Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #196

[shonyakay]

Does anyone know if the procecution asked to have the modifications to the bridge delayed until after the trial? I feel like it would have been important for jurors to see how it actually was at the time of the murders.

I'm not sure but I doubt it was ever a viable option in this case for the jury to visit the bridge and crime scene in this case. The area was/is surrounded by private land and that dilapidated
wooden bridge was/is not safe by any means.

 

[sunshineray]

I don’t think they can actually cross over the bridge anymore as you said, but the motion suggests they view the trail from Freedom to Monon, then to view the area from where they “were allegedly abducted” and then the area where the bodies were found. I don’t think they were asking anyone to traverse the bridge - can you imagine? If I were told to do this as a juror I would be like NOPE… sorry… get yourself an alternate juror! LOL.

It seems a bit of a gamble to me to bring RA along to the scene - his facial expressions and body language / any possible eye contact or lack thereof, any verbalizations he might make — those would all have some sort of effect on a jury imo… I’m unsure what to make of that idea really. Interesting move!

All mooooo.

The girls were kidnapped, not abducted. There is a difference and the charges against RA show that. I was also using "abducted" but have realized now, I was wrong. The girls were taken under force, against their will and with ill intent to do them harm resulting in their murders. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Not a lawyer either lol but I highly doubt that JG will allow the jury to visit bridge/crime scene, but I digress.

I was looking at Indiana law and prejudicial evidence is when it raises a substantial danger of
confusion of the issues -- confusing or misleading jury about facts or law.

Also waste of time is mentioned regarding prejudicial evidence.

There is voluminous photographic evidence of the whole area and the scene of the crime and how it actually appeared on February 14, 2017.

I was just thinking, don't they do a photographic mapping of the scene anyway? I forget what it's called...is it LiDAR? Can't that be used by the jury?

 

[shonyakay]

I was just thinking, don't they do a photographic mapping of the scene anyway? I forget what it's called...is it LiDAR? Can't that be used by the jury?

I'm not familiar with that name but you are probably right.

Didn't the police have a helicopter in the air as well on February 14, 2017? They probably took aerial pictures as well.

 

[sunshineray]

I'm not familiar with that name but you are probably right.

Didn't the police have a helicopter in the air as well on February 14, 2017? They probably took aerial pictures as well.

I found it...

AI Overview


Light detection and ranging (LiDAR) mapping is a technology that uses scanners to create three-dimensional (3D) models of crime scenes. These 3D models can be used by investigators, judges, and juries to better understand the scene and piece together events that occurred

 

[Melted]

RA has some 'splaining to do. Like where that elusive farm bureau building he says he parked at is lol.

I have pinned where the “old farm bureau building” was before they finished construction on the new one, it was turned into a parking lot

Farm Bureau to build new building - Carroll County Comet

 

[m00c0w]

I have pinned where the “old farm bureau building” was before they finished construction on the new one, it was turned into a parking lot

Farm Bureau to build new building - Carroll County Comet

From what I can gather, the old farm bureau building was long gone by February 2017. That he parked next to an “old building” seems to indicate he was not parked at the location of the old Farm Bureau building, since that had been turned into a parking lot by that point.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Does anyone know if the procecution asked to have the modifications to the bridge delayed until after the trial? I feel like it would have been important for jurors to see how it actually was at the time of the murders.

I don’t think so. The bridge restoration to trail project had been in the works since at least 2017, even before the murders, and long before RA’s arrest.

Indiana Landmarks Announces Rescue of Monon High Bridge - Indiana Landmarks

Repairs scheduled for endangered span built in 1891.

www.indianalandmarks.org

Work was already in progress in 2022, prior to his arrest.

Sept 2023​

DELPHI READY TO DEDICATE REMADE MONON HIGH BRIDGE TRAIL​

The renovated Monon High Bridge Trail, a picturesque, 1.5-mile stretch that played a central role in one of Delphi’s darkest days, will be dedicated Wednesday after more than $1 million went into improving the community trail and making an old rail bridge safer to access.

Much of the work was done in 2022 on a project that combined efforts by the city, Indiana Landmarks and the state’s Next Level Trails program, though parts continued into this year.

