Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #197

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.

Richard Allen has been arrested and charged with the murders of Abby and Libby

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

PICTURES OF ABBY AND LIBBY
Link to post with all threads 1 - 98 (Courtesy of margarita25)
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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tricia]

Mod Note:
For general JBC II discussions please use his thread. In Abby & Libby’s thread, JBC II should only be discussed in the context of a possible connection to Abby & Libby’s case.
Thanks Everyone!

JBC II Thread:
IN - James Chadwell II, 42, arrested after girl 9, found in his home, Lafayette, 19 Apr 2021 #3

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

Click here for The Rules

 

[Sillybilly]

I’m self reporting this post to get clarification from the Mods as to what may or may not be discussed now in light of Judge Gull’s ruling.

A lot of names have been thrown around so I think it’s important that we know how to move forward.

From the ruling:

"The case law is quite clear that the nexus must not be based on speculation, conjecture, rumors, or hearsay, but rather on admissible evidence"

As the Court has not seen any "admissible evidence" to support such speculation, this equates to / aligns with WS policy that speculation must be based on some "known fact".

Going forward, any general discussion of Odinism or speculation on any of the named individuals is off limits.

 

[Knitty]

Please continue here.

 

[sunshineray]

Some posters in the last thread were asking about the (what I call) "Bench Photo" taken by one of the group of teenage girls right before they encountered BG coming into the Delphi trails from the Freedom Bridge area.

I'm linking the PCA. On the top of page three is the info about that encounter and the bench photo time stamped at 1:26pm.

Court documents released in Delphi murder case: Read the probable cause affidavit here

The affidavit does not indicate how Libby German or Abby Williams were killed Feb. 13, 2017. Read the probable cause affidavit here.

www.indystar.com

 

[arielilane]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1839395923232985275

 

[FrostedGlass]

Some posters in the last thread were asking about the (what I call) "Bench Photo" taken by one of the group of teenage girls right before they encountered BG coming into the Delphi trails from the Freedom Bridge area.

I'm linking the PCA. On the top of page three is the info about that encounter and the bench photo time stamped at 1:26pm.

Court documents released in Delphi murder case: Read the probable cause affidavit here

The affidavit does not indicate how Libby German or Abby Williams were killed Feb. 13, 2017. Read the probable cause affidavit here.

www.indystar.com

There were 20 minutes from point A to point B. Does that work with the distance they walked to where they were sighted by BB?
(snip)
Through the statements and photographs of the juvenile females and the statement of ',and were at the south east edge of the trail at 12:43p.m, east of Freedom Bridge at 1:26 pm., and walked across the former railroad overpass over State Road 25 after 1:26 p.m. and before 1:46 p.m.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

 

[sunshineray]

There were 20 minutes from point A to point B. Does that work with the distance they walked to where they were sighted by BB?
(snip)
Through the statements and photographs of the juvenile females and the statement of ',and were at the south east edge of the trail at 12:43p.m, east of Freedom Bridge at 1:26 pm., and walked across the former railroad overpass over State Road 25 after 1:26 p.m. and before 1:46 p.m.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

I wasn't talking about teenagers Abby and Libby nor BB, just the teenage girls who saw BG (RA, IMO) entering the trails as they were leaving them, approximated (by one of them) to be near the time of the "Bench photo" of 1:26pm.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Does anyone have a reasonable explanation as to why RA decided to change his story, his timeline regarding his visit?

In February 2017, with a fresh recollection, RA told DD that he was on the trail from 13:30 until about 15:30.

Three teen girls were able to validate this by recollecting their personal encounter with someone that matches RAs physical likeness, down to similar clothing. Furthermore, RA himself verifies this encounter.

6 years later, he now says he has was present from Noon until approximately 13:30.

JMO, this points to him being dishonest. If he is innocent, why change the time?

It doesn't add up. It looks and feels guilty to me.

JMO

 

[Justice101]

Does anyone have a reasonable explanation as to why RA decided to change his story, his timeline regarding his visit?

In February 2017, with a fresh recollection, RA told DD that he was on the trail from 13:30 until about 15:30.

Three teen girls were able to validate this by recollecting their personal encounter with someone that matches RAs physical likeness, down to similar clothing. Furthermore, RA himself verifies this encounter.

6 years later, he now says he has was present from Noon until approximately 13:30.

JMO, this points to him being dishonest. If he is innocent, why change the time?

It doesn't add up. It looks and feels guilty to me.

JMO

I thought I had read that his initial interview put him within the murder time frame. The interview was maybe before the time was told by LE.

And that his second interview he changed to time so as to not be in the right timeframe.

But maybe that is not accurate

 

[Vern]

New thread so a reminder that today marks D-17 in what has been a very slow march towards the beginning of justice for Abby & Libby. The pace is quickening. May they forever be remembered for their beautiful souls and the legacy left to Deplhi with their Memorial Park.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I thought I had read that his initial interview put him within the murder time frame. The interview was maybe before the time was told by LE.

And that his second interview he changed to time so as to not be in the right timeframe.

