Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #197

[Ravenmoon]

I, admittedly, am far from knowledgeable on phones and the way that they work.

I just learned that if an iphone is factory reset, it shuts off the " find my phone" are turned off .

This really makes me feel terrible. If only the reset waited a week, or if she had a different phone...if only. Not sure what it could or would have helped... but...*sigh*


What to do before you sell, give away, or trade in your iPhone or iPad - Apple Support.

 

[Justice101]

Agreed, and I absolutely agree that there would be every reason for RA to change his timeline after finding out what LE's was.

But meh, trial will be here in 17 days and then a jury will hear it all and decide.

Speaking of the trial.. Are we to the point where the trial can't get delayed? Or is another delay still reasonably possible?

 

[ClearAhead]

Meh?
It's really, IMO, insanely important.
The only reason for him to change the time that he was at the trail was because he desperately hoped that somehow the notes taken didn't reflect what he originally stated.
There has been lots of talk about the witnesses and their reliability, or lack thereof.

But here we have conflicting statements from the accused.

The original one saying, "I was at the trail between 13:30 and 15:30"
Then conveniently changed to say" I left by 13:30".

If he is innocent, changing the time wouldn't be needed.... unless there is a good reason for it. Which is why I asked, what would that reason be?

If it was because he later found a receipt for gas at 13:35 or he remembered that he met a friend for lunch at 13:45, you can bet that the D team wouldn't be waiting for trial to bring it out. They would be screaming that there is proof to collaborate the claim. They are not touching it at all because it is a lie.

JMO

I agree. In my opinion RA has made too many conflicting statements. It’s never good for a defendant if a jury is forced to choose whether the defendant’s statements are honest or is he a deceptive scoundrel who deserves to face consequences for his actions. JMO

Confessions of guilt - True or False?
13:30 to 15:30 at the trail - True or False?
gone by 13:30 - True or False?

Guilty or Not Guilty - True or False

 

[Justice101]

I think the trial will be a slam dunk for the prosecution.

1) Multiple confessions
2) RA placing himself on the bridge in the same clothing as BG at the right time.
3) RA having the same gun and caliber as the bullet found.
4) Eyewitness testimony at the trial.

There are so many people tuning into this case, not because it is hard to solve or understand.. but due to the horrible circumstances the perpetrator did to those two innocent girls.

 

[photographer4]

I think the trial will be a slam dunk for the prosecution.

1) Multiple confessions
2) RA placing himself on the bridge in the same clothing as BG at the right time.
3) RA having the same gun and caliber as the bullet found.
4) Eyewitness testimony at the trial.

There are so many people tuning into this case, not because it is hard to solve or understand.. but due to the horrible circumstances the perpetrator did to those two innocent girls.

I think there are a lot of big issues the D will struggle to get past for sure! I do think RA is the right guy (or one of the right guys if there was more than one guy). I think he is going to be quite shocked he cannot get out of this one. He's gotta be kicking himself for having tipped himself in! LMAO.

 

[Ravenmoon]

His written report is enough if you believe he wrote it down correctly - which, some people do not think he did given the information was, lost in the shuffle I think is how Holeman worded it per the footnotes of the franks: FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF HostView attachment 533922

"It also might matter what specifically DD asked RA - eg: they point out in the doc that:
Words matter when talking to someone. For example, if the exchange between Dan Dulin
and Richard Allen was this: “Ric
hard, we think the girls were
abducted between 1:30 and 3:30,
were you on the trail at any point in time between
1:30 and 3:30 pm on February 17?” and Richard
answered “yes”, that does not mean that Richard Allen was actually on the trail the entire time
between 1:30 pm and 3:30 pm. However, Dulin c
ould memorialize that exchange as Richard
claiming he was on the trail the entire 2-hour time span. If so, Dulin’s report would be inaccurate."

We don't know if DD asked him what time he was there at, OR if he asked, what time he left at. We know nothing, except that DD wrote down RA and a streetname. They met at a grocery store. Sounds super informal. Sounds as well like RA called the tip line to say he had been there. We don't even know how long they conversed for or what other things RA may have said etc....

I cannot for the life of me imagine WHY on earth the police would not have asked RA to come in to give a statement as a man who had been there that day??? Why was this done so informally? So I mean, yeah, there are some possible* problems with the original times noted that I want to know more about - hopefully more will be learned soon. In the meantime, I don't think we'll hit on the right reason imo........ NOTE: not saying the timeline isn't important. I'm saying that we're so close... we may as well just wait to find out.... mooo

I don't believe that DD or any officer would be free to offer any information regarding the actual crime.

RA came forward to provide a statement.

I imagine that DD would jot that information down, ask RA to read and sign it.

It was then, apparently improperly filed. That error cost years of time passage.

Remember that hundreds ( maybe more?) tips were flowing in daily.

It's possible that DD assumed that the tip/ report was looked at and that the case was moving forward.

JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

I think there are a lot of big issues the D will struggle to get past for sure! I do think RA is the right guy (or one of the right guys if there was more than one guy). I think he is going to be quite shocked he cannot get out of this one. He's gotta be kicking himself for having tipped himself in! LMAO.

Yes awhile back there was numerous examples of how known psychopaths personally involved themselves in murders they committed, getting off on the thrill of the deception I suppose. But maybe it’s common to murderers in general, I don’t know.

Because it seems to me that’s exactly what RA did in coming forward to report he’d been at the trails that day but by gosh, didn’t see Libby or Abby at all. JMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

Speaking of the trial.. Are we to the point where the trial can't get delayed? Or is another delay still reasonably possible?

It's my understanding that the defense can ask for a continuance up until the day before jury selection.

Depending on why they ask, the judge decides if it will be granted.

I would imagine if they need more time because of new discovery or because they aren't quite ready because of changes...it could be granted.

@AugustWest
Could you clarify?
Thank you!

 

[photographer4]

I don't believe that DD or any officer would be free to offer any information regarding the actual crime.

RA came forward to provide a statement.

I imagine that DD would jot that information down, ask RA to read and sign it.

It was then, apparently improperly filed. That error cost years of time passage.

Remember that hundreds ( maybe more?) tips were flowing in daily.

It's possible that DD assumed that the tip/ report was looked at and that the case was moving forward.

JMO

I actually have wondered: did RA sign off on whatever DD wrote? If so will he now claim he didn't read it before signing? Or DD's writing was not legible?

 

[photographer4]

It's my understanding that the defense can ask for a continuance up until the day before jury selection.

Depending on why they ask, the judge decides if it will be granted.

I would imagine if they need more time because of new discovery or because they aren't quite ready because of changes...it could be granted.

@AugustWest
Could you clarify?
Thank you!

If they're waiting on more discovery, then the State has some 'splainin to do imo! YIKES if that ends up being a hold up now! moo

 

[statt#1]

Meh?
It's really, IMO, insanely important.
The only reason for him to change the time that he was at the trail was because he desperately hoped that somehow the notes taken didn't reflect what he originally stated.
There has been lots of talk about the witnesses and their reliability, or lack thereof.

But here we have conflicting statements from the accused.

The original one saying, "I was at the trail between 13:30 and 15:30"
Then conveniently changed to say" I left by 13:30".

If he is innocent, changing the time wouldn't be needed.... unless there is a good reason for it. Which is why I asked, what would that reason be?

If it was because he later found a receipt for gas at 13:35 or he remembered that he met a friend for lunch at 13:45, you can bet that the D team wouldn't be waiting for trial to bring it out. They would be screaming that there is proof to collaborate the claim. They are not touching it at all because it is a lie.

JMO

This change of tune is very telling. If the argument is that the original notes taken during questioning were mistakenly recorded, then the point is moot, because nobody would really know the correct time, and so, it wouldn't matter....however, it obviously DID matter, and somewhere, someone thought the original recorded timing WAS, and IS important, as he. or those representing him, advised him, and then he clearly changed the time from that which is originally on the record.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Words DO matter.
Richard Allen has said over 60 times that he killed Libby and Abby.

I believe him.

jmo

 

[photographer4]

Words DO matter.
Richard Allen has said over 60 times that he killed Libby and Abby.

I believe him.

jmo

Well no, he’s said this to his family and staff at the facility he’s been held in. I’d love for him to tell Us / the world himself via a guilty plea and attest to the court what happened and why etc. But unless he does that, I can only imagine his confessions are false for whatever reason or some sort of way for him to taunt people eg: a sick game. Mooo.

 

[statt#1]

I think there are a lot of big issues the D will struggle to get past for sure! I do think RA is the right guy (or one of the right guys if there was more than one guy). I think he is going to be quite shocked he cannot get out of this one. He's gotta be kicking himself for having tipped himself in! LMAO.

I bolded this little part, because it's something I've been thinking about. I've never seen any credible evidence there was a second, third, a group, or any other person identified on the trail that day as being in collusion with RA in these murders. Nobody has brought forth any credible evidence to place anyone else on the bridge, or at the CS, or otherwise as having been involved in these murders. There has never been another suspect named.

RA has never put forth an alibi for that day, in fact, he places himself there, yes indeed, he places himself right there, on those trails, and on that bridge. I just don't get it. If there were someone else, any wee shred of verifiable evidence there was another person involved that day, at that crime scene, to murder those two girls, why wouldn't prosecution, or defense, or FBI, or ISP, or some....any....other LE agency, come forth with that information? Reason is...there is none.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Well no, he’s said this to his family and staff at the facility he’s been held in. I’d love for him to tell Us / the world himself via a guilty plea and attest to the court what happened and why etc. But unless he does that, I can only imagine his confessions are false for whatever reason or some sort of way for him to taunt people eg: a sick game. Mooo.

Well, Yes.
He’s said it to the people closest to him. His own family. That carries a lot of weight.
Of course, you are welcome to imagine - I had thought you weren’t doing that though?