Delphi ready to dedicate remade Monon High Bridge trail

Work adds paved paths, overlook on a bridge and trail that figured prominently in 2017 murders. Plus, what Indiana’s new secretary of commerce says about taking Tippecanoe Co. water for LEAP District

www.basedinlafayette.com

Sept 2023
Wednesday afternoon's dedication ceremony and ribbon cutting began with a prayer from Pastor Todd Ladd of Dephi United Methodist Church.

"Now, we also want to pray for the reclamation. The reclamation of the trail, the reclamation of the bridge, but also the reclamation for our community," Ladd said as attendees bowed their heads. "Lord, we know that difficult things have taken place here, but we believe fully in your transforming power and the restorative work not only of landmarks, but also of hearts and souls."

Monon High Bridge Trail reopens to public after reconstruction

A project six years in the making, the Monon High Bridge Trail is now safely accessible to the community of Delphi.

www.wlfi.com

 

[shonyakay]

I found it...

AI Overview

View attachment 533100
Light detection and ranging (LiDAR) mapping is a technology that uses scanners to create three-dimensional (3D) models of crime scenes. These 3D models can be used by investigators, judges, and juries to better understand the scene and piece together events that occurred

That's awesome.

 

[pearl]

If jury visitation of the crime scenes is allowed, I think LE should close down the areas of the crime scenes until after a jury visitation. The site could easily be tampered with before the visitation. I am not saying that would happen but anything and everything has happened to delay bringing the case to court by the defense. If budget money is not available to post a guard then cameras should be used to monitor.

 

[sunshineray]

I don’t think so. The bridge restoration to trail project had been in the works since at least 2017, even before the murders, and long before RA’s arrest.

Indiana Landmarks Announces Rescue of Monon High Bridge - Indiana Landmarks

Repairs scheduled for endangered span built in 1891.

www.indianalandmarks.org

Work was already in progress in 2022, prior to his arrest.

Sept 2023​

DELPHI READY TO DEDICATE REMADE MONON HIGH BRIDGE TRAIL​

The renovated Monon High Bridge Trail, a picturesque, 1.5-mile stretch that played a central role in one of Delphi’s darkest days, will be dedicated Wednesday after more than $1 million went into improving the community trail and making an old rail bridge safer to access.

Much of the work was done in 2022 on a project that combined efforts by the city, Indiana Landmarks and the state’s Next Level Trails program, though parts continued into this year.

Delphi ready to dedicate remade Monon High Bridge trail

Work adds paved paths, overlook on a bridge and trail that figured prominently in 2017 murders. Plus, what Indiana’s new secretary of commerce says about taking Tippecanoe Co. water for LEAP District

www.basedinlafayette.com

Sept 2023
Wednesday afternoon's dedication ceremony and ribbon cutting began with a prayer from Pastor Todd Ladd of Dephi United Methodist Church.

"Now, we also want to pray for the reclamation. The reclamation of the trail, the reclamation of the bridge, but also the reclamation for our community," Ladd said as attendees bowed their heads. "Lord, we know that difficult things have taken place here, but we believe fully in your transforming power and the restorative work not only of landmarks, but also of hearts and souls."

Monon High Bridge Trail reopens to public after reconstruction

A project six years in the making, the Monon High Bridge Trail is now safely accessible to the community of Delphi.

www.wlfi.com

But they haven't refurbished the whole bridge yet, right? Just a small section over the creek?

 

[shonyakay]

Does the Defense team visit here and read these posts?

I just think how ironic it is that we were literally just discussing where RA (if guilty) may have left the crime scene from to get back to his car and then the DT files this.

 

[photographer4]

So Libby was wearing jeans. Thanks for finding this FrostedGlass.. GH was one of the people sent the crime scene photos so he would know if Abby was dressed in her tight skinny jeans or a much bigger cut/style jean. MO

ETA as someone did answer this and I didn’t notice the answer until I had posted. Ty.

Just wondering - so GH says he saw the crime scene photos right? And he’s discussing what they show if I understood the transcript correctly? So how did he actually get crime scene photos? Are these the ones from the time Mw took them from the lawyers office? Or some others that are unverified? Thanks in advance as I can’t listen / watch the show. I may have misunderstood something in the transcript given my need of coffee.