But maybe that is not accurate

You are absolutely correct.
I am just wondering if anyone can provide a legitimate reason for the time change?

We know that our memories are fresh ( or better at least) within a 24 hour time period vs 6 plus years later.

There has been many mentions regarding "guilty knowledge" in this case.

If this isn't the absolute definition of those words, I don't know what is.

If I were a juror, this would add several points towards a guilty verdict.

AJMO

 

[photographer4]

You are absolutely correct.
I am just wondering if anyone can provide a legitimate reason for the time change?

We know that our memories are fresh ( or better at least) within a 24 hour time period vs 6 plus years later.

There has been many mentions regarding "guilty knowledge" in this case.

If this isn't the absolute definition of those words, I don't know what is.

If I were a juror, this would add several points towards a guilty verdict.

AJMO

Meh. This point we are so close to trial I’d rather no try to guess. I’ll wait for the evidence to show me the way. Moo

 

[Ravenmoon]

Meh. This point we are so close to trial I’d rather no try to guess. I’ll wait for the evidence to show me the way. Moo

Meh?
It's really, IMO, insanely important.
The only reason for him to change the time that he was at the trail was because he desperately hoped that somehow the notes taken didn't reflect what he originally stated.
There has been lots of talk about the witnesses and their reliability, or lack thereof.

But here we have conflicting statements from the accused.

The original one saying, "I was at the trail between 13:30 and 15:30"
Then conveniently changed to say" I left by 13:30".

If he is innocent, changing the time wouldn't be needed.... unless there is a good reason for it. Which is why I asked, what would that reason be?

If it was because he later found a receipt for gas at 13:35 or he remembered that he met a friend for lunch at 13:45, you can bet that the D team wouldn't be waiting for trial to bring it out. They would be screaming that there is proof to collaborate the claim. They are not touching it at all because it is a lie.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

Meh?
It's really, IMO, insanely important.
The only reason for him to change the time that he was at the trail was because he desperately hoped that somehow the notes taken didn't reflect what he originally stated.
There has been lots of talk about the witnesses and their reliability, or lack thereof.

But here we have conflicting statements from the accused.

The original one saying, "I was at the trail between 13:30 and 15:30"
Then conveniently changed to say" I left by 13:30".

If he is innocent, changing the time wouldn't be needed.... unless there is a good reason for it. Which is why I asked, what would that reason be?

If it was because he later found a receipt for gas at 13:35 or he remembered that he met a friend for lunch at 13:45, you can bet that the D team wouldn't be waiting for trial to bring it out. They would be screaming that there is proof to collaborate the claim. They are not touching it at all because it is a lie.

JMO

Right and I'm saying "meh" because at the moment, I don't think we can really know what happened here. We have no idea what was said at the mtg with DD unless of course DD happened to find a recording he thought he had made of it, but couldn't find as of the time of the Franks 1 - Sept 2023. FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host (page 132).

 

[Ravenmoon]

Right and I'm saying "meh" because at the moment, I don't think we can really know what happened here. We have no idea what was said at the mtg with DD unless of course DD happened to find a recording he thought he had made of it, but couldn't find as of the time of the Franks 1 - Sept 2023. FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host (page 132).

His written report is enough.
There would be no reason for DD to fabricate times .

JMO

 

[tlcya]

His written report is enough.
There would be no reason for DD to fabricate times .

JMO

Agreed, and I absolutely agree that there would be every reason for RA to change his timeline after finding out what LE's was.

But meh, trial will be here in 17 days and then a jury will hear it all and decide.

 

[photographer4]

His written report is enough.
There would be no reason for DD to fabricate times .

JMO

His written report is enough if you believe he wrote it down correctly - which, some people do not think he did given the information was, lost in the shuffle I think is how Holeman worded it per the footnotes of the franks: FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

"It also might matter what specifically DD asked RA - eg: they point out in the doc that:
Words matter when talking to someone. For example, if the exchange between Dan Dulin
and Richard Allen was this: “Ric
hard, we think the girls were
abducted between 1:30 and 3:30,
were you on the trail at any point in time between
1:30 and 3:30 pm on February 17?” and Richard
answered “yes”, that does not mean that Richard Allen was actually on the trail the entire time
between 1:30 pm and 3:30 pm. However, Dulin c
ould memorialize that exchange as Richard
claiming he was on the trail the entire 2-hour time span. If so, Dulin’s report would be inaccurate."

We don't know if DD asked him what time he was there at, OR if he asked, what time he left at. We know nothing, except that DD wrote down RA and a streetname. They met at a grocery store. Sounds super informal. Sounds as well like RA called the tip line to say he had been there. We don't even know how long they conversed for or what other things RA may have said etc....

I cannot for the life of me imagine WHY on earth the police would not have asked RA to come in to give a statement as a man who had been there that day??? Why was this done so informally? So I mean, yeah, there are some possible* problems with the original times noted that I want to know more about - hopefully more will be learned soon. In the meantime, I don't think we'll hit on the right reason imo........ NOTE: not saying the timeline isn't important. I'm saying that we're so close... we may as well just wait to find out.... mooo