have a link to a good resource of what was said during last court session, thanks

The media thread has several posts (starting at #307) with links to reports from the 3 day hearing. Hope this helps.

IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION #2

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. – Special Judge Fran Gull will not disqualify herself from the case surrounding Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen. Allen, charged with four counts of murder in the February 2017 deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi, is set to go...

www.websleuths.com

 

[katydid23]

I would be much more apt to "go with the epxert" if there was any indication Libby's palm or fingerprints were on that tree.

Or maybe even if he'd recorded his very recent experiment. So odd that he didn't. He went to great lengths to use his own blood he had drawn professionally, yet didn't record the experiment....what?!

IMO MOO

The hearing is not an actual trial. He will have much more time to go in depth with his testimony then. He probably does have video evidence but there was no time in the hearing for anything like that.

All we heard was a preview of what his testimony will be. IMO

He explained very clearly why there was no finger or palm prints on the bark of a tree. It is impossible to pick up on bumpy, grooved surfaces like that.

 

[sunshineray]

Thanks Sillybilly.

May we continue discussing BH?

Thanks again.

Well the judge did say he was not a POI, didn't she, in one of her recent rulings?

 

[sunshineray]

It's her blood isn't it? How else is it going to get there unless the killer painted it on there. But a blood splatter expert said it did not look like it was painted. It looked like a natural transference of blood.

I will go with the expert at this point.

That same expert also said the blood spatter pattern on the tree, where it was and pattern led him to believe Libby fell to her knees by the tree. What you say makes perfect sense to me. MO

 

[Spartygirl]

Well the judge did say he was not a POI, didn't she, in one of her recent rulings?

Correct !!
All the Odinist theory characters were CLEARED from the last 2 hearings.
So we can put that theory to rest now. JMO