In any case, I accept his confessions as true.
I believe the jury will agree.

jmo

 

[Arkay]

Words DO matter.
Richard Allen has said over 60 times that he killed Libby and Abby.

I believe him.

jmo

I understand that there are people with the opinion that RA confessed multiple times due to a prison-animated psychosis, and they have the right to that opinion.

However, IN MY OPINION it is quite telling that RA says his confessions were inspired by his finding God, and subsequently by needing to know that his family would continue to love him despite him being the murderer of Abby and Libby.

He didn’t confess under torture, he didn’t confess because he was bored. I truly believe he confessed, again and again, because his newfound belief in God and yearning for his family’s unconditional love were of utmost importance to him.

He would know that God already knew and that his family would come to know what he’d done, and it was imperative to him that he be forgiven and still loved by those who matter to him.

He knows that Libby captured him on video. He knows his bullet was found between their bodies. He knows he has no alibi. He knows several passersby believe he is the man they spotted on the MHB. He knows he was wearing clothing that at the least were similar to the man forcing the girls down the hill.

It’s MY OPINION that these multiple confessions were from RA, trying to cleanse his soul because he needed forgiveness from God and his wife and daughter.

My opinion.

 

[FrostedGlass]

His written report is enough.
There would be no reason for DD to fabricate times .

JMO

No, but he could have mis-remembered, confused the times, tightened up a vague reply.... Gotta remember: he stood right up on stage at the PC and didn't put RA on the bridge.

 

[SouthEnd]

I understand that there are people with the opinion that RA confessed multiple times due to a prison-animated psychosis, and they have the right to that opinion.

However, IN MY OPINION it is quite telling that RA says his confessions were inspired by his finding God, and subsequently by needing to know that his family would continue to love him despite him being the murderer of Abby and Libby.

He didn’t confess under torture, he didn’t confess because he was bored. I truly believe he confessed, again and again, because his newfound belief in God and yearning for his family’s unconditional love were of utmost importance to him.

He would know that God already knew and that his family would come to know what he’d done, and it was imperative to him that he be forgiven and still loved by those who matter to him.

He knows that Libby captured him on video. He knows his bullet was found between their bodies. He knows he has no alibi. He knows several passersby believe he is the man they spotted on the MHB. He knows he was wearing clothing that at the least were similar to the man forcing the girls down the hill.

It’s MY OPINION that these multiple confessions were from RA, trying to cleanse his soul because he needed forgiveness from God and his wife and daughter.

My opinion.

Agreed. To imagine what it would take for RA to be innocent... if he left the trail by 13:30, he would have needed to have no records of using his cellphone that he himself claimed he was using. He would have needed for DD to make the most incriminating mistake when writing down his notes, without DD knowing at the time what time the girls had been murdered. He would have needed for a perpetrator that looks like his own spitting image to have been captured on that video, a man that also managed to remain unidentified for 7 years (one person, rare. Two, double the chances.) He would have needed to be on the extreme minority of pretrial detainees who decide to write confessions to the warden because of reasons. He would have needed for the perpetrator to own and use a gun that's the same make and model to the one he owns.

The combination of the above makes the possibilities of RA being not guilty astronomically low, imo, and I believe he knows it.

 

[Ravenmoon]

No, but he could have mis-remembered, confused the times, tightened up a vague reply.... Gotta remember: he stood right up on stage at the PC and didn't put RA on the bridge.

Typically, (of course I was not present) when a report is taken ( I am the child of 2 LE) the officer takes notes, and asks the reporting party to review and sign the paperwork as a true and accurate representation of what was discussed.

It would be much easier to confuse the timing had PM been used vs military time. Adding to this RAs first account spanned two hours instead of 90 minutes.

At the time of the presser , I would think that LE was focused on others that have since been ruled out. Their vision was maybe narrowed.

EBM to add, I understand the frustration with DD and the report.
But, I think that it's important to remember that this was probably so much more than the little town of Delphi had ever dealt with. The media attention, the number of tips, social media, etc.

The terrible error was quite likely to have been clerical. DD might have assumed that by taking the report and turning it over , it was vetted and LE had moved on.

AJMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Agreed. To imagine what it would take for RA to be innocent... if he left the trail by 13:30, he would have needed to have no records of using his cellphone that he himself claimed he was using. He would have needed for DD to make the most incriminating mistake when writing down his notes, without DD knowing at the time what time the girls had been murdered. He would have needed for a perpetrator that looks like his own spitting image to have been captured on that video, a man that also managed to remain unidentified for 7 years (one person, rare. Two, double the chances.) He would have needed to be on the extreme minority of pretrial detainees who decide to write confessions to the warden because of reasons. He would have needed for the perpetrator to own and use a gun that's the same make and model to the one he owns.

The combination of the above makes the possibilities of RA being not guilty astronomically low, imo, and I believe he knows it.

Adding: a car resembling his 2016 Ford Focus was seen on CCTV footage from the Hoosier Harvestore.