 

[photographer4]

So Libby was wearing jeans. Thanks for finding this FrostedGlass.. GH was one of the people sent the crime scene photos so he would know if Abby was dressed in her tight skinny jeans or a much bigger cut/style jean. MO

Oh. I’ll edit my last post as you just answered my question.

I’m confused a bit though. If the photos he received were supposed to have been under a publication ban or some other order to prevent public access - how is he allowed to discuss the contents on his social media show? Genuine question as I try to understand is all. Ty in advance.

 

[shonyakay]

Just wondering - so GH says he saw the crime scene photos right? And he’s discussing what they show if I understood the transcript correctly? So how did he actually get crime scene photos? Are these the ones from the time Mw took them from the lawyers office? Or some others that are unverified? Thanks in advance as I can’t listen / watch the show. I may have misunderstood something in the transcript given my need of coffee.

I believe from the MW leak. I think a few people who were well known Delphi true crime Podcasters were sent these pictures. That is what I recall from my recollection.

 

[photographer4]

I believe from the MW leak. I think a few people who were well known Delphi true crime Podcasters were sent these pictures. That is what I recall from my recollection.

Right so when he discussed this on his show - how come it’s not considered a bad thing but it is considered a bad thing that MW took and sent out the photos? Does the court publication ban or seal not apply for some reason? I know you may not know just a general question. Any lawyers here who can help me to better understand?

 

[photographer4]

I'm not sure but I doubt it was ever a viable option in this case for the jury to visit the bridge and crime scene in this case. The area was/is surrounded by private land and that dilapidated
wooden bridge was/is not safe by any means.

I don’t think the judge will want the jury and court staff or whoever all is needed to do the field trip to venture into the area where the bodies were found given it’s said to be difficult terrain to navigate (moo). It’s an interesting motion by the D imo because if she grants the entire motion (vs just the trail from freedom to monon high bridge and the area at the end where the abduction and DTH happened), then the jury may find it difficult and think it would be hard for RA to do the crime solo as the state has put forward.

But if she denies the trip or even just the place where the bodies were located then I wonder if the D will tell the jury something like ‘the area is so tricky to get to that it poses a risk to your health and safety so great that JG denied our request to bring you there!’ Potentially followed by something like: ‘if the court finds it too risky for you to visit the scene in a non stressful event then how would RA this tiny guy manage it while controlling two kids on his own?’

Totally moo / speculation on how either a granted or denied on the body location could help their case.

 

[shonyakay]

But if she denies the trip or even just the place where the bodies were located then I wonder if the D will tell the jury something like ‘the area is so tricky to get to that it poses a risk to your health and safety so great that JG denied our request to bring you there!’ Potentially followed by something like: ‘if the court finds it too risky for you to visit the scene in a non stressful event then how would RA this tiny guy manage it while controlling two kids on his own?’

Snipped by me: Would the jury even hear about it if it is ultimately denied?

Imo that won't fly in regards to the defense's possible supposition that RA couldn't have done it due to the landscape issues, because we know the girls' crossed that bridge, were more than likely made to go down the hill, and ended up where they were found.

Edited to add: Don't forget they were at gun point according to the state.

 

[photographer4]

The girls were kidnapped, not abducted. There is a difference and the charges against RA show that. I was also using "abducted" but have realized now, I was wrong. The girls were taken under force, against their will and with ill intent to do them harm resulting in their murders. AJMO

Oh! Gosh I wasn’t quoting you - the “allegedly abducted” is actually how the D worded it in their motion. I am sorry if this was unclear - I should have added this in brackets I guess to help clarify.

Here is the post where someone included the motion in a link:
Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #196'
Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #196

And for ease of access: a screen shot with the bit I was referring to highlighted. Sorry if you felt attacked or anything - not intentional.

 

[shonyakay]

Oh! Gosh I wasn’t quoting you - the “allegedly abducted” is actually how the D worded it in their motion. I am sorry if this was unclear - I should have added this in brackets I guess to help clarify.

Here is the post where someone included the motion in a link:
Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #196'
Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #196

And for ease of access: a screen shot with the bit I was referring to highlighted. Sorry if you felt attacked or anything - not intentional.View attachment 533137

I thought kidnapped and abducted meant the same thing.