Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #196

[tlcya]

My Opinion Only...It could help, as FromGermany1 implied, to validate aspects of RA's confessions in the minds of the jurors. The Defense, IMO, will try and bring up the BIG, bad terrain as a how could such a small, little man like RA have handled it all...like the first FM tried to do, over and over again.
All Just My Opinion

exactly, both parties will be trying to describe their theories of what did or did not happen in this natural setting. I think it will help the jury to actually physically see it for themselves, even with the changes that have happened in the years since the murders.

This scene is a very real place and the last the girls ever saw. I feel like it's important for the jury to see it for themselves, so it is equally real in their minds.

 

[shonyakay]

I’m shocked the defense filed a properly worded, sanely intended motion on RA’s behalf that appears to be actually on his behalf.
Maybe they actually finally settled into trying to defend the man instead of attempting to win a Pulitzer Prize for fiction.

Or maybe they just want to confuse the jury because it has changed quite a bit since 2017.

The jury won't be able to get to the side of the bridge where these girls' were ordered down the hill at gun point. They won't be able to go down the hill and walk to the edge of that side of the creek where these girls' most likely crossed.

 

[Vaderman]

Didn't some of the jury in the Murdaugh case come out and say the field trip to the crime scene is what solidified their "guilty" vote? If I remember correctly, that was the defense's idea, as well. Probably good for the jury to see those three words that have haunted the case for so long.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I thought it was interesting that they are now stating prosecution is “alleging” that RA parked at CPS.
Is DT tryout to change the place he parked?
Just curious with the wording in the recent motion.

 

[WildHuncher]

Could there be issues with compelling a property owner to allow a jury visit to a crime scene on their private land?

 

[shonyakay]

I thought it was interesting that they are now stating prosecution is “alleging” that RA parked at CPS.
Is DT tryout to change the place he parked?
Just curious with the wording in the recent motion.

RA has some 'splaining to do. Like where that elusive farm bureau building he says he parked at is lol.

 

[tlcya]

Could there be issues with compelling a property owner to allow a jury visit to a crime scene on their private land?

excellent question because I don't know the answer and it could factor into this most recent motion's odds of being granted greatly IMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Or maybe they just want to confuse the jury because it has changed quite a bit since 2017.

The jury won't be able to get to the side of the bridge where these girls' were ordered down the hill at gun point. They won't be able to go down the hill and walk to the edge of that side of the creek where these girls' most likely crossed.

I am confident the prosecution will be reminding the jurors before and after the trip of all the changes that have been made.
The jurors should have access to the DTH side of the bridge by parking and walking through private property.
I would think one real issue is that the area is large and some areas to see have to be walked to and the actually crime scene will be tough to get to. Some jurors may not physically be able to even get to the north side of the MHB. Few may be able to see the crime scene
Then you have a situation where some jurors review the entire area and some see very little. That cannot be viewed as equitable in my opinion. All jurors must see all the evidence. Jurors do not get to take a day off, or opt out of hard testimony. They all have to see it.
I thought it was a pretty straight forward request by the defense, but without accommodations to make sure everybody sees the same things, this might not fly. I sure would wary of it if I was NMcL.

 

[girlhasnoname]

RA has some 'splaining to do. Like where that elusive farm bureau building he says he parked at is lol.

That didn't exist as it was the old CPS building. I think RA said that intentionally.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I am confident the prosecution will be reminding the jurors before and after the trip of all the changes that have been made.
The jurors should have access to the DTH side of the bridge by parking and walking through private property.
I would think one real issue is that the area is large and some areas to see have to be walked to and the actually crime scene will be tough to get to. Some jurors may not physically be able to even get to the north side of the MHB. Few may be able to see the crime scene
Then you have a situation where some jurors review the entire area and some see very little. That cannot be viewed as equitable in my opinion. All jurors must see all the evidence. Jurors do not get to take a day off, or opt out of hard testimony. They all have to see it.
I thought it was a pretty straight forward request by the defense, but without accommodations to make sure everybody sees the same things, this might not fly. I sure would wary of it if I was NMcL.

Apples to Oranges comparison at this late date.

JMO

 

[shonyakay]

I am confident the prosecution will be reminding the jurors before and after the trip of all the changes that have been made.
The jurors should have access to the DTH side of the bridge by parking and walking through private property.
I would think one real issue is that the area is large and some areas to see have to be walked to and the actually crime scene will be tough to get to. Some jurors may not physically be able to even get to the north side of the MHB. Few may be able to see the crime scene
Then you have a situation where some jurors review the entire area and some see very little. That cannot be viewed as equitable in my opinion. All jurors must see all the evidence. Jurors do not get to take a day off, or opt out of hard testimony. They all have to see it.
I thought it was a pretty straight forward request by the defense, but without accommodations to make sure everybody sees the same things, this might not fly. I sure would wary of it if I was NMcL.

I get what you are saying I just think the defense is being shady like they have been from the beginning imo.

 

[ClearAhead]

The bridge now as of 2024.

The video of Monon High bridge begins at about 1:28. It appears only the portion over the river has been improved, then there’s a barrier and a big gap preventing access onto the original rickety plank portion of the bridge which is high above the land. Therefore the jury could walk part ways but I’d question how they could get to the point to where the girls were ordered DTH, if this video accurately presents the improvements.

MOO

 

[shonyakay]

That didn't exist as it was the old CPS building. I think RA said that intentionally.

JMO

Exactly my point. He also says he walked from there to the freedom bridge.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Didn't some of the jury in the Murdaugh case come out and say the field trip to the crime scene is what solidified their "guilty" vote? If I remember correctly, that was the defense's idea, as well. Probably good for the jury to see those three words that have haunted the case for so long.

True, but the area at the kennels where Paul and Maggie were shot had not structurally changed. The MHB has had an overhaul since 2017. New railings, new concrete supports, hardly any of the original dilapidated old boards left (if any now) etc.

Curious for sure.

JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

I am pleased to see this motion by the D team !!
(shocked and pleased LOL)

They actually may be preparing for the trial, finally.

Have them follow the footpath of the girls and of BG=RA from beginning to where the girls' lives were brutally ended.

They may have to make adjustments if the end of the bridge and "down the hill" sections are now closed off and they wouldn't have the jurors walk through the creek but they can take them over to CS via cemetery as RL's property (or whoever new owner is now) is Private property and they would need permission, I would think, but perhaps that is an option also.

Prosecutors would hopefully have provided map and pinpointed where witnesses saw RA PRIOR to jurors going to CS and then reiterate the witnesses location once they get back so it will hopefully make sense to the jurors.

#justiceforLibby&Abby

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I get what you are saying I just think the defense is being shady like they have been from the beginning imo.

They are definitely being shady.
The more I look at it, the only way the prosecution should agree with it is if defense and prosecution and defense are forbidden to talk with the jurors, and all jurors are able to access and view every relevant place in that area.

 

[Spartygirl]

Could there be issues with compelling a property owner to allow a jury visit to a crime scene on their private land?

That is what I mentioned also in my post but they can go through the cemetery also to get there if the property owner doesn't give permission. JMO

 

[photographer4]

Libby would have lost her shoe while crossing the creek or possibly scurrying up the muddy bank. I doubt she lost it on bridge side since it was caught up in bark/mulch debris closer to the discovery side of the creek.

Another option is the murderer could have tossed those particular items in the creek from the discovery/kill site of the creek after the murders, not knowing they would get caught up.

Hey by chance, do you have a link to where the shoe was found? I know some things were found in the creek not sure which things were and which were not - a lot of what I read were rumours and I”m unsure which are correct and which are well, not?

 

[photographer4]

The bridge has changed and you can't even walk to the side that they were abducted at and ordered "down the hill."

I don’t think they can actually cross over the bridge anymore as you said, but the motion suggests they view the trail from Freedom to Monon, then to view the area from where they “were allegedly abducted” and then the area where the bodies were found. I don’t think they were asking anyone to traverse the bridge - can you imagine? If I were told to do this as a juror I would be like NOPE… sorry… get yourself an alternate juror! LOL.

It seems a bit of a gamble to me to bring RA along to the scene - his facial expressions and body language / any possible eye contact or lack thereof, any verbalizations he might make — those would all have some sort of effect on a jury imo… I’m unsure what to make of that idea really. Interesting move!

All mooooo.

 

[photographer4]

That is what I mentioned also in my post but they can go through the cemetery also to get there if the property owner doesn't give permission. JMO

Not super familiar with the area - but isn’t the area where the kids were found on the back of a citizen’s private property? Literally, his backyard? So if the court were to order a jury walk of the area where the kids were found, I imagine they’d notify the land owner, and then that owner could then file an objection or something, no?

Another question: what sort of insurance would the property owner have to have if a citizen on the jury, or a court staff / lawyer / corrections staff or RA himself were to get injured trying to walk any part of the private property in an effort to view the area where the kids were found? Would the viewers have automatic coverage via the court? Or… How would that work? I imagine any injury on public property would be the city insurance covering off any claims?

Not a lawyer, no experience with juries walking the scene and none with injuries that may arise as a result of this so thought I’d ask in case anyone here happens to know.